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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

I think the first thing that we should establish is that this isn't a black and white issue. There aren't goodies and baddies, there are a range of people trying to do difficult jobs under difficult circumstances and all of them have got things wrong.

I would be amazed if we bought Mourinho in for a short term bounce. I think that we probably viewed it as a two to three year appointment and recognised that meant changes in the squad.

I'm not bothered about Arsenal winning a game. They've got an even bigger job to do than us and they have appointed a rookie.

How and when do you see the changes playing out?

I think we need the following:

1st choice LB
1st choice RB
1st choice DCM
Back up striker
Additional AM with pace
Potentially a CB but I see Dier dropping in there once the midfield is sorted.

It’s a huge undertaking and we’ve already been tipped off that nothing will happen in Jan. I do actually think January is a bad recruitment time unless it’s a long term target that suddenly became available.
 
Poch has gone and it’s pointless that people insist that we now measure Jose using exactly the same parameters or conditions of what Poch and his fate was judged on, particularly for Levy. Eg, Poch didn’t have a load of money to spend, the squad got jaded/tired and the this was a contributing factor to his and the teams poor run. If Levy accepts that Jose needs to spend to get us out of this rut, let’s be thankful if it happens. I guess my point is it’s not about being “right”, including this forum, it’s about getting out of the mess we’re in, and if the parameters need too change for this to happen, let’s be thankful for a change in direction (fingers crossed) then insist that Jose also needs to work with his hands tied.

Great post!
 
Lets be really honest here. Yesterdays game was terrible. There was not one thing about the game that you could take any comfort from. But since Jose has taken over we have had some games, maybe not the whole 90 mins but big parts of games where we have looked like a team again. The question is, was that just the new Manager bump that we got, or was is that going to be more of the norm than what was seen before.

Dele seemed to change his game after Jose Came back in, knuckled down, was working harder and doing the simple things right. Against Brighton and Soton he was back to his worst, losing the ball all over the pitch, look lackluster when he had it and trying a lot of flicks that never came off. Yesterday watching Dele got me so frustrated. Lazy passes, lazy movement. Without him or a fully functional Eriksen, and with Son suspended we just look uncomfortable in attack. And we need our attack because we cannot keep a clean sheet for anything, no matter what formation we play.

It was a hard game to watch. We looked bad all over. We also KEEP conceeding the first goal. A very big problem for us.

I am a Dele defender but I think most players that cover the ground he does (check the recent numbers) would look cream crackered after 4 games in 11 days. Forget all the nonsense about how much are they paid etc. They are elite sportsman who need to be operating around 95-100%. As soon as that drops they are going to look a bit off the pace.

How many top Prem players played all 4 over Xmas? (And played well?). I had a good look at KDB yesterday - he basically played holding midfielder and pushed Foden on because he simply must be shattered!

PS The Dele/Jose bounce is a myth imo. Poch only had him back for 4 games in which he scored 2 goals (both our only goals of the games). He would have kicked on again under Poch imo.
 
Poch has gone and it’s pointless that people insist that we now measure Jose using exactly the same parameters or conditions of what Poch and his fate was judged on, particularly for Levy. Eg, Poch didn’t have a load of money to spend, the squad got jaded/tired and the this was a contributing factor to his and the teams poor run. If Levy accepts that Jose needs to spend to get us out of this rut, let’s be thankful if it happens. I guess my point is it’s not about being “right”, including this forum, it’s about getting out of the mess we’re in, and if the parameters need too change for this to happen, let’s be thankful for a change in direction (fingers crossed) then insist that Jose also needs to work with his hands tied.

What have you seen or heard that suggests Jose is going to get the financial backing to refresh the squad? And why wouldn’t they have just let Poch do that. I think they brought Jose in to get a tune out of the current crop and tbh, is not really working.

I hope some funds are made available as there’s refreshment needed in several areas.
 
What have you seen or heard that suggests Jose is going to get the financial backing to refresh the squad? And why wouldn’t they have just let Poch do that. I think they bought Jose in to get a tune out of the current crop and tbh, is not really working.

I hope some funds are made available as there’s refreshment needed in several areas.

