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Ange departs

Ange departs.

  • In

    Votes: 81 42.6%

  • Out

    Votes: 109 57.4%
  • Total voters
    190
Mr Gogolak said:
Hey! I was on the ancestor of this very forum back then and I'll have you know this was the best time ever. There was a guy called Paul Popescu who was cooler and more knowledgeable than all of the current posters put together! I swear, these kids... (I hope it's clear this was a tongue-in-cheek comment) (apart from the praise for Paul Popescu, who really was a cool guy to chat with)
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I mean dont get me wrong the banter on boards back then was far better IMO not soured by the social media stuff. I do vaguely remember the name "Paul Popescu" from spurs boards back then along with a few other "00s legends" i can remember: "Camelot Yid/CY" and Mark Jacob was a regular poster on one of the boards but I cant remember what his handle was - he actually published a book about the Graham season.
 
thfcsteff said:
Many things were quite obviously amiss. Do you genuinely believe the club/mgmt have not been thoroughly reviewing them since mid-season? I think the levels of assumption in your post here are large. The whole 'ankle/upper body'? I mean, that's obvious. What are you saying? The whole 'watching and gauging while injured'? Again, what are you saying?

Injuries are only part of it. Rhythm on return, constant shuffling, fatigue affecting focus, there are so many factors. Inflexibility through January might well have been another. Essentially you either trust Postecoglu and the club to have seen the story and be planning changes to make sure none of it happens again, or you don't. You either believe there's a rare ether which comes with winning together in adversity -and want to buy into that- or you don't.
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The levels of assumption are just common sense, as are yours. The original point still remains that we seems to struggle when we make too many personnel changes to the starting eleven. That has been a 2 year pattern and one that hasn't changed that much in the last 6 months.

As for this "Essentially you either trust Postecoglu and the club to have seen the story and be planning changes to make sure none of it happens again, or you don't." That is only true if you have to live your life with everything in either a black or a white box. Many of us are wired differently. We're happy staying in the grey space. We don't get any discomfort from it.

I actually think none of us do know whether Ange can find a higher level of tactical acumen and the consistency that goes with it. As I've written many times, I'm happy for the club to make that call on Ange as they are the ones having the direct conversations with him. It is in the private conversations between employer and employee, and the way the employee answer those tough questions, that defines whether he remains in role. It's nothing that the fans will be privy to. I will back the club either way. I wouldn't have trusted Levy to make that call though (with consultation) in our old model. We have more football people in the leadership roles nowadays at our club. I do trust them as they haven't given me a reason not to. Levy did.

Ange needs to rebuild trust with so many fans if he stays. You don't just get trust in life. It is earned.
 
Muttley said:
The levels of assumption are just common sense, as are yours. The original point still remains that we seems to struggle when we make too many personnel changes to the starting eleven. That has been a 2 year pattern and one that hasn't changed that much in the last 6 months.
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That's been a 2 decade pattern, not a 2 year pattern. It's been seen repeatedly since we first got back into Europe. We've constantly fielded changed teams in Europe, in the early rounds, and the performances have been dreadful. It's not just an Ange issue.
 
DubSpur said:
That's been a 2 decade pattern, not a 2 year pattern. It's been seen repeatedly since we first got back into Europe. We've constantly fielded changed teams in Europe, in the early rounds, and the performances have been dreadful. It's not just an Ange issue.
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When did europa start giving a cl place when you won it?
 
Lilbaz said:
Incentive to win it. If you have a 20-30% bonus for being in the cl you might try harder as a team.
Or maybe i'm wrong and perfomance bonuses are worthless. Just pay players a straight wage.
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They have performance bonuses in any trophy. Under Jol do you not think just being in Europe again was motivation?
Why didn't they try harder in the league for that 20-30% CL bonus? Or is it just that too much rotation leads to a drop in performance levels as the 20 years of evidence would suggest?
 
Lilbaz said:
Incentive to win it. If you have a 20-30% bonus for being in the cl you might try harder as a team.
Or maybe i'm wrong and perfomance bonuses are worthless. Just pay players a straight wage.
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No, it's a football thing that occurs in all competitions. I've seen it various times in league games, FA Cup games you name it. When you don't play together consistently it impacts performance it's a pretty logical thing to happen, not just a Spurs thing and not down to performance bonuses :D .....
 
