***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs West Ham United OMT***

[Bishop]

Richarlison a free header only a meter or two away from goal. Zuma deflection - an inch away from being a goal. Plenty of shots from just outside the box which were wayward. Poros crosses could have been ogs. Johsons failed crosses and weak shot. All you need is one of them to convert. Or for wham not to get so lucky with two gifted goals. We didn't get a lot of chances, but you never do when a team sits deep in a low block. You just need one to go in, to open the game up.

If we get a second goal as per our XG, and don't gift two goals to them, we win. So I think the XG stats broadly back up us being marginally the better side if you take out two fuk ups that lead to their goals.

These are not good chances other than the Richarlison one. More times than not those type of chances do not lead to goals. They are simply not good chances.

I don't think they were the better side clearly we were but our better play didn't lead to creating chances and that's the issue.

 

[90291Spur]

I disagree that we never looked like scoring. But rather than not creating clear cut chances all game long, I think the bigger worry is that we’re not finishing those chances when we’re on top and dominating. Villa and West Ham both followed a very similar pattern. We need to be getting the 2nd and 3rd goals.

Edit: basically what Ange is saying here:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1732898829840560368

"That’s part of the problem. Everyone’s saying we’er playing good football. Good football means you win games. I’m not here to play good football, I’m here to win… We play this style of football not to get pats on the back, we play this style of football to win games and bring success to this football club."

 

[SpurMeUp]

These are not good chances other than the Richarlison one. More times than not those type of chances do not lead to goals. They are simply not good chances.

I don't think they were the better side clearly we were but our better play didn't lead to creating chances and that's the issue.

Yet our XG was close to 2 goals scored?

And their two goals were gifts.

Not sure of your logic there.

 

[Finney Is Back]

"That’s part of the problem. Everyone’s saying we’er playing good football. Good football means you win games. I’m not here to play good football, I’m here to win… We play this style of football not to get pats on the back, we play this style of football to win games and bring success to this football club."

Im really happy with actually enjoying going to the games and being entertained.

 

[DeanoAustin]

These are not good chances other than the Richarlison one. More times than not those type of chances do not lead to goals. They are simply not good chances.

I don't think they were the better side clearly we were but our better play didn't lead to creating chances and that's the issue.

I think the other issue, and you have to call a spade a spade, is that we’ve conceded 13 goals in 5 games I think. Obviously, losing Romero and VdV is a massive problem with our lack of cover so I have sympathy on that front. However, the fact we led every one of those games does raise questions about our game management.

 

[glasgowspur]

I think we went through a game today which is a result of our recent games. Trying too hard to score the perfect goal without any real instinct taking over. Johnson and Deki who I think are both excellent players were guilty of holding on too much and wanting to almost walk the ball in which slowed everything down. Against a team like West Ham that's suicide as they fill in and get numbers back in whilst anyone's foot is on the ball. Quick quick quick where as today was IMO at times slow slow slow.

BUT that said I don't think it's anywhere near doom and gloom as the build up play at times first half from back to front was fully competent and was very much within a style, you don't keep hold of the ball for 80% of a game and be a bad side, yes what you do is important, but I'm hugely hopeful we shift the tentative monkey off our back and finish with conviction

Deki retains possession, he isn't going to hit passes he doesn't think he can complete, he's waiting on runs, games like tonight there is no space to run into.
That's where I feel we miss maddison the most, he pulls players out of position to allow space for runners.
It will click, I have no doubt at all once we have our players back fit we will be a force again, and we will only get better.

 

[Lilbaz]

Work needs to be done. No doubt.

We are playing well. Should be winning. We just

The movement was excellent. Ange really has the squad drilled into falling onto his shape. There is always a player available and a pass to be made so that part of the game worked today.

What didn't work is sometimes you need to play into space, especially in tight triangle passing systems. It's not enough to always play into feet you also need to play into space for players to run onto, that's what stretches defences and makes defenders second guess themselves. We had very little of that and we have very little of it without Maddison and Sarr to a lesser extent on the pitch.

So the movement was good, but the incisive passing was very lacking today and without those cutting balls the likes of Son isn't going to achieve much against a tightly packed hunkered down defence.

I was quite disappointed with GLC today as I was hoping he would play more of the killer pass but he was very much just a passing rotational player and that's a good thing to have but you need the through ball as well and that's what the missing Maddison has us lacking.

