Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Silly McSilly Face]

Don't, on the whole, disagree with what you are saying but .......

How did the 'second to none' intelligence service miss all the signs for Oct 7th? or was that a known event that was allowed (perhaps even encouraged) as it served a political purpose? They can't be amazing and that brick can they?

Also, Iran has been 'weeks away' from a Nuclear weapon since at least 1992 (Netanyahu's own words back then) ... that is 1,600 weeks away ago. But THIS time it is the real one???? Really? How convenient.
Fiji and Dijibouti are also weeks away from nuclear capability in the literal sense of the phrase - everything in the future is 'weeks away'. Why isn't anyone attacking them?

Second to none doesnt mean perfect. Intelligence is not evidence, its intelligence. October 7th is an interesting one and something the Israelis need to investigate internally. Sounds like they got good intelligence that something was brewing but they just didn't act on it. On Iran being close to nuclear weapons for a long time that doesnt necessarily mean that hasn't been true. West has been working almost tirelessly to prevent them taking those last steps for years, including utilising sanctions, diplomacy and covert and overt force where deemed necessary.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Second to none doesnt mean perfect. Intelligence is not evidence, its intelligence. October 7th is an interesting one and something the Israelis need to investigate internally. Sounds like they got good intelligence that something was brewing but they just didn't act on it. On Iran being close to nuclear weapons for a long time that doesnt necessarily mean that hasn't been true. West has been working almost tirelessly to prevent them taking those last steps for years, including utilising sanctions, diplomacy and covert and overt force where deemed necessary.

Netanyahu has been claiming Iran will develop a bomb "in 2/3 year/months/days" for decades.
Are we to believe him/Mossad now just because they broke international law in doing their 'pre-emptive strike"?

Or do we still think Sadam had "weapons of mass destruction" prior Bush and Blair's invasion in 2003?

 

[Baleforce]

Netanyahu has been claiming Iran will develop a bomb "in 2/3 year/months/days" for decades.
Are we to believe him/Mossad now just because they broke international law in doing their 'pre-emptive strike"?

Or do we still think Sadam had "weapons of mass destruction" prior Bush and Blair's invasion in 2003?

The previous threat by Iran to remove Israel from the pages of history adds weight to those fears.

 

[johnola]

Don't forget to fill your cars up with petrol, if you still driving one of those old jalopies.

Just did now I can’t get in it.

 

[glorygloryeze]

The previous threat by Iran to remove Israel from the pages of history adds weight to those fears.

A spoken threat from over 20 years ago by a long since redundant politician..

 

[Baleforce]

A spoken threat from over 20 years ago by a long since redundant politician..

Yeah, as it’s not been retracted and all regimes since have continued to fund terrorist groups committed to the destruction of Israel.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Yeah, as it’s not been retracted and all regimes since have continued to fund terrorist groups committed to the destruction of Israel.

So, what about Trump's (or any American President's) threat to any nation today or in the past 20/30 years to bomb/obliterate them?
Do those countries then always have the justification to bomb America at some point in the future unless Trump or relevant President go on CNN etc and publicly apologise/retract?

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Netanyahu has been claiming Iran will develop a bomb "in 2/3 year/months/days" for decades.
Are we to believe him/Mossad now just because they broke international law in doing their 'pre-emptive strike"?

Or do we still think Sadam had "weapons of mass destruction" prior Bush and Blair's invasion in 2003?

No we don't blindly believe but we DO know:
- Iran has been trying to develop nuclear weapons
- That relations with Iran are at decades-long low, destroying diplomatic incentive to pause or scale back their nuclear programme
- That all the support they've been giving Russia in Ukraine won't come for free and that Russian isolation from international structures leave them unperturbed from providing Iranians with the necessary technical and material resources required to complete their development.

If the US join in on strikes that will be a key sign that the west think the Israelis are justified in acting now.

 

[glorygloryeze]

No we don't blindly believe but we DO know:
- Iran has been trying to develop nuclear weapons
- That relations with Iran are at decades-long low, destroying diplomatic incentive to pause or scale back their nuclear programme
- That all the support they've been giving Russia in Ukraine won't come for free and that Russian isolation from international structures leave them unperturbed from providing Iranians with the necessary technical and material resources required to complete their development.

If the US join in on strikes that will be a key sign that the west think the Israelis are justified in acting now.

It would also be foolhardy because:

a) it destroys the very fabric by which the "West" hold themselves in high esteem: the moral superiority and adherence to "international law" (which Iran has NOT broken, whilst Israel in making those strikes have)

b) the Nuclear inspectors have said Iran has mostly been co-operating with their inspections and they find no evidence of Nuclear enrichment to the level of developing a bomb (meanwhile Israel won't sign up to any non-proliferation treaty and refuses ANY inspections - again showing the rank hypocrisy of "the West")

c) it would provide evidence to any state who wanted to go nuclear (in terms of weapons) that it would be just and right to do so (after all, no-one is bombing North Korea, eh)

The US and UK bombed Iraq to kingdom come because of "intelligence that suggested Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction", remember that actions don't always go hand in hand with the publicly stated reasons (and as i say Netanyahu has been saying Iran is 2/3 years from developing nuclear weapons for nearly 40 years and it still hasn't happened yet, so..)

