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***Official Match Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Saudi Sportswashing Machine 8:15pm Tuesday 2nd Dec. ***

FolkestoneSpur said:
I can't see it happening, we have the players I just don't understand why you wouldn't utilise them unless your whole philosophy is this basic brick we're seeing every game.
The Xavi situation is breaking my heart, this super talented kid has come here and basically appears surplus to requirement with Frank.
He's constantly dropping into pockets around the box and screaming for the ball and not getting it.
I really feel for him.
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I agree wholeheartedly. I think there's a bit of hiding behind the 'he needs more time to adjust' rhetoric personally. And it isn't like between Xavi, Tel, Muani and even Odobert we don't have players who can not just form connections with him, but literally know and have played with him elsewhere thus have a relationship. Still, as the wise @afsoc4life said earlier, I think I'll continue to read the room and say bravo for the point, enjoy that performance from our warrior skipper, and move onwards!
 
mudshark said:
I just think we need to own and use the middle of the park more. We need an old-fashioned midfield general in the side: a Mickey Hazard type character. We haven't had that for fuсking ages. Bentancur might be supposed to be that player, but he just isn't.
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I mean, for me, that's what this club has always stood for!!! Hoddle, Hazard, Ardiles, Gazza, Modric, Dembele, Davids, Carrick, the list goes on and on...I see Bergvall, and at 19 I see a player who can age to 24 in football maturity in months if we build with him as a key member. Archie Gray, another talent of immensity. I see Xavi as a player who can be that AM pocket-drifting creator too...
 
thfcsteff said:
OK. I think it is. We disagree.
Richarlison has played most minutes this season, ditto Kudus. The left has been a little less fixed. Two out of three. Yet our main way of getting the ball to them is to ply long balls requiring them to win Ariel duals or second balls, or to horseshoe it wide and look for crosses. It isn't even a criticism necessarily, it's a clear factual observation.
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Another clear factual observation is Richarlison hasn’t started the last 3 games! So to say he’s a settle player in attack is currently wide of mark - like his finishing 😅

So 1 out of 3.

Thwn Bergvall has just started in his attacking role since PSG. He’s both brilliant and at times terrible. He wouldn’t beating games for the top clubs would he? Love him but fans have to have patience when we’re playing these unpolished unsettled youth players.
thfcsteff said:
We do not look to play the ball to feet too often in the last third of the pitch, and we certainly don't ever look to make a slide rule pass in behind for a runner simply because the fear is that losing the ball in such an area can be dangerous. Which it can. But it then becomes the whole 'risk/reward' thing...anyway...
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I think it’s more that we aren’t able to break quickly yet. So by the time we get to the final third all teams have men back. So it’s congested and we have to go wide and look for a cross.

But to say we don’t play balls through the lines is wrong. We aspire to be more than you give us credit. I think it is mostly down us being a new inexperienced side.
 
thfcsteff said:
I mean, for me, that's what this club has always stood for!!! Hoddle, Hazard, Ardiles, Gazza, Modric, Dembele, Davids, Carrick, the list goes on and on...I see Bergvall, and at 19 I see a player who can age to 24 in football maturity in months if we build with him as a key member. Archie Gray, another talent of immensity. I see Xavi as a player who can be that AM pocket-drifting creator too...
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Fingers crossed.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Another clear factual observation is Richarlison hasn’t started the last 3 games! So to say he’s a settle player in attack is currently wide of mark - like his finishing 😅

So 1 out of 3.

Thwn Bergvall has just started in his attacking role since PSG. He’s both brilliant and at times terrible. He wouldn’t beating games for the top clubs would he? Love him but fans have to have patience when we’re playing these unpolished unsettled youth players.


I think it’s more that we aren’t able to break quickly yet. So by the time we get to the final third all teams have men back. So it’s congested and we have to go wide and look for a cross.

But to say we don’t play balls through the lines is wrong. We aspire to be more than you give us credit. I think it is mostly down us being a new inexperienced side.
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Oh boy.
Honestly, let's not even discuss the rest of your post below your 'Richarlison correction'...just take a moment and look back over the last few team selections will you?

Indeed, take a look at how many games Richy has played this season...BTW, 5 goals and 2 assists in the Prem this season, this from a player who is not being used to his best attributes
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Genuinely, how is ‘looking at the ball’ even part of this discussion when his head is locked by Burn’s arm?