I haven’t heard anything. One of the points i tried to make is that Levy needs to be dynamic enough to change what was perhaps his original strategy - ie make do with the current crop, and we as fans should accept this, if it takes the club forwards out of this mess, rather than insist we maintain the same constraints Poch had, just so we can “compare apples with apples” for any MP/JM debate, whilst the club continues to struggle.
 
Where did you get this fantasy from?
Mourinho said when he came in that he likes the squad and he doesn't need to buy. He's said it multiple times.
He indicated multiple times that no one is coming in January.
I don’t believe he has said much at all publicly and it’s mainly been press speculation
I’d love to see some actual quotes
 
Poch has gone and it’s pointless that people insist that we now measure Jose using exactly the same parameters or conditions of what Poch and his fate was judged on, particularly for Levy. Eg, Poch didn’t have a load of money to spend, the squad got jaded/tired and the this was a contributing factor to his and the teams poor run. If Levy accepts that Jose needs to spend to get us out of this rut, let’s be thankful if it happens. I guess my point is it’s not about being “right”, including this forum, it’s about getting out of the mess we’re in, and if the parameters need too change for this to happen, let’s be thankful for a change in direction (fingers crossed) then insist that Jose also needs to work with his hands tied.

I think you've misunderstood where people are coming from over the last few pages - i don't think anyone is saying Jose *needs* to work with his hands tied behind his back just that at the moment *he is* currently working with the same tired/jaded/unbalanced/past it squad that Poch had to work with and that we won't progress until that is changed - and that the club has made a rod for it's own back a little by not backing the manager with the overhaul that he called for and so have a certain section of the fanbase who argued vehemently against the idea of the squad needing an overhaul at all.

BoL is right however that Levy has gambled a lot by appointing Mourinho, we've attempted to short term fix a long term problem when in reality asides from a few extra points from a new manager bounce the likelihood is the season plays out how it would have done and we still need to rebuild.

If Mourinho has to work under the same constraints as Poch then we're in trouble as we've already seen what happens when a top manager has to work with this squad (the last 12 months) and also what happens when JM doesn't get what he wants in the market (his last job)
 
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We have 30pts.

Mourinho won us 16 of them in 9 games (1.78 ppg).

Poch was at 14 pts in 12 (1.17 ppg).

Mourinho is already outperforming Poch, despite having no time with the players, and despite being dropped in mid season.

He doesnt have the luxury of experience and knowledge of the players, existing relationships etc. Or of them knowing him and his expectations/methods etc.

Yes, he is running into similar issues, and at times making similar mistakes.

Seems rather foolish, to me at least, to be trying to hold him to the same expectations at this point though.

And even if you are - he is actually doing better...
 
I think you've misunderstood where people are coming from over the last few pages - i don't think anyone is saying Jose *needs* to work with his hands tied behind his back just that at the moment *he is* currently working with the same tired/jaded/unbalanced/past it squad that Poch had to work with and that we won't progress until that is changed - and that the club has made a rod for it's own back a little by not backing the manager with the overhaul that he called for and so have a certain section of the fanbase who argued vehemently against the idea of the squad needing an overhaul at all.

BoL is right however that Levy has gambled a lot by appointing Mourinho, we've attempted to short term fix a long term problem when in reality asides from a few extra points from a new manager bounce the likelihood is the season plays out how it would have done and we still need to rebuild.

If Mourinho has to work under the same constraints as Poch then we're in trouble as we've already seen what happens when a top manager has to work with this squad (the last 12 months) and also what happens when JM doesn't get what he wants in the market (his last job)


I didn’t read every post in fairness, but you one below, certainly gave me that impression. Apologies if I misunderstood and took it in isolation, i see from previous posts that you probably didn’t mean it the way it reads below, as i say, in isolation.


“Oh so now we need time patience and a new squad

Couldn't make it up.

One thing you forgoe when you jump on the manager merry go round with a short term appointment like Mourinho is the calls for patience and time, even less so when the previous manager was thrown out because you sided with the quality of the squad over him - Mourinho has to deliver, now and with these players, it's what you all demanded of Pochettino and so it's only fair it should be demanded of Jose.

The fudging cheek of it”
 
I didn’t read every post in fairness, but you one below, certainly gave me that impression. Apologies if I misunderstood and took it in isolation, i see from previous posts that you probably didn’t mean it the way it reads below, as i say, in isolation.