The amount of times a player was running through and the other player passed behind them was infuriating. It's not new. But seriously, these are prem level players.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I disagree that we never looked like scoring. But rather than not creating clear cut chances all game long, I think the bigger worry is that we’re not finishing those chances when we’re on top and dominating. Villa and West Ham both followed a very similar pattern. We need to be getting the 2nd and 3rd goals.

Edit: basically what Ange is saying here:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1732898829840560368

Honestly, with what he has had at his disposal, we have played better than I thought possible. To get a tune out of Davies, Royal, PEH, Gil all credit to Ange. We were in the mix in every game. It didn't come off in the past few games, but we were vying for the win in each one. Might have even won the City game at the death (the only game where if I am honest we were a little lucky, whereas all the others we didn't get much luck).

Ange has to hold he head high too. With the players available, missing VDV and Maddison, and so many others, I remain positive. This game felt like the small squad took its toll after the exersions of the City game.

Yes we have to be better, but no one should be too harsh on the remaining squad or Ange who have given everything and been in the mix for the W in every game.

 

[Spur of the moment]

I thought Hojbjerg was our best midfield player today. Won a lot of the ball and used it sensibly.

Lo Celso had the attacking midfield role but wasn’t creative enough, I think Ange wanted to see if Kulu taking that role instead of Lo Celso would yield better results, I’ve got no issue with that.

Compare how Maddison demands the ball all over the pitch and dictates our play with how often Lo Celso gets on the ball. I’m not digging Lo Celso out here in particular, just saying that him coming off today wasnt a mistake in my opinion.

But for the many wayward passes second half that regularly fudged up our most promising attacking moves, for sure he was our best midfielder today.

 

[Grays_1890]

Deki retains possession, he isn't going to hit passes he doesn't think he can complete, he's waiting on runs, games like tonight there is no space to run into.
That's where I feel we miss maddison the most, he pulls players out of position to allow space for runners.
It will click, I have no doubt at all once we have our players back fit we will be a force again, and we will only get better.

Oh we miss Maddison BADLY

 

[Bishop]

Yet our XG was close to 2 goals scored?

And their two goals were gifts.

Not sure of your logic there.

Their first one was not a gift. They took a shot and it rebounded into their players path, that's not a gift that's a product of their own attack. The second was indeed a gift.

Again though given how much possession we had 1.78 xG, taking into account the Richarlison chance is not the stat of a team creating a number of quality chances. We just didn't imo. Watch that match again in highlights and you'll struggle to much real penalty box action from us or a keeper needing to make saves or even dive.

It's the opposite of the Aston Villa match. In that one we genuinely battered them and should have scored many, it could have been 4 and that wouldn't have flattered us. Today for me, nah I just don't agree. The "chances" we had other than the Richarlison one are just the tpe of chances you see in a match and they usually don't hit the back of net. They all very speculative, you need a great deal of luck for them to go in, somewhat like West Ham's first. Whilst I don't consider it a gift, I don't think it was some great chance.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Honestly, with what he has had at his disposal, we have played better than I thought possible. To get a tune out of Davies, Royal, PEH, Gil all credit to Ange. We were in the mix in every game. It didn't come off in the past few games, but we were vying for the win in each one. Might have even won the City game at the death (the only game where if I am honest we were a little lucky, whereas all the others we didn't get much luck).

Ange has to hold he head high too. With the players available, missing VDV and Maddison, and so many others, I remain positive. This game felt like the small squad took its toll after the exersions of the City game.

Yes we have to be better, but no one should be too harsh on the remaining squad or Ange who have given everything and been in the mix for the W in every game.

I thought Clive Allen summed it up perfectly in that interview.

 

[90291Spur]

Their first one was not a gift. They took a shot and it rebounded into their players path, that's not a gift that's a product of their own attack. The second was indeed a gift.

Again though given how much possession we had 1.78 xG, taking into account the Richarlison chance is not the stat of a team creating a number of quality chances. We just didn't imo. Watch that match again in highlights and you'll struggle to much real penalty box action from us or a keeper needing to make saves or even dive.

It's the opposite of the Aston Villa match. In that one we genuinely battered them and should have scored many, it could have been 4 and that wouldn't have flattered us. Today for me, nah I just don't agree. The "chances" we had other than the Richarlison one are just the tpe of chances you see in a match and they usually don't hit the back of net. They all very speculative, you need a great deal of luck for them to go in, somewhat like West Ham's first. Whilst I don't consider it a gift, I don't think it was some great chance.

