Richarlison

[harr1984]

You're right I did. I used 'elite' erroneously in the context of our conversation, which as I understood it was essentially to state world class/top top strikers from others. I have amended the post to be more specific in that regard. Defoe and Keane were absolutely elite strikers; they were just below world class IMO, albeit Defoe's numbers are great and place him highly.

I must say, I think I am guilty of underrating Defoe in the past. I always remember him fondly as a striker who scored a good amount of goals and overall a good player. But not long ago I watched some Spurs seasons videos of the time of him Keane and Kanoute etc were around, seeing all the goals and highlights throughout those seasons.

He was actually brilliant, he scored every type of goal and the way he could strike a ball really was something. But more than that, he was actually intelligent and not as greedy as I saw some people maintain he was at the time - he actually created a lot of chances with his passing etc and all round he was a better footballer than I recall and gave him credit for. He was actually another striker that was more than just about goal stats, but will never be remembered as such from the majority unfortunately.....

 

[thfcsteff]

Defoe only hit 20 league goals once didn't he? I wouldn't put him in the top bracket

He was a one in every 2.5 games consistently, so I think he deserves a place at the bracket just below our Lewandoskis and Canes?

 

[Lemonade Money]

Defoe only hit 20 league goals once didn't he? I wouldn't put him in the top bracket

Yeah, not top bracket, but you could say the same for Berbatov, and l would put him top bracket.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

I must say, I think I am guilty of underrating Defoe in the past. I always remember him fondly as a striker who scored a good amount of goals and overall a good player. But not long ago I watched some Spurs seasons videos of the time of him Keane and Kanoute etc were around, seeing all the goals and highlights throughout those seasons.

He was actually brilliant, he scored every type of goal and the way he could strike a ball really was something. But more than that, he was actually intelligent and not as greedy as I saw some people maintain he was at the time - he actually created a lot of chances with his passing etc and all round he was a better footballer than I recall and gave him credit for. He was actually another striker that was more than just about goal stats, but will never be remembered as such from the majority unfortunately.....

I saw his overhead kick again recently, great goal.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

There’s new cash being promised?

Probably be Matty Cash as backup LB....

That'll cheer everyone up.

 

[Finney Is Back]

You said "they were not above defoe and keane more part of the circle".
If it's goals alone then clive allen.

Richarlison against defoe and keane comparrison? If richarlison can stay fit i think he's better. As a central striker on their own, i think (full season, fully fit) richarlison would do better for the team than keane or defoe would.

I'd prefer an ibrahimovich though.

Richarlison isn't fit to lace Robbie Keane's boots. Keane scored goals at a rate better than 1 in 2 for Spurs. Those are elite numbers. I wouldn't back Richarlison to outscore Keane in any system.

 

[Lilbaz]

Richarlison isn't fit to lace Robbie Keane's boots. Keane scored goals at a rate better than 1 in 2 for Spurs. Those are elite numbers. I wouldn't back Richarlison to outscore Keane in any system.

Think keane is the better player. Just don't think he'd do well as a lone striker.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

His biggest issue as a striker was an inability to stay onside. At times it was infuriating.

 

[Bishop]

I wouldn

He was a one in every 2.5 games consistently, so I think he deserves a place at the bracket just below our Lewandoskis and Canes?

I can't say I really agree with your rankings. Defoe and Keane were a rung below Berbatov and Berbatov himself was at least a rung below Lewa and Kane.

I think you allude to the idea of classiness not necessarily making a better striker but I'd argue that improved touch, control and flair are what elevates a player to that higher level and what allows them the time and the space to work in the most difficult circumstances.

It's not always just about the number of goals scored and even in that respect neither Keane nor Defoe weren't elite. On average 13-15 goal season supports that. I don't know if I'd even call Berbatov elite but he's the closest of those names. Also there is a reason Fergie came in for Berbatov but was never interested in Defoe.

 

[braineclipse]

By all means use whatever standard makes sense to you but it very much looks like for many fans there is one standard for those that play for us and another for those that don't. The ones that play for us seem to get a bonus 5 point starting point. I suppose you could boil it down to it simplest form, if I watched that player for another team playing the way they do here would I want them at Spurs.

