Daniel Levy - Chairman

[SpurMeUp]

I'm not suggesting we go over the manager's head to sign anyone, no where did I say that.

You said we shouldn't overpay for players. So even if the manger wants that player?

First things first the players are able to sign are limited by the appeal of the club and large part of that is by the wages we are prepared to offer. So Frank might want a Rodrygo, but we would never pay the wages that might entice him to join just as a silly example.

But that is the same for all but a handful of clubs. That is where the unrealistic expectations come in. Even if you throw money at a signing like this, City or someone else has a bigger draw. So moaning about it, just makes you look like a kid. We have to improve using players we can sign.

In that instance Frank would then need to look at an alternative, an alternative who might not have the same qualities as the first choice.

In your second point, yup I never complained about signing Ndombele and I never will. He was exactly the time of signing we SHOULD be making. That it didn't work is not something I would criticism the club, Levy, a scouts etc for. brick happens.

However if we were truly paying him 200k a week than that quite a ridiculous wage given his prior standing in the game.

But you wanted him. Just-get-it-done!!! Or not?

He's a relatively poorer player compared to other players earning 200k pw. It would be the reason why we couldn't move him on despite his massive potential, but really I'm talking more about players like Richy. Someone we knew was substandard before we bought him so no hindsight involved.

Ange wanted him. You just said you wouldnt go above the mangers head - no you're saying you would?

He's paid for too much money for him to move in to the level club he actually belongs at ie. Sunderland, Everton or Fulham. If you even compare GLC and Ndombele because they were talented players and still rated we struggled to sell but we were able to get them loans. We can't even get Richy out in loan because he's relatively overpaid for his substandard ability.

Richarlison is probably harder to shift because of his injury record - which is also probably the reason we want to shift him!

 

[Grays_1890]

Not trying to shut it down. I debated with you back and forth and never called you a cult member. I was responding to Diamond lights when I said that, it's a general observation.

About people on this conversation.......its comes over as a cheap dig to belittle people but so be it

 

[Grays_1890]

You said we shouldn't overpay for players. So even if the manger wants that player?


But that is the same for all but a handful of clubs. That is where the unrealistic expectations come in. Even if you throw money at a signing like this, City or someone else has a bigger draw. So moaning about it, just makes you look like a kid. We have to improve using players we can sign.

But you wanted him. Just-get-it-done!!! Or not?

Ange wanted him. You just said you wouldnt go above the mangers head - no you're saying you would?

Richarlison is probably harder to shift because of his injury record - which is also probably the reason we want to shift him!

THe idea that money is also a cure all is a lie, I don't deny it helps and the trends are there for those that have won things (I actually think Liverpool buck the trend and do it sensibly).

But for all the kings ransom Arsenal have spent and the PSR disaster at Villa, they have one Covid cup between them over the last 5/6 years.........hardly a great advert for pushing the boundaries or success being dependant on one thing

 

[Grays_1890]

Glad someone gets it, nail on head.

We're on a football forum and i'm genuinely seeing posts stating the importance of running a business and completely oblivious that there is a football team behind this and we're on a football forum. everyone has started to become ENIC's Financial Team to look and support why we cannot spend more money on the team and defend what is quite literally, indefensible.

I have pointed out, not based on opinion, but on pure fact, we spend far less on wages than other teams and certainly the teams we are meant to be competing with. and people defend that position because it's "how to run a company". As i keep saying, you can increase wages by 10% and still be behind literally ALL of the big 6.

Fanbase has been gaslit into believing "this is the way" when in reality, it's really norm. We are way outside the PL "Norm" of spends on wages, and despite being able to spend more, we put than money into hotels, F1, NFL etc and not into the football team. The evidence is there. Quite why folks feel the need to avoid the literal evidence in front of their eyes to defend the ownership is insane.

Its a football forum for a team people have love and interest in are you really saying that you are shocked that people might have a different view to you and talk in different terms and nuances? Come on now

The football finances at Spurs are probably the biggest talked about subject in and away from the club

 

[SirPercyHotspur]

. We are way outside the PL "Norm" of spends on wages, and despite being able to spend more, we put than money into hotels, F1, NFL etc and not into the football team. The evidence is there. Quite why folks feel the need to avoid the literal evidence in front of their eyes to defend the ownership is insane.