Rebounded twice, perfectly. That's double luck.

 

[Grays_1890]

Honestly, with what he has had at his disposal, we have played better than I thought possible. To get a tune out of Davies, Royal, PEH, Gil all credit to Ange. We were in the mix in every game. It didn't come off in the past few games, but we were vying for the win in each one. Might have even won the City game at the death (the only game where if I am honest we were a little lucky, whereas all the others we didn't get much luck).

Ange has to hold he head high too. With the players available, missing VDV and Maddison, and so many others, I remain positive. This game felt like the small squad took its toll after the exersions of the City game.

Yes we have to be better, but no one should be too harsh on the remaining squad or Ange who have given everything and been in the mix for the W in every game.

I want us to be where Liverpool and Arsenal are now but I'm also respectful of how they got there and the pains to be those clubs. As you say with what he has he has got a better turn than I thought. We are gonna have more bumps, absolutely we are. But I will take them for what I believe the end goal could be

 

[thfcsteff]

We've seen plenty of games over the last few years where we come up against an opposition who is happy to sit back, frustrate and counter one or two times a half. This evening i felt, mostly from the first half tbf, that we were a lot more assured in trying to break that sort of approach down than anything i can remember going back to the Poch days (even back then it was still a crux for us with multiple match winners on the pitch) the game was played deeper in the opponents half than what we have been used to and the speed of pass and movement off the ball again was much better (for the most part) - so despite the result there's still signs we're moving in the right direction.

Absolutely.

For me, one of the things we miss the most with Madders out is that personality/arrogance/presence to punch it at the vital moments. Instead, we are taking extra touches in and around the box which are not needed. Johnson could do with a shot of arrogance, Deki too (albeit he was switched out on the right again tonight and started coming into the game after the late switch). The only player right now who looks like he believes in 'that' way is Porro.

I think we also have to acknowledge that if Richy puts away his sitter (I saw it as on par with what Haaland missed) then we likely win tonight 3 or 4 - 1.

This is all psych and learning. The system works.

BTw (and this is a general point) XG will always be distorted. No-one will convince me that our XG for, say, the firs-half reflects anything accurate. I counted approximately TEN times when we had a chance to either take a shot on target or play someone in where we instead took an extra touch or went laterally. 10% more convcition and both our goals scored and XG go shooting through the roof.

 

[thfcsteff]

Can you point to any chances second half where you’d have expected us to score?

Richardson. 4 yards out. Open goal. Heads wide.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Richardson. 4 yards out. Open goal. Heads wide.

We’ve mentioned and acknowledged that one. Was there another that was even remotely as good?

 

[Lilbaz]

I want us to be where Liverpool and Arsenal are now but I'm also respectful of how they got there and the pains to be those clubs. As you say with what he has he has got a better turn than I thought. We are gonna have more bumps, absolutely we are. But I will take them for what I believe the end goal could be

Klopp finished 8th his first season didn't he? Arteta took a few years (fa cup aside) to get going.

We can see the way we want to play and to an extent are doing that. Maddison and vdv are big misses. Because the manager hasn't got his squad yet.

 

[thfcsteff]

Kurt Zouma taking a wild swing and hitting the post for an own goal counts as a chance for us? Sarr, Bissouma and Porro blasting over I’m not sure were great chances? Maybe they just didnt look to be from my seat? I though we played some pretty stuff in the first half today but we’re not close to being as good as we were against Aston Villa.

But I think if you're honest, you'll recognise exactly what is being generally said by some of us. We are creating that chances to have loads of chances, what is lacking is an ounce of belief and conviction to take that shot or slide that final ball. I think some players tonight also need an extra insurance touch, and will also naturally look laterally or back rather than play the 'risk' game. Since VdV has been hurt, that has increased as the players know their 'cheat mode' leaves them a bit more exposed if a risk taken goes wrong. I sense Ange wants that changed ASAP.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think the other issue, and you have to call a spade a spade, is that we’ve conceded 13 goals in 5 games I think. Obviously, losing Romero and VdV is a massive problem with our lack of cover so I have sympathy on that front. However, the fact we led every one of those games does raise questions about our game management.

Midfield balance is everything. Especially the way we play. Especially with many defenders out. Losing Maddison was tough, losing Bissouma to suspension appears to have robbed him of something, and losing Sarr for a couple has been big.