 

[LutonSpurs]

It seems all of a sudden bombing hospitals is bad. Iran could say there were weapons in the basement and then say they will investigate it for Israel. And then say they did nothing wrong.

 

[glorygloryeze]

It seems all of a sudden bombing hospitals is bad. Iran could say there were weapons in the basement and then say they will investigate it for Israel. And then say they did nothing wrong.

Funnily enough, wasn't one of the hospitals in Israel next to or on top of an IDF/Mossad co-ordination centre or something?

 

[LutonSpurs]

Funnily enough, wasn't one of the hospitals in Israel next to or on top of an IDF/Mossad co-ordination centre or something?

Seems so. And that's what they targeted and the shock waves damaged the hospital. Still disgusting. But at least the media isn't questioning this time. Mainly because the type of patient probably has a life worth caring about in the wests eyes.

 

[Baleforce]

So, what about Trump's (or any American President's) threat to any nation today or in the past 20/30 years to bomb/obliterate them?
Do those countries then always have the justification to bomb America at some point in the future unless Trump or relevant President go on CNN etc and publicly apologise/retract?

I don’t want to get into whattabouttery, I was merely adding some context as to why Israel feels so threatened by Iran, it is not without reason.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I don’t want to get into whattabouttery, I was merely adding some context as to why Israel feels so threatened by Iran, it is not without reason.

Oh it's certainly not without 'reason'...much like Saddam Hussein bombed Iran with 'reason' or Russian invaded Ukraine with 'reason'...

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

It would also be foolhardy because:

a) it destroys the very fabric by which the "West" hold themselves in high esteem: the moral superiority and adherence to "international law" (which Iran has NOT broken, whilst Israel in making those strikes have)

b) the Nuclear inspectors have said Iran has mostly been co-operating with their inspections and they find no evidence of Nuclear enrichment to the level of developing a bomb (meanwhile Israel won't sign up to any non-proliferation treaty and refuses ANY inspections - again showing the rank hypocrisy of "the West")

c) it would provide evidence to any state who wanted to go nuclear (in terms of weapons) that it would be just and right to do so (after all, no-one is bombing North Korea, eh)

The US and UK bombed Iraq to kingdom come because of "intelligence that suggested Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction", remember that actions don't always go hand in hand with the publicly stated reasons (and as i say Netanyahu has been saying Iran is 2/3 years from developing nuclear weapons for nearly 40 years and it still hasn't happened yet, so..)

Iran has not broken international law? Are you being serious? In terms of the Israeli strikes they have an arguable case of self defence in degrading Iran's ability to manufacture and supply arms as Israel faced the Oct 7th attacks and almost daily attempted rocket and missile strikes from Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis all of whom are essentially paramilitary proxies of the Iranian military.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Seems so. And that's what they targeted and the shock waves damaged the hospital. Still disgusting. But at least the media isn't questioning this time. Mainly because the type of patient probably has a life worth caring about in the wests eyes.

I thought it was only Hammas who 'hid their headquarters amongst hospitals, thus creating human shields" etc etc

 

[glorygloryeze]

Iran has not broken international law? Are you being serious?

Tell me which law did Iran break that led to Israel carrying out their "pre-emptive" strikes last week?

 

[Rorschach]

No we don't blindly believe but we DO know:
- Iran has been trying to develop nuclear weapons
- That relations with Iran are at decades-long low, destroying diplomatic incentive to pause or scale back their nuclear programme
- That all the support they've been giving Russia in Ukraine won't come for free and that Russian isolation from international structures leave them unperturbed from providing Iranians with the necessary technical and material resources required to complete their development.

If the US join in on strikes that will be a key sign that the west think the Israelis are justified in acting now.

If the US join in with strikes, it will only tell us the last person in the room told Trump it would make him look good, or some propagandist on Fox said war is macho. It certainly won't be because he weighed up the geopolitical or national security concerns. We are looking at government policy decided by magic eight ball.

 

[Gutter Boy]

If the US join in with strikes, it will only tell us the last person in the room told Trump if would make him look good, or some propagandist on Fox said war is macho. It certainly won't be because he weighed up the geopolitical or national security concerns. We are looking at government policy decided by magic eight ball.

It's because Persia has the 2nd largest gas and 3rd largest oil reserves in the world. That's what's really going on.

 

[Rorschach]

It's because Persia has the 2nd largest gas and 3rd largest oil reserves in the world. That's what's really going on.

It is a factor.