***OMT SPURS vs Soton***

[Bedfordspurs]

Might be wrong
In fact I’m sure I’m wrong
But isn’t March normally a month we struggle in?!?

 

[glasgowspur]

Oh yeah, Kane was atrocious re his finishing in the first 10 minutes, not even getting some of those on target....

They weren't easy chances, although he could have taken touches and made them easier. He seemed to go for the spectacular today.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I really wouldn’t assume anything is correct because Tony Gale is calling it out.

Kind of irrelevant who the commentator was; i myself (and no doubt many other watching) could see Alli was ot of gas and becoming a liabiliy in that he was becoming more peripheral, making less good passing decisions and less able to hold onto possession. It's times like this that 'getting minutes into them' hits a crunch point.

I tend to side with Poch on this. The collapse today was mental. You’re not saying we look knackered when we’re beating Dortmund 4-0 in the CL, it’s in bread and butter league games where we are making stupid mistakes in seemingly every game. I think complacency has crept into the squad and I think a good few of the players know their time is up, and so we don’t have the advantage of what used to make us really strong in that everyone was
pulling in the same direction and super bought in.

I think it's easy to let the Dortmund games cloud our judgement of how the players have been playing for a long while now: we dodn't play that differently in the Dortmund games vs our league and cup games since January if we're honest. The second half vs Dortmind was of course a high point but remember they had key injuries in that match and when those players returned they totally dominated us in the first half earlier in the week when we could barely keep hold of the ball. I enjoyed both legs like everyone else but we should be careful in saying the results of those two games (vs a team who are going on a bigger downturn than us btw) are indicators that our other performances since January reflect "a lack of motivation"; like i said last week, the motivation is there but the well is empty is more ways that one...

I still believe in the whole idea of getting minutes into them and I don’t believe they are physically struggling now. I think it’s a mental problem linked to complacency, and presenting as a lack of concentration in the crucial moments. With the CL, when a lot of these players may know that they’ll potentially never play in such big games at such a late stage again, I think the motivation has appeared easier and more natural.

I disagree as i've outlined above, the way we played today is similar to how we've been playing this calender year; when was the last time we played well for more than a half in a match?

The first half today looked like proper Poch football. We were pressing, we looked totally in control, we were moving the ball well and creating chances.

Agreed...but...

It didn’t look like a late season limp effort.

...taking the game over the whole overall it WAS limp. Of course it would have helped isf we took more of our chances in the first half, but the drop-off is symbolic of the fact we cannot play well for the majoriy of a game anymore...again, things are catching up with us i feel..

And Poch knows. He puts a lot of stock in how the players appear to be carrying themselves and he can tell who is playing within themselves and who is playing to their potential. He called it out as a mental problem post match and I don’t see any reason to disagree with it.

He has said things about the players mentality for a few weeks now; so if that's the case why doesn't he, say, drop Eriksen, who is a player who anyone could label with lacking 'mentality'? He plays every just about every minute no matter how limp. After a while constantly blaming the players "mentality", still picking said players and them still producing such displays starts to reflect much more poorly on Poch tbh...As i say, i think they are spent and our chickens (i.e. not getting extra bodies into the squad in the summer for the purposes of freshening things up/keeping those already here on their toes) are coming home to roost..

The more Pochg keeps blaming 'mentality' yet still picks largely the same team the more i think he's losing a grip of the situation

 

[P.D.]

I think it all boils down to the midfield, we've not been able to play a settled line up there and players have been injured regularly and when you lose control of midfield you lose control of everything else.

No signings doesn't help either, you need fresh players in the squad to mix things up personality wise in the dressing room and put pressure on others for positions. Many players respond when they have pressure for their place and we haven't had this.

There's too much of a reliance on Alli and Eriksen who rarely get dropped and when they're not playing or out of form we don't have effective replacements.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Might be wrong
In fact I’m sure I’m wrong
But isn’t March normally a month we struggle in?!?

Nope...not since his first season..in fact looking at the numbers of losses, who we are losing to (who we didn't used to) everything looks like we are about to be in a car crash re top 4...

 

[Hashegotthesackyet?]

As miffed as i am, i see us getting a draw as a minimum against the wall pushers. It will be typical Spurs!

 

[SpurMeUp]

Dembele hasn’t been Dembele for over a year, we’ve not suddenly stopped winning games because he’s no longer around.

Sure he is past his best, but I disagree. With Toby and Dembele coming on off the bench second half, we win.

 

[Baleforce]

Sure he is past his best, but I disagree. With Toby and Dembele coming on off the bench second half, we win this game imo.

The talent we started it with should have had it sewn up by half time.

