Daniel Levy - Chairman

[Bedfordspurs]

My main point isn't really whether we would've won those trophies or not. My argument is that up to this point we have underpaid compared to our competitors. Unless we consider our main competitors to be Everton then I think it's clear that we have.

We have paid a wage the players were happy with... hence why none caused a stick to leave

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If you don't pay the big wages then you don't get the best players. Being significantly lower payers than Liverpool got us NJie and Sissoko instead of Mane and Wjinaldum for example.

Yeah
We couldn’t afford their wages at the time
But we did get siggy and Dempsey when pool couldn’t or wouldn’t afford theM before that... it happens

 

[Baleforce]

If we win some trophies then I doubt I'll be telling stories to the grand kids about us having the 'best ROI'. If we don't win any trophies I still doubt I'll be telling stories to the grandkids of our 'best ROI'.

We won't win trophies if the club isn't run properly.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

We won't win trophies if the club isn't run properly.

Portsmouth, Wigan, Birmingham, Boro, Blackburn and Swansea did in the last 20 years. Think they all paid extremely good wages compared to their status and they’ve all turned out ok..

I jest of course. I’m hoping the purse strings loosen now we are in the new stadium and the last 20 years of capital investments have come to an end. The signs from the last 2 transfer windows is that they are.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

If we win some trophies then I doubt I'll be telling stories to the grand kids about us having the 'best ROI'. If we don't win any trophies I still doubt I'll be telling stories to the grandkids of our 'best ROI'.

The plan is that this oh so fallow period (go over to the canning town caravan club thread for some perspective) is the price we (you) pay to give your grandkids the best possible chance of a trophied era.

And even you might be around to see it

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Probably peoples' expectations are converging though, regardless of which side they fall on. I think most people are saying that now we've finished all of the major infrastructure projects, know where we are financially etc, we can start to unleash some of this financial power we've been building towards for years. That we can now prioritise the footballing side sometimes, rather than always the business side. If in 5 years time we're still operating in a similar way...I'd have a few more questions to be honest

I agree with this, i think most people with a rational head on will be thinking this. It would be silly to blow up about it at this stage. It's the 'turn the tap on' phase and of course its Levys hand on that tap, the eyes will rightfully be on him. Some of us have been better at seeing the long term plan and some of us have agonised over the near misses and coulda/woulda/shoulda scenarios, but as you say all that converges now.......its the bit we should all be enjoying and looking forward to.

Ironically coming so close under Poch has probably not helped by raising expectations, as just 'a little more of this' 'a little more of that' might have pushed us over the line, that is a natural discussion, but of course non-conclusive.It almost feels like fans would have rather not have done it, because the disappointment is so hard to stomach. But hey, lets not look at it negatively, it still gave us great cup runs, a shot at the title race and of course our first appearance in the biggest club game on the planet.

 

[Bishop]

I agree with this, i think most people with a rational head on will be thinking this. It would be silly to blow up about it at this stage. It's the 'turn the tap on' phase and of course its Levys hand on that tap, the eyes will rightfully be on him. Some of us have been better at seeing the long term plan and some of us have agonised over the near misses and coulda/woulda/shoulda scenarios, but as you say all that converges now.......its the bit we should all be enjoying and looking forward to.

Ironically coming so close under Poch has probably not helped by raising expectations, as just 'a little more of this' 'a little more of that' might have pushed us over the line, that is a natural discussion, but of course non-conclusive.It almost feels like fans would have rather not have done it, because the disappointment is so hard to stomach. But hey, lets not look at it negatively, it still gave us great cup runs, a shot at the title race and of course our first appearance in the biggest club game on the planet.

The only issue I have with that arguement is that you're speaking about a tomorrow that might happen when we exist in the present. You can plan for the future and you should, but if an opportunity presents itself o6n front of you today you should always take the steps you can to maximise that opportunity because in football especially there is no guarantee that opportunity will arise again.

My hope is Levy does now maximise any opportunities that come out because I think he has been guilty of not doing so in the past.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

The signing players, paying more wages, even the managers ability discussions/arguments are all very interesting to a point BUT if you instantly transfer those discussions to City Utd Chelsea etc....what are their fans saying about their teams failings?

