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Leaving Jacksons Ranch

Yeh I am with that, too much smoke without fire.

The guy was a troubled soul but I think thats probably more reason why
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Been done to death already, hasnt it?

One of those where his fans are (I find) really quite aggressive about it in his defence, but its impossible to imagine there wasnt something to it. Far too much smoke...
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Agree. A grown man sleeping in bed with other people's kids? Obvious nonce imo. And they paid that kid off in the 90s, paid him millions.

And what the phuck was up with all the parents involved? Need shooting.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Whole thing with the parents doesnt bare thinking about (but really deserves scrutiny).
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Parents and the industry need heavy scrutiny.

It comes down to responsibility.
I don't think it's realistic to judge MJ by societal norms, because he was never part of or exposed to societal norms.

He was created by an industry for our entertainment.
I don't think he can be held or considered responsible (i use that word in all contexts).

There were, however, plenty of responsible adults (I would not class MK as an adult at any point) around.
I suspect many of them put dollar before decency.
 
I agree with most of that, but not that he cannot be held responsible.

I saw the other day Gary Lineker say David James would only ever wear pants fresh out of the box. Every pair was new and then discarded, no matter how long he wore them for. I would wager he wasnt buying the 5 pack in Primark either, I expect they were designer and so I dread to think the thousands he has spent on pants. This is a guy who had a pretty regular upbringing, who found himself a very wealthy man, and then developed this rather strange and (IMO!) extravagent behaviour.

Its a simple example, and we all know of many more (and more severe) of riches changing people and their behaviours. Add to which an abusive and bizarre childhood and Ive absolutely no doubt MJ was far from the most sane or normal of people.

I have no doubt he was a complete mess, none at all. However, that he tried to hush what allegedly happened, that he was secretive, manipulative and supposedly actively grooming these children - it shows he knew what he was doing and he knew it was wrong.

Which means he is responsible.

Him and Ive no doubt a few others around him for enabling it all.


The parents though? I wouldnt even consider a request from my kids to go spend time with a random adult unsupervised. Its mental to actually think through that they did. And I think you are right, I imagine $$$ was a big factor in them doing so.

Funny how that side of it is so rarely brought up.
 
Its a hugely tough one, I don't get where people or why people around him did not say to him "hang one, this does not feel right having all these kids over"
 
Grays_1890 said:
Its a hugely tough one, I don't get where people or why people around him did not say to him "hang one, this does not feel right having all these kids over"
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I'm guessing it comes down to money. He might have had people in his employ who told him something like that, I'm guessing he'd have fired them. At the other end of the scale, you have people making lots of money off of the Michael Jackson brand who just didn't want to rock the boat to keep the $$$ rolling in. Even now he's dead, that'd probably still an issue.
 
the dza said:
I'm guessing it comes down to money. He might have had people in his employ who told him something like that, I'm guessing he'd have fired them. At the other end of the scale, you have people making lots of money off of the Michael Jackson brand who just didn't want to rock the boat to keep the $$$ rolling in. Even now he's dead, that'd probably still an issue.
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Its mad, totally bonkers.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I agree with most of that, but not that he cannot be held responsible.

I saw the other day Gary Lineker say David James would only ever wear pants fresh out of the box. Every pair was new and then discarded, no matter how long he wore them for. I would wager he wasnt buying the 5 pack in Primark either, I expect they were designer and so I dread to think the thousands he has spent on pants. This is a guy who had a pretty regular upbringing, who found himself a very wealthy man, and then developed this rather strange and (IMO!) extravagent behaviour.

Its a simple example, and we all know of many more (and more severe) of riches changing people and their behaviours. Add to which an abusive and bizarre childhood and Ive absolutely no doubt MJ was far from the most sane or normal of people.

I have no doubt he was a complete mess, none at all. However, that he tried to hush what allegedly happened, that he was secretive, manipulative and supposedly actively grooming these children - it shows he knew what he was doing and he knew it was wrong.

Which means he is responsible.

Him and Ive no doubt a few others around him for enabling it all.


The parents though? I wouldnt even consider a request from my kids to go spend time with a random adult unsupervised. Its mental to actually think through that they did. And I think you are right, I imagine $$$ was a big factor in them doing so.

Funny how that side of it is so rarely bought up.
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tickle my balls with a feather. MJ was messed up from childhood, money and fame surely didn't help, but that doesn’t excempt him from responsibility.

The parentes though...that, I suspect, is where you'll find the biggest culprits. Shows that money can corrupt anyone.

Haven't seen the documentary, BTW.
 
Someone made a pretty good point earlier.

If the parents were wrong with leaving their kids with MJ we are basically saying he was a nonce yeh? Because if he was innocent then they were using good judgement in leaving their kids with an innocent man? The fact people blame the parents means he was a threat right?
 
Robbo said:
tickle my balls with a feather. MJ was messed up from childhood, money and fame surely didn't help, but that doesn’t excempt him from responsibility.

The parentes though...that, I suspect, is where you'll find the biggest culprits. Shows that money can corrupt anyone.

Haven't seen the documentary, BTW.
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I think of my kids.......think of leaving them in a suspect situation.....think what the heck, they'll be money in it for me...

D'you know what. I THINK I MIGHT VOMIT.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Someone made a pretty good point earlier.

If the parents were wrong with leaving their kids with MJ we are basically saying he was a nonce yeh? Because if he was innocent then they were using good judgement in leaving their kids with an innocent man? The fact people blame the parents means he was a threat right?
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I don't think I'd be letting my kids sleep with another adult whether I thought they were innocent or not. It's not a good example to set them, and any adult that wants to sleep with kids is not quite right imv.
 
glasgowspur said:
I don't think I'd be letting my kids sleep with another adult whether I thought they were innocent or not. It's not a good example to set them, and any adult that wants to sleep with kids is not quite right imv.
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No I get that, I was talking more from the staying over at the ranch than in the same bed.

The more I see and read and the more I think about it when you consider the english football scandal, I start to think he is guilty. Havign kids over, abusing your power, people around you doing nothing in fear of bringing down an established set up. Its amazing how similar all these things pan out
 
Grays_1890 said:
No I get that, I was talking more from the staying over at the ranch than in the same bed.

The more I see and read and the more I think about it when you consider the english football scandal, I start to think he is guilty. Havign kids over, abusing your power, people around you doing nothing in fear of bringing down an established set up. Its amazing how similar all these things pan out
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I think he is guilty, but I'm not sure how far he went.
He strikes me as a cliff Richard, Kenneth Williams type, a bit disgusted by it all but also fascinated by it.
 
Grays_1890 said:
No I get that, I was talking more from the staying over at the ranch than in the same bed.

The more I see and read and the more I think about it when you consider the english football scandal, I start to think he is guilty. Havign kids over, abusing your power, people around you doing nothing in fear of bringing down an established set up. Its amazing how similar all these things pan out
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Which begs the follow up question; is brick like this going on today? Are celebrities abusing kids with the silent consent of people around them? Or has the world moved on?
 
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