 

[glorygloryeze]

The talent we started it with should have had it sewn up by half time.

Whilst i agree with you, the fact we cannot hold out against the likes of Burnley and Southampton shows how much now we can be bullied into having to hang onto a big lead. In the past we'd have lamented not giving our goal difference a big boost whilst easily holding string and keeping the opposition out. We can't even park the buss effectively now..

 

[SpurMeUp]

The talent we started it with should have had it sewn up by half time.

Shoulda woulda coulda. Of course, but they didn't and our defense and midfield is light. Sissoko has played more or less every game. When we took off Morua, what we really needed was a replament for Alli. Someone to hold the ball, and help us take back control.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Kind of irrelevant who the commentator was; i myself (and no doubt many other watching) could see Alli was ot of gas and becoming a liabiliy in that he was becoming more peripheral, making less good passing decisions and less able to hold onto possession. It's times like this that 'getting minutes into them' hits a crunch point.



I think it's easy to let the Dortmund games cloud our judgement of how the players have been playing for a long while now: we dodn't play that differently in the Dortmund games vs our league and cup games since January if we're honest. The second half vs Dortmind was of course a high point but remember they had key injuries in that match and when those players returned they totally dominated us in the first half earlier in the week when we could barely keep hold of the ball. I enjoyed both legs like everyone else but we should be careful in saying the results of those two games (vs a team who are going on a bigger downturn than us btw) are indicators that our other performances since January reflect "a lack of motivation"; like i said last week, the motivation is there but the well is empty is more ways that one...



I disagree as i've outlined above, the way we played today is similar to how we've been playing this calender year; when was the last time we played well for more than a half in a match?


Agreed...but...



...taking the game over the whole overall it WAS limp. Of course it would have helped isf we took more of our chances in the first half, but the drop-off is symbolic of the fact we cannot play well for the majoriy of a game anymore...again, things are catching up with us i feel..



He has said things about the players meteorology for a few weeks now; so if that's the case why doesn't he, say, drop Eriksen, who is a player who anyone could label with lacking 'meteorology'? He plays every just about every minute no matter how limp. After a while constantly blaming the players "meteorology", still picking said players and them still producing such displays starts to reflect much more poorly on Poch tbh...As i say, i think they are spent and our chickens (i.e. not getting extra bodies into the squad in the summer for the purposes of freshening things up/keeping those already here on their toes) are coming home to roost..

The more Pochg keeps blaming 'meteorology' yet still picks largely the same team the more i think he's losing a grip of the situation

Again, I don’t know how you can seriously characterise him as picking the same players. In today, Rose, KWP, Dier, Moura, Dele.

We could go back and forth on whether this is mental or physical, I just believe it is mental. We have enough bodies in the squad that we have two players for every spot minimum. The same thing happened after the Wolves game. ‘The players were tired’...he picked the exact same team 3 days later and they went to Cardiff and won 3-0. If we’re tired, we’re tired. We’re not too tired to beat Southampton but just fresh enough to beat Dortmund 4-0. I don’t think those performances were perfect, but a tired team pushing at its limit doesn’t get through in such a convincing way.

Poch knows. He can tell when the players are becoming complacent. But even so, this season he has rotated way more than any other. But he’s also had injury problems. He’s also had the World Cup semi finalists to deal with.

I think he knows that he is struggling to get the motivation back, hence the Burnley outburst. And I think players like Sissoko going crazy today also tie into that - the frustration is boiling over with the people that will be here longer term because they are seeing that something isn’t working and it’s difficult to change.

I think the players still care, every single one of them. The celebrations when Hugo saves that pen show that. But having a relentless focus to perform, improve, to concentrate, be ruthless etc. That’s the sort of thing that comes from within, and I think too many players are at the end of their cycle with us and know it.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Whilst i agree with you, the fact we cannot hold out against the likes of Burnley and Southampton shows how much now we can be bullied into having to hang onto a big lead. In the past we'd have lamented not giving our goal difference a big boost whilst easily holding string and keeping the opposition out. We can't even park the buss effectively now..

And in the past Dembele would have been brought on to shore up the game. Even having Toby available to bring on - an older head - to help the inexperience of KWP and Sanchez and risk taking of Rose, would have made a difference imo. Toby would have put the ball out for a corner kick.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Again, I don’t know how you can seriously characterise him as picking the same players. In today, Rose, KWP, Dier, Moura, Dele.