Chelsea take whole seasons off.
Utd are like a dead fish in the sea
City cant get anywhere near winning the CL

I mean money,signings,wages are no problem for any of them.

City think 'we'll get the (supposedly) best manger' check 'give him all that he desires' check = nowhere near CL winners. Why? What are they discussing?

This isn't an excuse but a valid reason could simply be: In our league there are 4/5 rivals with plenty of clout ready to stand in your way for the 3 main prizes, and in Europe similar. Of course, in most of those competitions the big spenders navigate through but even the majority of them fall along the way. We fell everytime but we weren't big spenders.

 

[StephenH]

because I think he has been guilty of not doing so in the past.

When?
Proof?

Or literally you just 'think'?

I 'think' we should have bought Grealish! But I have no idea of the detail of deal or how their new investment 'allegedly' blew it out of the water.
There must be many such "opportunities" of this type, I would imagine in any given season.

 

[scaramanga]

We won't win trophies if the club isn't run properly.

We won't do anything at all if the club isn't run properly.

It's the easiest thing in the world to gamble with someone else's money.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

The only issue I have with that arguement is that you're speaking about a tomorrow that might happen when we exist in the present. You can plan for the future and you should, but if an opportunity presents itself o6n front of you today you should always take the steps you can to maximise that opportunity because in football especially there is no guarantee that opportunity will arise again.

My hope is Levy does now maximise any opportunities that come out because I think he has been guilty of not doing so in the past.

But you are saying that without knowing any details of those moments in time.

It really does boil down to whether you trust Levy implicitly or you dont?

'Maximise' is really saying, push the boat out, go beyond what we can afford or our budget, as the (potential) rewards will out weigh it?

Its emotive.

Levy doesn't do emotion. If we couldn't afford a deal (fee,wages whatever) we dont do it. That doesn't make him guilty unless you dont trust the way he operates.

He could equally say 'the (potential) downsides would financially destabilise us'.

There have been times where we probably have had the money and not getting the deal over the line in time has been more to do with the complicated nature of transfer negotiations. Levy's fault?

 

[Finney Is Back]

We have paid a wage the players were happy with... hence why none caused a stick to leave

Or the clubs who would've taken players off of us couldn't pay a combination of the wage demand from the player and the transfer fee demanded by our club. I would say that both Wanyama and Danny Rose are cases in point there.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We won't win trophies if the club isn't run properly.

True. Although considering we have just had perhaps the leanest 20 years in the entire history of our club could one argue that the club hasn't been run properly?

 

[Finney Is Back]

The plan is that this oh so fallow period (go over to the canning town caravan club thread for some perspective) is the price we (you) pay to give your grandkids the best possible chance of a trophied era.

And even you might be around to see it

I hope so. The Canning Town Bingo and (anti)Social Club have traditionally always been a much smaller club than we have. They have probably been punching above their weight these last few years having not suffered a relegation.

 

[billyiddo]

Trophies have almost exclusively been shared around the original sky top 4 over the last 20 years with of course Emirates Marketing Project gate crashing the party of late - our lack of trophies is directly linked to the closed shop nature of the league that formed during the Sky tv/CL money years - pointing the finger of blame at the man who has actually managed to drag us to a position where we can finally compete with those clubs financially is absurd frankly

 

[Baleforce]

True. Although considering we have just had perhaps the leanest 20 years in the entire history of our club could one argue that the club hasn't been run properly?

I think thats kinda skewed by the changes in the game due to the PL and the CL, it arguably hasn't been any leaner than the preceding 20 years where we were even further away from a league or CL title, the domestic cup wins in that period were not building blocks for anything else, conversely they tended be followed by losing key players and taking steps backwards.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Or the clubs who would've taken players off of us couldn't pay a combination of the wage demand from the player and the transfer fee demanded by our club. I would say that both Wanyama and Danny Rose are cases in point there.

