• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Another shooting in Murica

First up, I’ll lay my cards on the table and say I’m slightly pro police as most of my family are armed police in the uk

What I don’t see from this video is the racist element, unless we assume that any white cop shooting a black man is by default a racist incident.

The events leading up to what we see in the video might give more indication to a racist event but I don’t see it in the video

What I see is

Suspect struggle and over power police - both a police failing and an aggressive act by the suspect

The suspect walk around to the drivers door ignoring police warnings - why the suspect feels he has a right to ignore armed police is questionable, but the police also failed to intercept and restrain the suspect before he could put the vehicle between himself and them.

Suspect reaches into the vehicle - now this is all down to the suspect, the police both in the UK and US see this as a high risk situation, especially in the US because of the gun laws. At this point the police have lost control and the officer overreacts but this is how they are trained (in the UK he would have been tasered if the police officer was unarmed or if he was armed they would have backed off to put room between themselves and an armed suspect) Unlike tv shows and movies a car door will not stop a bullet and anyone with a firearm has a reasonable chance of hitting someone within 3-4 feet, increase it to 10 - 12 feet and most people couldn’t hit a barn door with a handgun)

But the thing for me is that this scenario would have played out the same regardless of the race of the suspect, it might not have made the news if he was white, Asian or Muslim but the outcome for these actions would have been the same.
 
NoLimits01 said:
But the thing for me is that this scenario would have played out the same regardless of the race of the suspect, it might not have made the news if he was white, Asian or Muslim but the outcome for these actions would have been the same.
Click to expand...

I think this point is key but not easily explained on its own, the larger question is why black people act like they do when questioned. These incidents all seems to follow a trait of running or acting with suspicion, now this could be because of paranoia because of the perception of racism within the police, we dont know, hard to look inside a dead mans head. It goes back to my post, there is a roostertail of disaster in the US where all factors seem to add up to these outcomes.

My mates a Cop in the Met too and he has to do some pretty hairy things but the jobs 100% easier to police when you pull someone over and the potential for guns is low, extremely low in comparison especially when dealing with a misdemeanor where the likelihood is close to zero. In the US the feeling someone might have a gun hangs over even the smallest of pulls.

What I will say regardless of what we think about the police in the US not all the cops are racist and I would say before judging any cop their orders should be followed and not ignored, by running to your car you are going to put non racist cops into a decision making process no one wants to make.
 
awesome dawson said:
Try to imagine the scene, watch the video, put yourself in the victims literal position, whatever it takes. The cop(s) have guns pointed at him, he's going to the car (which I agree is a stupid move), the cops are still pointing guns at him. How the flying fcuk is he supposed to pick up a gun and turn around in a car door partially open situation, take aim at one of the cops ALL in the time it takes the cop(s) with guns still pointed at him to simply pull a trigger?

3EYnzU_0WjyyR9500
Click to expand...
It's happened again and again.

Search around for the firearms training videos the US police use. You'll see that kind of situation end up in police getting shot before you can even see the gun - and you're expecting to see a gun.
 
thfcsteff said:
There are some who clearly are not following procedure or training, and are either allowing the climate of fear and ignorance to make them nervous, or are using it as an excuse to enact their own warped and racist ideas of "justice". I know I keep bleating on about this, but I know a few cops who are constantly engaged with bringing down some nasty pieces of work, and they have not had to use their weapons thanks to careful planning, appropriate back-up and a clear grasp of the situation they are heading into. I agree, poor recruitment is a definite issue which has not helped the situation, as there are certainly some warped people getting hired.
Click to expand...
That's great with planning.

What happens with the first responder to a scene when someone reaches into their car for something? Most police for most of the time are reacting to immediate threats, not chasing down a long term target.
 
scaramanga said:
That's great with planning.

What happens with the first responder to a scene when someone reaches into their car for something? Most police for most of the time are reacting to immediate threats, not chasing down a long term target.
Click to expand...

No, it's experience. And no dispatch should comprise a pair of rookies.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I think this point is key but not easily explained on its own, the larger question is why black people act like they do when questioned. These incidents all seems to follow a trait of running or acting with suspicion, now this could be because of paranoia because of the perception of racism within the police, we dont know, hard to look inside a dead mans head. It goes back to my post, there is a roostertail of disaster in the US where all factors seem to add up to these outcomes.

My mates a Cop in the Met too and he has to do some pretty hairy things but the jobs 400% easier to police when you pull someone over and the potential for guns is low, extremely low in comparison especially when dealing with a misdemeanor where the likelihood is close to zero. In the US the feeling someone might have a gun hangs over even the smallest of pulls.

What I will say regardless of what we think about the police in the US not all the cops are racist and I would say before judging any cop their orders should be followed and not ignored, by running to your car you are going to put non racist cops into a decision making process no one wants to make.
Click to expand...
At the very least, in part, because millennials are running about telling them that police are racist and trying to kill them.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I think this point is key but not easily explained on its own, the larger question is why black people act like they do when questioned. These incidents all seems to follow a trait of running or acting with suspicion, now this could be because of paranoia because of the perception of racism within the police, we dont know, hard to look inside a dead mans head. It goes back to my post, there is a roostertail of disaster in the US where all factors seem to add up to these outcomes.