DubSpur said:
They have performance bonuses in any trophy. Under Jol do you not think just being in Europe again was motivation?
Why didn't they try harder in the league for that 20-30% CL bonus? Or is it just that too much rotation leads to a drop in performance levels as the 20 years of evidence would suggest?
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You don't get a 20-30% bonus on your salary for winning the league/fa cup. You get it for qualifying for the cl.
You might not agree with that. But it is whst it is
 
Lilbaz said:
You don't get a 20-30% bonus on your salary for winning the league/fa cup. You get it for qualifying for the cl.
You might not agree with that. But it is whst it is
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Where are you getting the 20-30% bonus from? The last time we qualified it was about 3.5m between the team, nowhere near 20-30% bonus.
They get bonuses based on how far they progress in each competition on top of that.
 
DubSpur said:
Where are you getting the 20-30% bonus from? The last time we qualified it was about 3.5m between the team, nowhere near 20-30% bonus.
They get bonuses based on how far they progress in each competition on top of that.
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When we qualified under redknapp our wage bill shot up 30%.
Levy has said we had the biggest bonuses in the prem.
Your team get £2m for winning the fa cup, £100k for the league cup. How much bonus do you think you get compared to cl?
 
Lilbaz said:
When we qualified under redknapp our wage bill shot up 30%.
Levy has said we had the biggest bonuses in the prem.
Your team get £2m for winning the fa cup, £100k for the league cup. How much bonus do you think you get compared to cl?
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I don't know, I haven't seen the players contracts. If you have seen them and know their bonuses I stand corrected, if not you are guessing based on the change of wages in one year. You don't only get 2m for the fa and 100k for league cup. There's gate recipets and entry into Europe.

As for the increase in wage bill under Redknapp, you can't say it's just the CL, would need to look at how contracts changed, other bonuses,new signings etc.
 
Muttley said:
The levels of assumption are just common sense, as are yours. The original point still remains that we seems to struggle when we make too many personnel changes to the starting eleven. That has been a 2 year pattern and one that hasn't changed that much in the last 6 months.

As for this "Essentially you either trust Postecoglu and the club to have seen the story and be planning changes to make sure none of it happens again, or you don't." That is only true if you have to live your life with everything in either a black or a white box. Many of us are wired differently. We're happy staying in the grey space. We don't get any discomfort from it.

I actually think none of us do know whether Ange can find a higher level of tactical acumen and the consistency that goes with it. As I've written many times, I'm happy for the club to make that call on Ange as they are the ones having the direct conversations with him. It is in the private conversations between employer and employee, and the way the employee answer those tough questions, that defines whether he remains in role. It's nothing that the fans will be privy to. I will back the club either way. I wouldn't have trusted Levy to make that call though (with consultation) in our old model. We have more football people in the leadership roles nowadays at our club. I do trust them as they haven't given me a reason not to. Levy did.

Ange needs to rebuild trust with so many fans if he stays. You don't just get trust in life. It is earned.
Click to expand...

...be well my friend...
 
DubSpur said:
That's been a 2 decade pattern, not a 2 year pattern. It's been seen repeatedly since we first got back into Europe. We've constantly fielded changed teams in Europe, in the early rounds, and the performances have been dreadful. It's not just an Ange issue.
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Yeah, perfectly true.

What we haven't seen so often though is a manager that lasts a couple of full seasons and has such depth of squad through significant spend. I'm hoping that we can build a squad that is more interchangeable regardless of manager. Rotation is key to keep a freshness.
 
metalgear said:
with ange around i think our europe adventure will be cut short.
well unless he's going to win it and sacrifice the league
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I know that was tongue in cheek, but our squad is a million miles from even doing fairly well in the CL. I am a believer that we should try and win every game, NOT sacrifice one thing for another. I refuse to believe any player is incapable of playing two games of football a week, and I won't accept the excuse they are tired.
 
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