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Lookman linked????

If we don't get an option left, I hope Frank rotates Johnson and Odebert a lot (including at HT if it is one of those games where BJ isn't having any impact. I'm starting to wonder if he could play behind or alongside Solanke or Richarlison as a poacher.
 
Mosquito_Coasting said:
If we don't get an option left, I hope Frank rotates Johnson and Odebert a lot (including at HT if it is one of those games where BJ isn't having any impact. I'm starting to wonder if he could play behind or alongside Solanke or Richarlison as a poacher.
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Simons can also play on the left.

That could perhaps also give us enough overall ball progression and creativity to make Johnson a viable option in the centre as you say. Bit of a Dele role.
 
braineclipse said:
Simons can also play on the left.

That could perhaps also give us enough overall ball progression and creativity to make Johnson a viable option in the centre as you say. Bit of a Dele role.
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So play a 2 man midfield of say Paulinho and Bent/Sarr just to get Johnson on the pitch? You must want to see our midfield dominated every game with no good ball progression. 😂😂

Johnson is a passenger and anytime we play him it will be like playing with a man down unless we fashion a chance for him. A 2 man midfield in today's PL is a horrible idea and one that will just get you dominated match after match in that area as we have already seen under Conte. This time we don't have a virtuoso striker cum playmaker in Kane to drag the team forward.
 
Bishop said:
So play a 2 man midfield of say Paulinho and Bent/Sarr just to get Johnson on the pitch? You must want to see our midfield dominated every game with no good ball progression. 😂😂

Johnson is a passenger and anytime we play him it will be like playing with a man down unless we fashion a chance for him. A 2 man midfield in today's PL is a horrible idea and one that will just get you dominated match after match in that area as we have already seen under Conte. This time we don't have a virtuoso striker cum playmaker in Kane to drag the team forward.
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We had a 3 man midfield that was dominated because they were technically poor and not brave with the passing
 
Bedfordspurs said:
We had a 3 man midfield that was dominated because they were technically poor and not brave with the passing
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Aye, now imagine that game with just a 2 man midfield? 😂😂😂

This is why rather than doubling down on the spread of poor technique in the team we need to lessen it. We don't need to shoehorn Johnson in the team, we need to get him bloody out of it, same with Richy.

I think at times a lot here don't watch games outside of Spurs because these conversations are mad, there's no way you watch say Liverpool Vs Arsenal yesterday (as stodgy a game as it was) and think that we are anywhere near close. We are so lacking in technique, control, composure etc. the quality of Liverpool's deep passing almost brought a tear to my eyes. 😅😂
 
Bishop said:
Aye, now imagine that game with just a 2 man midfield? 😂😂😂

This is why rather than doubling down on the spread of poor technique in the team we need to lessen it. We don't need to shoehorn Johnson in the team, we need to get him bloody out of it, same with Richy.

I think at times a lot here don't watch games outside of Spurs because these conversations are mad, there's no way you watch say Liverpool Vs Arsenal yesterday (as stodgy a game as it was) and think that we are anywhere near close. We are so lacking in technique, control, composure etc. the quality of Liverpool's deep passing almost brought a tear to my eyes. 😅😂
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You need those players across the board
The issue is our best available passers right now are our RCB and out right back
The best player at keeping the ball is our RW
That’s incredibly lop sided
Add in that Johnson and Richy as the other attackers don’t keep the ball (their strength is one touch actions)
And then that CM trio who don’t pass well enough and it’s a problem
We can outwork teams but until players return or bed in (xavi) it’s not going to go away against aggressive sides
 
Bedfordspurs said:
You need those players across the board
The issue is our best available passers right now are our RCB and out right back
The best player at keeping the ball is our RW
That’s incredibly lop sided
Add in that Johnson and Richy as the other attackers don’t keep the ball (their strength is one touch actions)
And then that CM trio who don’t pass well enough and it’s a problem
We can outwork teams but until players return or bed in (xavi) it’s not going to go away against aggressive sides
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This is why when ppl say we have a very good side I just don't understand what they are watching. It's functional, it will get some good results but plenty of poor ones because the basic technical level is lacking in too many areas.
 