My mates a Cop in the Met too and he has to do some pretty hairy things but the jobs 400% easier to police when you pull someone over and the potential for guns is low, extremely low in comparison especially when dealing with a misdemeanor where the likelihood is close to zero. In the US the feeling someone might have a gun hangs over even the smallest of pulls.

What I will say regardless of what we think about the police in the US not all the cops are racist and I would say before judging any cop their orders should be followed and not ignored, by running to your car you are going to put non racist cops into a decision making process no one wants to make.
Click to expand...

He did not "run" to his car.
The officers had lost control of the scenario before he made that move.
As for your boldface question, are you really asking it? It is because they are tired of harassment. No-one has yet been able to explain why Elijah McClain was stopped? A 911 from someone who had nothing to say? Why was a car even sent out?
I outlined above my belief that there is a dangerous "fear mongering" thing going on when it comes to making black Americans pariahs. I believe that "fear mongering" also exists within the police.
 
scaramanga said:
At the very least, in part, because millennials are running about telling them that police are racist and trying to kill them.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, the point is when approached by a cop you dont know that so what do you do, it works both ways? Comply or not? If you comply and you are shot at point blank range then the cop is racist.

Thats an extreme simplistic point for the sake of it, but how many videos are there of anyone, white, black or hispanic being shot for complying with the police questioning? Regardless of anyones belief of the police surely law and order means you comply if a cop asks you to do something within reason?

Thats where we need to get back to
 
The first problem is guns the NRA and US politicians failing to increase gun controls. This failure undermines policemen and US citizens. How can a nation stand by and watch kids and innocent people get shot everyday without taking drastic action?

That said these cops, at point blank range, could have shot the guy in the leg. Even if they missed it would shocked the guy into stopping.

The US is often looked up to as an advanced nation. And in the size of its free market, it’s tech companies, it’s innovation on each coast it is a highly advanced nation. But in many other ways it’s undeveloped - it’s gun laws, lower income peoples rights, health etc it is nowhere near as developed as Northern European nations.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
That said these cops, at point blank range, could have shot the guy in the leg. Even if they missed it would shocked the guy into stopping.

Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Click to expand...

No they couldn't, this is not Miami vice. The office was too close, he only had a downward angle to shoot, the body mass was between the gun and the suspects knee, he is trained to aim for the body mass, this is the same reason he didn't go for a head shot (not Call of Duty) or tried to shoot anything out of his hand (not Dirty Harry)

He should have either stopped him before he could open the door or moved back to reassess the situation and run the possible risk of having an armed assailant in front of him with a shield of children behind the now armed assailant (note when he went from suspect to assailant), the officer was pushed into panicking and reverted back to very basic training, aim at body mass and fire (7 was very OTT)

Just to be clear I am not trying to justify the police officers actions, but in this case it took 2 to tango and the were failings on both sides.
 
NoLimits01 said:
Stop watching Hollywood cop movies

All armed police no matter what country are trained to aim for the centre mass, it’s almost impossible to shoot someone’s knee when they are moving.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest otherwise, especially when we're talking about a distance of less than a metre directly behind him.

However if you insist all police in the world are told to aim for the centre mass, how about not shoot seven times and just do it once trying to avoid key organs.
 
NoLimits01 said:
the officer was pushed into panicking and reverted back to very basic training, aim at body mass and fire (7 was very OTT)

Just to be clear I am not trying to justify the police officers actions, but in this case it took 2 to tango and the were failings on both sides.
Click to expand...

awesome dawson said:
I'd suggest otherwise, especially when we're talking about a distance of less than a metre directly behind him.

However if you insist all police in the world are told to aim for the centre mass, how about not shoot seven times and just do it once trying to avoid key organs.
Click to expand...

See above quote, 7 was way over the top and indicative of a police officer panicking

Edit... also worth saying that in the moment between the suspect opening the car door, the police officer grabbing him and pulling himself too close and then firing, it looks like the police officer did not aim and just pointed his gun and fired

Edit 2 .... I will reiterate that I am slightly biased on this and I am getting most of my info from serving armed UK police officers
 
awesome dawson said:
However if you insist all police in the world are told to aim for the centre mass, how about not shoot seven times and just do it once trying to avoid key organs.
Click to expand...

I think even the UK Police are trained to aim or torso.

I do agree with the other point though, 7 shots is excessive force.
 
NoLimits01 said:
No they couldn't, this is not Miami vice. The office was too close, he only had a downward angle to shoot, the body mass was between the gun and the suspects knee, he is trained to aim for the body mass, this is the same reason he didn't go for a head shot (not Call of Duty) or tried to shoot anything out of his hand (not Dirty Harry)

He should have either stopped him before he could open the door or moved back to reassess the situation and run the possible risk of having an armed assailant in front of him with a shield of children behind the now armed assailant (note when he went from suspect to assailant), the officer was pushed into panicking and reverted back to very basic training, aim at body mass and fire (7 was very OTT)

Just to be clear I am not trying to justify the police officers actions, but in this case it took 2 to tango and the were failings on both sides.
Click to expand...

Put it this way, if you had the option to lower your gun a foot and shoot, and not kill someone, why wouldn’t you? Instead reports say he was shot 7 times in the back. Forget training we’re talking about another persons life. From that range it’s not hard to shoot someone in the leg. You’re only a meter away! Even if you miss the fellah is going to stop in his tracks.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back