But neither caused an issue to leave
So actually they didn’t want to leave because they were paid well I’d argue

 

[Finney Is Back]

But you are saying that without knowing any details of those moments in time.

It really does boil down to whether you trust Levy implicitly or you dont?

'Maximise' is really saying, push the boat out, go beyond what we can afford or our budget, as the (potential) rewards will out weigh it?

Its emotive.

Levy doesn't do emotion. If we couldn't afford a deal (fee,wages whatever) we dont do it. That doesn't make him guilty unless you dont trust the way he operates.

He could equally say 'the (potential) downsides would financially destabilise us'.

There have been times where we probably have had the money and not getting the deal over the line in time has been more to do with the complicated nature of transfer negotiations. Levy's fault?

I certainly trust Levy to do what he feels is right for the club. I have a huge amount of respect for the man and appreciate what he has done and is doing at our club (although he is well rewarded for that financially).

My only real argument in this thread today was to the notion that we aren't underpaying for players, or at least haven't been doing so these past several years. Of course there are reasons why our budget hasn't been able to be as big as the rest of the top 6 teams and I fully understand those. However if we consider ourselves to be a team that should be directly competing with Emirates Marketing Project, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal then it is abundantly clear that we have been underpaying.

The only real criticisms that I have of Levy (and they really aren't huge ones) are when 'the deal' becomes more important than the player the manager wants. Grealish is a very good example here as our offer on the very last day of the window was significantly more than the amount requested by Birmingham at the start of the window. Compare and contrast Leicester's dealings with Norwich for Maddison and ours with Villa for Grealish.

The only other time that I have been frustrated was when we had a genuine chance of winning the league in January and didn't even try to push the boat out for a couple of players that manager wanted. That didn't just cost us a shot at the title but also eventually a place in the CL. I get that Levy was putting the financial future of the club first, but sometimes, just on the odd occasion you have to grasp the opportunity and push the boat out to take that final step. perhaps akin to the way that Liverpool did in paying such huge fees for VVD and Allison?

The 4 years of pretty much zero net spend during stadium rebuild, I completely understand. Levy stated that the stadium and player budgets were two completely separate things and I think at the outset that was true. Going over budget though meant that the money usually used to invest in the squad would have to go towards costs of the large capital project. That is completely understandable and I think the only thing that the club could've done as I doubt we could've taken on an even higher level of debt than the one we ended up with.

Is Levy one of the best club chairman in football? Absolutely..... he has made many great decisions for the club
Is Levy one of the best football club owners in football? Absolutely not.... the best owners put their personal wealth into a football club, Levy is instead generating a vast personal wealth out of the football club.
Would I rather have him or take my chances on somebody else? I think I would be more inclined to stick than twist.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think thats kinda skewed by the changes in the game due to the PL and the CL, it arguably hasn't been any leaner than the preceding 20 years where we were even further away from a league or CL title, the domestic cup wins in that period were not building blocks for anything else, conversely they tended be followed by losing key players and taking steps backwards.

What?..... In the preceeding 20 years we won 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup and 1 League Cup?

I don't think under Levy's stewardship we have been any less likely to lose key players than we were back in the previous 20 years. Judas, Carrick, Bale, Modric, Berbatov, Keane, Eriksen. All of them in the best two or three players at the club when they left.

 

[parklane1]

Probably peoples' expectations are converging though, regardless of which side they fall on. I think most people are saying that now we've finished all of the major infrastructure projects, know where we are financially etc, we can start to unleash some of this financial power we've been building towards for years. That we can now prioritise the footballing side sometimes, rather than always the business side. If in 5 years time we're still operating in a similar way...I'd have a few more questions to be honest.

Sorry for cutting the rest of your post out but the above bit is probably the most relevent post in this discussion (imo). I have had to shake my head at times over the criticism Levy has received over our so called " penny pinching" antics over the least several years but the chances are if he had not done what he has/ the way he has we would not be in the great position now.

I think the signs are he is already showing his willingness to increase spending ( the last two windows should show that even to the doubters), but as you say he has to keep doing that and if he does not then the moaning minnies will have a case ( at long last). IMO