Bishop said:
This is why when ppl say we have a very good side I just don't understand what they are watching. It's functional, it will get some good results but plenty of poor ones because the basic technical level is lacking in too many areas.
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It’s a good side
It’s not a great side
The drop from losing certain key players is still too much
But you don’t fix everything quickly and Frank needs time with his team

As an aside… I think Muani may be an option again now because Juve are signing Opienda from Leipzig
 
Bedfordspurs said:
You need those players across the board
The issue is our best available passers right now are our RCB and out right back
The best player at keeping the ball is our RW
That’s incredibly lop sided
Add in that Johnson and Richy as the other attackers don’t keep the ball (their strength is one touch actions)
And then that CM trio who don’t pass well enough and it’s a problem
We can outwork teams but until players return or bed in (xavi) it’s not going to go away against aggressive sides
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Agree. It was noticeable that Bournemouth forced Vicario to play out to Van de Ven, whose primary options were Spence and Johnson to whom they stayed touch tight. That forced him to play longer to Richarlison who was bullied out of it, or inside to Palhinha, who generally played it back to Vicario. Bentancur dropped deeper to pick it up eventually but to no great effect.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It’s a good side
It’s not a great side
The drop from losing certain key players is still too much
But you don’t fix everything quickly and Frank needs time with his team

As an aside… I think Muani may be an option again now because Juve are signing Opienda from Leipzig
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I'd happily take Muani, he's not perfect but he does everything we need and to a higher and more consistent standard than the current options we have.

I think Frank has similar ideas regarding squad depth and quality so I think given time the technical quality profile of the squad will improve.
 
Bishop said:
So play a 2 man midfield of say Paulinho and Bent/Sarr just to get Johnson on the pitch? You must want to see our midfield dominated every game with no good ball progression. 😂😂

Johnson is a passenger and anytime we play him it will be like playing with a man down unless we fashion a chance for him. A 2 man midfield in today's PL is a horrible idea and one that will just get you dominated match after match in that area as we have already seen under Conte. This time we don't have a virtuoso striker cum playmaker in Kane to drag the team forward.
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I literally wrote "could perhaps" and wrote about ball progression from Simons on the left (in addition to Kudus on the right) in my post.

I wouldn't see it as a 2 man midfield, more a 4-2-3-1, I even referenced the role Dele played in my post.

I want at least two good ball progressers in the midfield and front line. Ideally more, but two is a lot better than one. I don't think one of them has to play centrally, particularly if one of the wide players also drifts inside.

All of that was said as a potential option, something that "could perhaps" give us enough ball progression. I think that could be true in some games and some times.
 
braineclipse said:
I literally wrote "could perhaps" and wrote about ball progression from Simons on the left (in addition to Kudus on the right) in my post.

I wouldn't see it as a 2 man midfield, more a 4-2-3-1, I even referenced the role Dele played in my post.

I want at least two good ball progressers in the midfield and front line. Ideally more, but two is a lot better than one. I don't think one of them has to play centrally, particularly if one of the wide players also drifts inside.

All of that was said as a potential option, something that "could perhaps" give us enough ball progression. I think that could be true in some games and some times.
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Sure but we have to be practical. If he's playing as a shadow striker and we have Simons on the left and Kudus on the right it means we have to have one less player in the middle as Johnson is taking that space. There are a finite number of players we are able to play. If Johnson plays someone else has to sit on the bench.

A 4231 is exactly the shape I described, if Johnson is one of the 3 specifically the point of the 3 it means there are only 2 in midfield. There's no way around that. Dele did ghost in but he also was a midfielder, he contributed somewhat to the midfield in a way Johnson can not.
 
Bishop said:
Sure but we have to be practical. If he's playing as a shadow striker and we have Simons on the left and Kudus on the right it means we have to have one less player in the middle as Johnson is taking that space. There are a finite number of players we are able to play. If Johnson plays someone else has to sit on the bench.

A 4231 is exactly the shape I described, if Johnson is one of the 3 specifically the point of the 3 it means there are only 2 in midfield. There's no way around that. Dele did ghost in but he also was a midfielder, he contributed somewhat to the midfield in a way Johnson can not.
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I want at least two good ball progressers in those midfield or attacking areas.

If it's Simons in the 10 and Kudus on the right or one either side I don't really mind that much. Probably depends more on the opposition?

Seems your main argument is "Johnson not good enough"?

You can describe a 4-2-3-1 as a 2 man midfield if you want... Sure. To me that's not the same as a Conte 2 man midfield or a classic 4-4-2 two man midfield.
 
braineclipse said:
I want at least two good ball progressers in those midfield or attacking areas.

If it's Simons in the 10 and Kudus on the right or one either side I don't really mind that much. Probably depends more on the opposition?

Seems your main argument is "Johnson not good enough"?

You can describe a 4-2-3-1 as a 2 man midfield if you want... Sure. To me that's not the same as a Conte 2 man midfield or a classic 4-4-2 two man midfield.
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We’re really lacking those passers in the squad
It’s very very samey in midfield for sure
 
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