Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Silly McSilly Face]

Just economically sanction Israel until they retreat to 1967 borders.

Pretty much the same approach as to Russia, except China wont prop them up.

The yanks need to be on board with that though

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Their value will go down until they reach break even point for council house price levels, which is the design

But that would devalue everyone's property. And what would happen if the start of that was devalued rental properties is that people would just buy them off the landlords selling up to live in. And you'd just get a mass reduction in available rental properties.

 

[Gutter Boy]

But that would devalue everyone's property.

Again, that's the point. Make housing affordable. Bring it back to is x3 ave salary historic level

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Again, that's the point. Make housing affordable. Bring it back to is x3 ave salary historic level

If my property devalued to that point i'd be f*cked.

 

[Gutter Boy]

If my property devalued to that point i'd be f*cked.

A few groups that had overstretched on mortgages might struggle if they needed to sell before they paid the mortgage off. But it would also fix the housing crises and improve lives for generations to come

 

[kb 1984]

If my property devalued to that point i'd be f*cked.

No you wouldn't being fudged is sleeping in a doorway under a cupboard box wondering where your next meal is coming from.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

If my property devalued to that point i'd be f*cked.

Technically you wouldn't be, the banks would be. But even then they wouldn't be if you continue to service the loan.

High interest rates is what would fudge everything.....even the rise to 5-6% caused everyone to brick the bed.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

But that would devalue everyone's property. And what would happen if the start of that was devalued rental properties is that people would just buy them off the landlords selling up to live in. And you'd just get a mass reduction in available rental properties.

Isnt it vaguely a zero sum game though?
You're renting, owning or living with mum

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Technically you wouldn't be, the banks would be. But even then they wouldn't be if you continue to service the loan.

High interest rates is what would fudge everything.....even the rise to 5-6% caused everyone to brick the bed.

If the banks are f*cked - everyone is f*cked.

And if there was a mass devaluing of property the banks would struggle even if people maintained the loan as banks would not be able to borrow against the value of their safest assets in order to meet liabilities.

It would grind the entire economy to a halt like what happened in the financial crash. Which was caused basically by a housing bubble popping in the US.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

No you wouldn't being fudged is sleeping in a doorway under a cupboard box wondering where your next meal is coming from.

Being f*cked is relative. Something sometimes politicians forget. Liz Truss didn't f*ck people in your sense, but lots of people felt absoluteky f*cked.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

A few groups that had overstretched on mortgages might struggle if they needed to sell before they paid the mortgage off. But it would also fix the housing crises and improve lives for generations to come

A few groups that over stretched on mortgages? I.e. pretty much most people. Most people can't afford more than a 10-15% deposit and at a repayment term of over 20 years. So tonnes of people are sat there on over 80% LTV.

The other thing that will happen though is if the banks know the government's policy is to devalue property prices the max LTV they will lend at will reduce rapidly. If property prices are predicted to drop by 20% over 10 years, the maximum a bank will lend will be 70% of the current value of a property- so as I say you'd basically f*ck the entire system.

Yes, you'd return rental prices back to a post-war era, but you'd also return property ownership to largely being a preserve of the privileged.

 

[Rorschach]

The PLO is a terrorist organisation, might as well cut out the middle man and do a deal with Hamas.

The IDF and the Israeli goverment are a far worse terrorist organisation.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

If the banks are f*cked - everyone is f*cked.

And if there was a mass devaluing of property the banks would struggle even if people maintained the loan as banks would not be able to borrow against the value of their safest assets in order to meet liabilities.

It would grind the entire economy to a halt like what happened in the financial crash. Which was caused basically by a housing bubble popping in the US.

Yes I know that.....and the banks very much let the powers that be know that as well. Even when the banks behave stupidly, the governments bend to their will. The government are their puppets now. (I think 2008 rubber stamped that)

I think Gutterboy is declaring what he sees as the end point. ie back to a fair balance of affordability and value.
Of course, what has happened through government policy and banking economic policy is for the situation to run away with itself (and much like other crises we face eg water), to such an extent that unwinding it is complicated and requires delicate skill as not to cause a number of related crises.
Property pretty much supported the 'feel good' vibes of the middle classes, thru BTL and MEW as prices just kept heading north supported by government schemes, artificially low interest rates and longer term mortgages.
The result of that is what we see now. Affordability problems and a non functioning property ladder/market

Roof over your head is ANOTHER essential. An essential that has been fudged around with for massive wealth gains. And as usual the massive wealth gainers only ever want to be on the winning side of the bet.

 

[Muttley]

The point of rent caps is to make renting unprofitable for the private sector, so it reverts to the public sector. The 1920s one is what freed up much of the housing stock to enable the creation of council housing. The point now would be to engineer a similar thing, to stop it being an attractive investment
[/QUOTE]

Rent isn't about the value of the property though as the value of the property is ultimately what people are willing to pay for it or how much a bank values it as security for a loan. Lots of rental properties are in areas that are less desirable and so values are depressed but the maintenance of the property doesnt reduce and from my experience the maintenance costs for a rental property as a landlord are far higher than the maintenance costs of your own home.

For example:
- You have to get an annual gas safety check done.
- You have to have fire extinguishers and blankets and annual smoke alarm tests
- new safety regulations came in for rental properties that said hand rails had to be fitted to all stair cases so I had to get them fitted for cost of about £650
- Tenant complained about damp so had damp surveyor go out at cost of £300 for report. Turns out it was condensation caused by tenant taping over the trickle vents in all the windows and theyd also fired expandable foam into all the air bricks as they didn't want to use the central heating in winter and were trying to get of any draft.
- Cost me £500 to have the air bricks unblocked. They then disputed their bond not being returned and the tribunal ruled that I could only deduct the £500 repair cost from the bond and not the £300 survey fee...I was like HOW? If they hadn't done that I wouldnt have had to get the damp surveyor in the first place?
- Another tenant moved out and left a cracked window and claimed it cracked in the frost. Again tribunal said I couldnt deduct from bond.
So rent has to account for the maintenance of the property not the market value.

It's a great conversation. I've experienced most of those costs. I've had the situation where tenants won't open windows all year round and I've had to pay for someone to clean all the damp around the windows. Mould toxins are incredibly harmful and I took it as my duty of care to resolve even though it was the tenant creating the problem. I also had to find £800 at 24 hrs notice to have a new garage door fitted as another example. I had one devious tenant who closed the blinds because the littlun had been pulling them out the slats. When the family left, the professional inventory clerk that I have to pay for as a landlord missed this and other items. I made them pay for the repairs out of the deposit.

I do think GB is making good points though. The more I think about this, the more I believe that 25% mandatory deposits on buy-to-lets just isn't high enough. They should probably make it in the 50-75% region for new landlords, both private and public. That removes the requirement for a landlord to drive up the rents because they are trying to cover 75% debt at over 4% interest rates and recover all the setup and running costs like stamp duty and what we discussed above. Perhaps they should introduce a rule whereby you can only have a buy to let if your own mortgage is clear. That would put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Not sure I have the right answers, but I bet there are still dials the government can turn to drive change in this area. I hope they do. I was always supportive even when it was negatively impacting me. I just hope they find the quid-pro-quo though as in my case the landlord has been shat on because the system doesn't get supported when tenants are the problem. It is mostly that way round.