In terms of comparable players for Richy, I'd say the likes of Wissa Solanke, Wissa, Nunez and Matata. All players who can have a good day, and even a very good day but they are also players lacking in some critical areas to make them a quality well rounded performer.

I know I have higher standards than most but that's mainly because I actually want to win and I see what is required and what areas need improving on to get to that level. A player like Richy 3 years in isn't going to achieve it.

Everyone wants to actually win.

You're obviously also free to use whatever standard you want. But not all conversations on here are based around if a player is good enough for where we want to be. You're seemingly reading praise of him as if that means people wouldn't want to see us upgrade on him if possible.

Decent comparisons for level I think. Several players there who have been at least valuable squad players when teams have won stuff, including Richarlison.

 

[parklane1]

its not just about one game

fistly he has been injured a lot
then when he is back, he is performing well every one in three games

imagine if we had a striker that is capable of playing well say 80% of games or doing poorly in 1/5 games.
imagine also a challenger who can rotate with and younger with similar consistency

don't you think we would do much better?

My post is not about if we could get better then him, more that there are those who slag him off at EVERY opportunity they get. That is the thing i dislike about some of our fans is the abuse that some of the players have faced. Its not so bad on the forums as i would suggest most players do not spend that much time reading them.

But as a match going fan i have heard shocking abuse to a certain number of our players over the years from the mouthbreathers among our match going fans . Sanchez, Richy the list goes on. I have no problem with any fan that does not rate a certain player after all its all about o pinions but there SHOULD be a limit to that abuse IMO.

If any player wears our shirt they should be supported while they are doing so but it seems that we have a section of fans both match going and on the web who insist of abusing those players. Sad really and i am sure there will be some who disagree with my opinions on it.

 

[braineclipse]

My post is not about if we could get better then him, more that there are those who slag him off at EVERY opportunity they get. That is the thing i dislike about some of our fans is the abuse that some of the players have faced. Its not so bad on the forums as i would suggest most players do not spend that much time reading them.

But as a match going fan i have heard shocking abuse to a certain number of our players over the years from the mouthbreathers among our match going fans . Sanchez, Richy the list goes on. I have no problem with any fan that does not rate a certain player after all its all about o pinions but there SHOULD be a limit to that abuse IMO.

If any player wears our shirt they should be supported while they are doing so but it seems that we have a section of fans both match going and on the web who insist of abusing those players. Sad really and i am sure there will be some who disagree with my opinions on it.

I'd pers be surprised if there's any real number of Spurs fans that don't think we could upgrade on Richarlison and should at some point if we can.

As the above discussions show we've seen some fantastic strikers here, Richarlison clearly isn't at that level.

I just don't think it's a point worth bringing up much, because I assume most are in full agreement and we're not in a transfer window.

 

[Muttley]

I wouldn

I can't say I really agree with your rankings. Defoe and Keane were a rung below Berbatov and Berbatov himself was at least a rung below Lewa and Kane.

I think you allude to the idea of classiness not necessarily making a better striker but I'd argue that improved touch, control and flair are what elevates a player to that higher level and what allows them the time and the space to work in the most difficult circumstances.

It's not always just about the number of goals scored and even in that respect neither Keane nor Defoe weren't elite. On average 13-15 goal season supports that. I don't know if I'd even call Berbatov elite but he's the closest of those names. Also there is a reason Fergie came in for Berbatov but was never interested in Defoe.

Let me stack rank the pure strikers first and then I'll try and think about where the elite line is. I'm too young to include Greaves.

Kane
Klinsmann / Lineker
Sheringham / Berbatov
Keane / Defoe
Allen
Adebayor / Kanoute

Where I'm struggling is where to place Archibald and Falco, perhaps even Crooks. These guys were hitting between 20 and 30 goals in some seasons in the eighties. I was just a little too young to form a big opinion on them.