Is that English.
Very little has been spent on the hotel, a lot of the foundations , car park and basement were constructed during the stadium build , in the last financials 3 million was spent on more piling work for the foundations, nothing above ground has yet been built, haven't even named a constructor yet to build the thing.
What money do we put into F1? should think all the equipment is supplied by F1 and we take a percentage of the ticket money, doubt F1 signed up if they weren't making the lions share of money.
Same with NFL , obviously providing the pitch and dressing rooms cost money to install as part of stadium cost but we are making money back now from rental and catering sales . Putting in the sliding pitch to enable NFL has the added bonus of being able to stage concerts and other events on the hard surface , all these other events have provided a large amount of income far and above what NFL is bringing in , whether it's being invested in the men and women squads is another matter.

 

[SpurMeUp]

THe idea that money is also a cure all is a lie, I don't deny it helps and the trends are there for those that have won things (I actually think Liverpool buck the trend and do it sensibly).

But for all the kings ransom Arsenal have spent and the PSR disaster at Villa, they have one Covid cup between them over the last 5/6 years.........hardly a great advert for pushing the boundaries

Pool are the exception to the rule. And once you're establish in the drivers seat it all becomes a lot easier. You can sell players for more as champions, you can attract players who'll come to you over other clubs helping your negotiating position. They'll even accept lower wages possibly to join a winning team.

I don't think there is another club who've sold and ballanced their transfers as well as pool recently. Brighton probably make a good case, but they've only recently finished higher up the table.

 

[Bishop]

You said we shouldn't overpay for players. So even if the manger wants that player?


But that is the same for all but a handful of clubs. That is where the unrealistic expectations come in. Even if you throw money at a signing like this, City or someone else has a bigger draw. So moaning about it, just makes you look like a kid. We have to improve using players we can sign.

But you wanted him. Just-get-it-done!!! Or not?

You love putting words into other people's mouths. I've never uttered the words or even the sentiments "just get it done" please if you want to have this conversation actually comment on things you've seen me say otherwise its pointless. I don't really have the energy to rebut claims I never even made.

Ange wanted him. You just said you wouldnt go above the mangers head - no you're saying you would?

Richarlison is probably harder to shift because of his injury record - which is also probably the reason we want to shift him!

You said we shouldn't overpay for players. So even if the manger wants that player?

Dude taking to you is painful you're so all over the place. I said overpaying for relatively poorer players. The example I gave was Rodrygo he's not a relatively poorer player. We wouldn't even match his current wages which is the point, we don't offer the wages to attract the very best players

But that is the same for all but a handful of clubs. That is where the unrealistic expectations come in. Even if you throw money at a signing like this, City or someone else has a bigger draw. So moaning about it, just makes you look like a kid. We have to improve using players we can sign.

But you wanted him. Just-get-it-done!!! Or not?

Ange wanted him. You just said you wouldnt go above the mangers head - no you're saying you would?

What are you even talking about? Like i said you're all over the place. Ange didn't sign Richy he was already at the club when he was appointed.

Richarlison is probably harder to shift because of his injury record - which is also probably the reason we want to shift him!

Injured, wages and being brick.

 

[SpurMeUp]

You love putting words into other people's mouths. I've never uttered the words or even the sentiments "just get it done" please if you want to have this conversation actually comment on things you've seen me say otherwise its pointless. I don't really have the energy to rebut claims I never even made.


Dude taking to you is painful you're so all over the place. I said overpaying for relatively poorer players. The example I gave was Rodrygo he's not a relatively poorer player. We wouldn't even match his current wages which is the point, we don't offer the wages to attract the very best players

What are you even talking about? Like i said you're all over the place. Ange didn't sign Richy he was already at the club when he was appointed.

Injured, wages and being brick.

You always know you're winning an argument when posters start getting personal!

Lets make it simple: should you over pay for players a manager wants? Y/N?

 

[SpurMeUp]

...so signing Richarlison was backing the manager rather than your accusation of overpaying. Y/N? Can't have it both ways.

 

[Bishop]

@Grays_1890

I posted this in an edit but I think you might have missed it because you responded already.

The cultish aspect is that no matter what, the actions of ENIC are always excused, there's always a valid reason. Never any criticism, it's just not a genuine conversations at times.

I for example do not rate Levy as a chairman or ENIC as owners. Yes despite that you will never see me criticise the signings of Ndombele or GLC, or even Johnson (who I do not rate) because my views and purpose is not to be in opposition of whatever ENIC and Levy do. I have my views of how we should operate and when we operate in the way that matches my inclination I'm positive and when they do the opposite i'm negative.

The opposite is not true of those I see as cult like. It doesn't matter what ENIC do, it's always a positive and always justified. Excuses are made, goals posts are moved.

 

[Grays_1890]

@Grays_1890

I posted this in an edit but I think you might have missed it because you responded already.