“Oh so now we need time patience and a new squad

Couldn't make it up.

One thing you forgoe when you jump on the manager merry go round with a short term appointment like Mourinho is the calls for patience and time, even less so when the previous manager was thrown out because you sided with the quality of the squad over him - Mourinho has to deliver, now and with these players, it's what you all demanded of Pochettino and so it's only fair it should be demanded of Jose.

The fudging cheek of it”
What manager is a long term appointment now ?
I mean pep signed a 3 year deal
Klopp wasn’t long term and has been extended
 
Mourinho, Pochettino or whoever will be judged by results. However, is at the helm they will be judged equally at the end of the day. All this claptrap about this love for Poch and the coolness towards Jose by some is nauseating. Jose will be toast if his poor form goes on too long the same as Pochettino.
Levy is not stupid he will know we need to reinforce. The problem is who will be identifying and more importantly vetting their suitability to our league and the demands on our targets both physically and mentally.

We must improve our transfer system. Every club brings in an odd dud or three but we have turned it into a recurring event.
 
Mourinho, Pochettino or whoever will be judged by results. However, is at the helm they will be judged equally at the end of the day. All this claptrap about this love for Poch and the coolness towards Jose by some is nauseating. Jose will be toast if his poor form goes on too long the same as Pochettino.
Levy is not stupid he will know we need to reinforce. The problem is who will be identifying and more importantly vetting their suitability to our league and the demands on our targets both physically and mentally.

We must improve our transfer system. Every club brings in an odd dud or three but we have turned it into a recurring event.
With the difference being those successes have been very big ones too
Transfers are tricky. Clubs have to speculate with EVERY transfer due to the nature of dealing with human beings in an ever moving beast of an industry
 
I haven’t heard anything. One of the points i tried to make is that Levy needs to be dynamic enough to change what was perhaps his original strategy - ie make do with the current crop, and we as fans should accept this, if it takes the club forwards out of this mess, rather than insist we maintain the same constraints Poch had, just so we can “compare apples with apples” for any MP/JM debate, whilst the club continues to struggle.
The strategy is clear. He provides the numbers that move in line with the constraints he has.

The constraints ease the purse strings loosen...up to the % set.
 
With the difference being those successes have been very big ones too
Transfers are tricky. Clubs have to speculate with EVERY transfer due to the nature of dealing with human beings in an ever moving beast of an industry

Sadly we are failing with the vast majority choices it has dragged us down. We cannot continue to rely on a small group like Harry and Dele as they, I fear, could be doing an Eriksen soon.
I'm not sure as to why this has happened and the buck will stop with Levy of course but its not the player we haven't bought that are the problem it is the ones we have.

Don't get me started on the "academy".
 
I didn’t read every post in fairness, but you one below, certainly gave me that impression. Apologies if I misunderstood and took it in isolation, i see from previous posts that you probably didn’t mean it the way it reads below, as i say, in isolation.


“Oh so now we need time patience and a new squad

Couldn't make it up.

One thing you forgoe when you jump on the manager merry go round with a short term appointment like Mourinho is the calls for patience and time, even less so when the previous manager was thrown out because you sided with the quality of the squad over him - Mourinho has to deliver, now and with these players, it's what you all demanded of Pochettino and so it's only fair it should be demanded of Jose.

The fudging cheek of it”

Yeah that was a bit of a drunken red mist rant tbf

But people wanted the change because they felt the issue was the manager and they weren't willing to give him time and a new squad, bit of an about turn to now plead patience imv (even though that is what is needed)
 
We have 30pts.

Mourinho won us 16 of them in 9 games (1.78 ppg).

Poch was at 14 pts in 12 (1.17 ppg).

Mourinho is already outperforming Poch, despite having no time with the players, and despite being dropped in mid season.

He doesnt have the luxury of experience and knowledge of the players, existing relationships etc. Or of them knowing him and his expectations/methods etc.

Yes, he is running into similar issues, and at times making similar mistakes.

Seems rather foolish, to me at least, to be trying to hold him to the same expectations at this point though.

And even if you are - he is actually doing better...


Ignoring totally we played Liverpool, City, arsenal and Leicester away under poch (and took points BTW), whereas Jose has had a much kinder run.
 
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