I can’t get over the arrogance of it. A ref making a bad call, is a mistake. A process mess up like Liverpool had to ensure, is a mistake. Frustrating yes. This is just sheer arrogance. To have all the cameras you need, to have time, to then decide to insert yourself into this game and tell the ref to look again. It is utterly unbelievable. It’s not a mistake. It is being deliberately and confidently wrong. And it drives me nuts.
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Var has completely ruined football if im honest.
 
billyiddo said:
I think people tend to get bogged down in the overarching narrative sometimes when it comes to matches (it's hard not to) - as you say if we go in to this game in a better place the performance would be viewed much more positively
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I thought it would be viewed more positively because we have been poor? Confidence must be fairly low, especially after the battering from our fans. Then to go to St James park and comeback twice, especially after a ridiculous penalty decision? Can only be looked at positively, you have to fight your way out of trouble sometimes and we certainly did that yesterday....
 
thfcsteff said:
Oh boy.
Honestly, let's not even discuss the rest of your post below your 'Richarlison correction'...just take a moment and look back over the last few team selections will you?

Indeed, take a look at how many games Richy has played this season...BTW, 5 goals and 2 assists in the Prem this season, this from a player who is not being used to his best attributes
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Has he started the last few games? If not you can’t claim he’s a settled player in attack.
 
Daisuk said:
It was far from good, but in comparison to the brick we've been served up this season, it was decent.
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Think the biggest difference between this game and the Fulham game was that while in both games the other team was better from the off Fulham punished us twice and Saudi Sportswashing Machine didn't.

Had Saudi Sportswashing Machine scored in that opening 25-30 minute period where they were clearly on top I think it ends up as a repeat of the Fulham game.

We're very dependent on getting through that opening 20-30 minutes without conceding when teams press us high from the off because we struggle so much with ball progression when they do that. When we're able to sustain attacks and progress the ball we see that we have quality to do stuff.

But good fight and mentality in that second half and good signs towards the end of the first half when they couldn't press as much.
thfcsteff said:
I mean, for me, that's what this club has always stood for!!! Hoddle, Hazard, Ardiles, Gazza, Modric, Dembele, Davids, Carrick, the list goes on and on...I see Bergvall, and at 19 I see a player who can age to 24 in football maturity in months if we build with him as a key member. Archie Gray, another talent of immensity. I see Xavi as a player who can be that AM pocket-drifting creator too...
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We're about a third of the way through the season. Gray and Bergvall are about as far from being integrated into deeper midfield roles as they were when the season started.

Said it before, but putting Sarr in for Palhinha or Bentancur as one of the deep two does very little for our ball progression. And if he doesn't have the freedom to make those big runs ahead of the ball he's just another DM who is uncomfortable under pressure. Less comfortable under pressure than Bentancur.

We have options. Those two younger players. Inverting the full backs, we know they can do it. Have Bergvall drop drop in buildup if he plays as a 10 and Sarr to push up. Or we can just keep booting the ball in the general direction of Kudus and hope he does brilliantly.
 
thfcsteff said:
I hope we make a highlight reel this season of how many times we've been grappled to the floor by a defender who actually starts by looking in the opposite direction to where the corner is coming from.
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This is if for me.

We were all screaming when the same challenge happened to us against West Ham.

I think it’s a pen, I think it should always be a pen.
 
I would genuinely love Spurs to make a public statement of discontent about the performance of PGMOL some time in the second half of this season. We should build a season's dossier of things that have happened and make a really intelligent statement based on the laws using data. We should hire or leverage an existing analyst to start measuring refereeing against the pure laws of the game and make this data public.

PGMOL has now been the scourge of football for 5-10 years. They are absolutely relentless in their incompetence and it is nothing to do with this great technology we've given them to make their job easier. It is now got to the point that the refereeing is changing the entire tactics in the league. The managers have adapted to the poor officiating.
 
Baleforce said:
This is if for me.

We were all screaming when the same challenge happened to us against West Ham.

I think it’s a pen, I think it should always be a pen.
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I agree, if holding at a corner is a penalty then great - it will immediately cut out this rugby style nonsense that seems to have started at every corner. But there are have been countless instances this season where the exact incident involving Bents and Burn have not been given as penalties and I strongly suspect there will be similar this evening which also won't be given. So zero consistency and that what infuriates and turns me off the game
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
What one was that, can’t think of a similar incident in that game?
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I think it was VDV, I remember it clearly, but it’s not in the PL official highlights package.

treepits said:
I agree, if holding at a corner is a penalty then great - it will immediately cut out this rugby style nonsense that seems to have started at every corner. But there are have been countless instances this season where the exact incident involving Bents and Burn have not been given as penalties and I strongly suspect there will be similar this evening which also won't be given. So zero consistency and that what infuriates and turns me off the game
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As the laws are written it’s a foul. So apply the laws as written.
 
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