The cultish aspect is that no matter what, the actions of ENIC are always excused, there's always a valid reason. Never any criticism, it's just not a genuine conversations at times.

I for example do not rate Levy as a chairman or ENIC as owners. Yes despite that you will never see me criticise the signings of Ndombele or GLC, or even Johnson (who I do not rate) because my views and purpose is not to be in opposition of whatever ENIC and Levy do. I have my views of how we should operate and when we operate in the way that matches my inclination I'm positive and when they do the opposite i'm negative.

The opposite is not true of those I see as cult like. It doesn't matter what ENIC do, it's always a positive and always justified. Excuses are made, goals posts are moved.

Mate I am sorry but thats rubbish, I and others have criticised them countless times, I have even done it it in clear day when someone has claimed I have not and shown examples and had that person still lie about it.

I like to think I see a much bigger picture of the game, having done a project in Covid for the PL and having access to 4 major London clubs in that time it gave me a new reality of what 99.9% of things are spoken about in football is emotion over reality and pre built ideas and stories that people won't therefore deviate from that belief.

Its like any argument on here or elsewhere, you can't sit in the middle because unless you are planting a flag in the sand on an extreme of either side people make stuff up, like you have saying "No matter what that Enic are always excused" thats just not the truth and its come up because some people don't agree with you today about a single isolated subject which is tiny in terms of the entire picture of the club.

SO I will be clear here just for fact, I think Daniel Levy has overall done a tremendous job at Spurs whilst making scores of mistakes along the way, he is far from perfect, I am also of the belief though that he has worked against bosses and owners that have made that job harder. I think its time he left but I will applaud him for the strides made to put Spurs on the platform they are on now.

BUT I will maintain and always have maintained for the wider good of the sport, Spurs or otherwise that the black hole of money and giving players, who 50% of the PL are useless, wages upon wages because its the done thing is a race to the bottom and I will always champion a pathway for a more sustainable club and sport (I would and do say the same about Cricket etc).

So from that you can put me in any camp you like, thats up to you, but I know 100% where my beliefs, heart and head lie on the subject overall and its not as shocking or as cultish as what you may think it is

 

[Bishop]

You always know you're winning an argument when posters start getting personal!

Lets make it simple: should you over pay for players a manager wants? Y/N?

No you're jumping around making things up and attributing them to me.

We should not overpay for relatively poorer players. Ie. Let's not pay a player worth 100k pw on the open market 250k pw. If how we we were able to sign 2025 Isak but to so we had to overpay that's is understandable because of his proven quality at the very top of the game it's a gamble worth taking. It's not worth doing it for a Richarlison and again it's not hindsight, go look in his thread I said at the time we should not sign him.

...so signing Richarlison was backing the manager rather than your accusation of overpaying. Y/N? Can't have it both ways.

We weren't backing the manager. Conte didn't even want him. You realize Ange wasn't the manager when we signed Richy right?

 

[Bishop]

Mate I am sorry but thats rubbish, I am others have criticised them countless times, I have even done it it in clear day when someone has claimed I have not and shown examples and had that person still lie about it.

I like to think I see a much bigger picture of the game, having done a project in Covid for the PL and having access to 4 major London clubs in that time it gave me a new reality of what 99.9% of things are spoken about in football is emotion over reality and pre built ideas and stories that people won't therefore deviate from that belief.

Its like any argument on here or elsewhere, you can't sit in the middle because unless you are planting a flag in the sand on an extreme of either side people make stuff up, like you have saying "No matter what that Enic are always excused" thats just not the truth and its come up because some people don't agree with you today about a single isolated subject which is tiny in terms of the entire picture of the club.

You're not a cult member but my word there are definitely lots of members. You might not see it or agree but you tend to have more positive reviews than myself so that's somewhat understandable.

It's a bit like with DubaiSpurs everyone knows he's anti Levy with a passion. You could even call it cult like. Sometimes there are people whose position is ingrained in them them no matter the conversation.

 

[SpurMeUp]

No you're jumping around making things up and attributing them to me.

We should not overpay for relatively poorer players. Ie. Let's not pay a player worth 100k pw on the open market 250k pw. If how we we were able to sign 2025 Isak but to so we had to overpay that's is understandable because of his proven quality at the very top of the game it's a gamble worth taking. It's not worth doing it for a Richarlison and again it's not hindsight, go look in his thread I said at the time we should not sign him.

We weren't backing the manager. Conte didn't even want him. You realize Ange wasn't the manager when we signed Richy right?