As for the Keane vs Defoe debate, I would have put Defoe with Berba over Keane. However, if we'd have had a Kane back in those times then I'd have paired Keane with Harry. I was marginally in favour of Defoe as he was the best speculator in the league. He never stopped finding positions to score goals from. His team mates didn't always find him though. He could have had way more goals in a better side.

A Berbatov / Kane partnership would have been stunning but only early early to mid career Kane. I could not have 2 lazy wotsits up front at the same time.

 

[thfcsteff]

Let me stack rank the pure strikers first and then I'll try and think about where the elite line is. I'm too young to include Greaves.

Kane
Klinsmann / Lineker
Sheringham / Berbatov
Keane / Defoe
Allen
Adebayor / Kanoute

Where I'm struggling is where to place Archibald and Falco, perhaps even Crooks. These guys were hitting between 20 and 30 goals in some seasons in the eighties. I was just a little too young to form a big opinion on them.

As for the Keane vs Defoe debate, I would have put Defoe with Berba over Keane. However, if we'd have had a Kane back in those times then I'd have paired Keane with Harry. I was marginally in favour of Defoe as he was the best speculator in the league. He never stopped finding positions to score goals from. His team mates didn't always find him though. He could have had way more goals in a better side.

A Berbatov / Kane partnership would have been stunning but only early early to mid career Kane. I could not have 2 lazy wotsits up front at the same time.

Givem that Archie and Crooksie were players I saw week in week out, consider me appalled I did not include them. And Falco too! Thanks

 

[thfcsteff]

I wouldn

I can't say I really agree with your rankings. Defoe and Keane were a rung below Berbatov and Berbatov himself was at least a rung below Lewa and Kane.

I think you allude to the idea of classiness not necessarily making a better striker but I'd argue that improved touch, control and flair are what elevates a player to that higher level and what allows them the time and the space to work in the most difficult circumstances.

It's not always just about the number of goals scored and even in that respect neither Keane nor Defoe weren't elite. On average 13-15 goal season supports that. I don't know if I'd even call Berbatov elite but he's the closest of those names. Also there is a reason Fergie came in for Berbatov but was never interested in Defoe

You are wrong with what you think I am alluding to, in fact that 'allusion' is absurd! I cannot be any clearer as to what I was trying to say. My main regret in these exchanges is forgetting to list Archie, Crooks and Falco: unforgiveable really!

 

[thfcsteff]

My post is not about if we could get better then him, more that there are those who slag him off at EVERY opportunity they get. That is the thing i dislike about some of our fans is the abuse that some of the players have faced. Its not so bad on the forums as i would suggest most players do not spend that much time reading them.

But as a match going fan i have heard shocking abuse to a certain number of our players over the years from the mouthbreathers among our match going fans . Sanchez, Richy the list goes on. I have no problem with any fan that does not rate a certain player after all its all about o pinions but there SHOULD be a limit to that abuse IMO.

If any player wears our shirt they should be supported while they are doing so but it seems that we have a section of fans both match going and on the web who insist of abusing those players. Sad really and i am sure there will be some who disagree with my opinions on it.

On the money!

 

[glasgowspur]

Let me stack rank the pure strikers first and then I'll try and think about where the elite line is. I'm too young to include Greaves.

Kane
Klinsmann / Lineker
Sheringham / Berbatov
Keane / Defoe
Allen
Adebayor / Kanoute

Where I'm struggling is where to place Archibald and Falco, perhaps even Crooks. These guys were hitting between 20 and 30 goals in some seasons in the eighties. I was just a little too young to form a big opinion on them.

As for the Keane vs Defoe debate, I would have put Defoe with Berba over Keane. However, if we'd have had a Kane back in those times then I'd have paired Keane with Harry. I was marginally in favour of Defoe as he was the best speculator in the league. He never stopped finding positions to score goals from. His team mates didn't always find him though. He could have had way more goals in a better side.

A Berbatov / Kane partnership would have been stunning but only early early to mid career Kane. I could not have 2 lazy wotsits up front at the same time.

Archibald comes behind kane, klinsman and Sheringham, level with berba and ahead of the rest.
Crooks, Allen, Keane and defoe I have next.
Falco, then kanoute with ade bringing up the rear.