Doesn’t matter who the manager is at the time. Should you overpay a little if it’s the player a manager wants, yes or no? Can swap in anyone. Tel for example.

I guess you prefer a Director of Football setup where someone is overseeing recruitment and choosing who is worth signing. So when managers move on there is some consistency. Which is fair enough.

 

[Grays_1890]

You're not a cult member but my word there are definitely lots of members. You might not see it or agree but you tend to have more positive reviews than myself so that's somewhat understandable.

It's a bit like with DubaiSpurs everyone knows he's anti Levy with a passion. You could even call it cult like. Sometimes there are people whose position is ingrained in them them no matter the conversation.

I have more positive views because having grown up like all of us I have had my own journey with Spurs and I can tell you now this version of Spurs is far far far greater than having to stand at Oakwell away and hope for a spawny equaliser to just about stay in the league hahaha. So yeh I recognise there are issues here and the Chairman has his faults, but if we are comparing ourselves to Arsenal, Liverpool and neuveau clubs like City and Chelsea as our competition and league rivals, then there has been progression beyond where we were. And I am thankful for that, I know thats unfashionable in the modern age where grown men scream on the highroad at protests like their 14 year old selves about how things should be done.

 

[Bishop]

Doesn’t matter who the manager is at the time. Should you overpay a little if it’s the player a manager wants, yes or no? Can swap in anyone. Tel for example.

I guess you prefer a Director of Football setup where someone is overseeing recruitment and choosing who is worth signing. So when managers move on there is some consistency. Which is fair enough.

Yes I am an advocate for the DoF model. In terms of over paying I guess it depends on the player but I'd say no for a middle of the road player. I'd accept it for a higher standard player but for me that would have to be someone who is truly proven at the very best level.

 

[Bishop]

I have more positive views because having grown up like all of us I have had my own journey with Spurs and I can tell you now this version of Spurs is far far far greater than having to stand at Oakwell away and hope for a spawny equaliser to just about stay in the league hahaha. So yeh I recognise there are issues here and the Chairman has his faults, but if we are comparing ourselves to Arsenal, Liverpool and neuveau clubs like City and Chelsea as our competition and league rivals, then there has been progression beyond where we were. And I am thankful for that, I know thats unfashionable in the modern age where grown men scream on the highroad at protests like their 14 year old selves about how things should be done.

Tbh I don't even compare us to those sides, I moreso compare us to the likes of Athletico, Dortmund, Monaco, the RB Clubs, Brighton, Porto, Benfica etc. The middle ranking sides who tends to absolutely maximise the resources they have, because they want to win. I don't believe Spurs ever truly do this. Our concern is about the finances first and the people who defend that no matter what frustrate me.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Yes I am an advocate for the DoF model. In terms of over paying I guess it depends on the player but I'd say no for a middle of the road player. I'd accept it for a higher standard player but for me that would have to be someone who is truly proven at the very best level.

Of course hindsight makes it easy for us to analyse. In everything. Few people are good at reading the future. I do think you can to some extent, but there’s never total certainty. I think now Spurs look for players who show dedication and hard work (post Ndombele). Similarly, Frank had a no ‘dingdong heads’ policy at Brentford.

Which players do you think we overpaid for?

You mentioned Richarlison. His fitness is the major issue with him. He barely gets into a rhythm before he gets injured again. His stats arent awful. He wasn’t injury prone at Everton.

Tel? I would agree. But its one of those where we ‘only’ had to make up the extra on top of loan payments. And he has undeniable potential. Only 20. Did we over pay? I think we did yes. But if the manger wanted him, and he’s a committed hard worker - clearly is, see Kanes endorsement - then you can see why we did sign him.

Ultimately we aren’t able to shop at the top table. We have to hedge our bets and buy players who could be the next big thing.

 

[braineclipse]

I've asked this before when this stuff has been discussed, not sure if answered before and by who...

But if/when people are unhappy with how much we spend on wages I wonder how much more people would like us to spend, and then calculate how that would impact our "net spend" year by year.

Then again I also think the best way for us to get top level players worthy of us paying whatever our highest salaries could be is to develop players who aren't top players left.

To me the strategy of going a bit broad, sign top level talent and develop them, spend less on wages and more on transfer fees seems like a good strategy.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Why wouldn’t we? Lower risk, can give them back, isn’t that obvious?

It’s just simple mathematics. If trying to sell a player, if their wages are 30% lower then buying teams who aren’t the elite, can afford them.


where is this magic money pot you refer to??? What is it you’re suggesting we do differently? Spend less on transfers and more on wages?

The magic money tree exists you know