We could go back and forth on whether this is mental or physical, I just believe it is mental. We have enough bodies in the squad that we have two players for every spot minimum. The same thing happened after the Wolves game. ‘The players were tired’...he picked the exact same team 3 days later and they went to Cardiff and won 3-0. If we’re tired, we’re tired. We’re not too tired to beat Southampton but just fresh enough to beat Dortmund 4-0. I don’t think those performances were perfect, but a tired team pushing at its limit doesn’t get through in such a convincing way.

Poch knows. He can tell when the players are becoming complacent. But even so, this season he has rotated way more than any other. But he’s also had injury problems. He’s also had the World Cup semi finalists to deal with.

I think he knows that he is struggling to get the motivation back, hence the Burnley outburst. And I think players like Sissoko going crazy today also tie into that - the frustration is boiling over with the people that will be here longer term because they are seeing that something isn’t working and it’s difficult to change.

I think the players still care, every single one of them. The celebrations when Hugo saves that pen show that. But having a relentless focus to perform, improve, to concentrate, be ruthless etc. That’s the sort of thing that comes from within, and I think too many players are at the end of their cycle with us and know it.

Again i disagree re rotation; it's not today, but over a season re my feeling of lack of rotation - i think partrly because of Pochg himself, and partly because of neccesity due to not being able to. For example, why isn't Eriksen being rotated? We all know the answer to that.
Indeed, the World Cup and injuries have caused us problems, but by doing nothing in the summer (when it was clear last April we were already at the end of some players cycles) we have allowed those problems to derail us more than they should have (we aren't the only club who get injuries).

I think he knows we are struggling but the more he talks about mentality the more it looks like he is distancing himself from a lot of the blame: how many times can he keep doing that especially if he, say, keeps playing some of these players? If there really is a mentality issue, drop Eriksen, drop Kane, play Moura for 90 mins etc etc. If any player feels he is at the end of the cycle and is playing like it, drop them. He would have in the past, but he can't now and we know why, sadly..

 

[nayenezgani]

This was a game we failed to kill, first half we had three or four chances to put them out of it. Second half we tired and didn't have enough in reserve. It happens.

It was great to have Alli back he looked sharp, Eriksen was better with two midfielders protecting him.

KWP was disappointing for me, doesn't look ready for regular PL football. The defence failed once the pressure arrived, no doubt we will relish the break ahead.

COYS.

 

[90291Spur]

This was a game we failed to kill, first half we had three or four chances to put them out of it. Second half we tired and didn't have enough in reserve. It happens.

It was great to have Alli back he looked sharp, Eriksen was better with two midfielders protecting him.

KWP was disappointing for me, doesn't look ready for regular PL football. The defence failed once the pressure arrived, no doubt we will relish the break ahead.

COYS.

We also hit the woodwork twice.

 

[nayenezgani]

Sadly, as i said based on the Arsenal game last week, we look spent physically, mentally and tactically

@BrainOfLevy sadly, i think this is what happens when you play too many players without much rotation so you can "get minutes into them"....

How can you be spent tactically?

I agree we look a very tired side, but how could we not? We've had a fixture packed season and the most world cup minutes of any side.

Poch set the team up well today, first half showed that. The manager can't legislate for a Danny Rose brain fart and an inexperienced RB making a rash challenge. These things happen.

I'll repeat; the reason we didn't win today is that we turned down too many chances to kill the game. Plus we hit the wood work a couple of times.

We weren't poor, just profligate and then tired.

 

[the dza]

Cardiff are tinkle poor

True, unfortunately.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

And in the past Dembele would have been bought on to shore up the game. Even having Toby available to bring on - an older head - to help the inexperience of KWP and Sanchez and risk taking of Rose, would have made a difference imo. Toby would have put the ball out for a corner kick.

Yeah Dembele is proving a massive miss atm.

And it has to be said completely omitting aurier and toby today was just bizarre.

All round, today was a total fudge up from top to bottom.

 

[alekaras]

That's it. We can forget top 4. Failed to kill the game off when we dominated in the first half and then expected to be able to continue to stroll around without being challenged in the second. We seemed shocked that Southampton decided to give it a go.

This.

 

[glorygloryeze]

How can you be spent tactically?

I agree we look a very tired side, but how could we not? We've had a fixture packed season and the most world cup minutes of any side.

Poch set the team up well today, first half showed that. The manager can't legislate for a Danny Rose brain fart and an inexperienced RB making a rash challenge. These things happen.

I'll repeat; the reason we didn't win today is that we turned down too many chances to kill the game. Plus we hit the wood work a couple of times.

We weren't poor, just profligate and then tired.

Second half we were poor. Yes, we should have scored more in the first half. Yes, there were individual mistakes for their goals, could you not say the same for every goal scored/conceded?

Most importantly, we played today no differently to how we have mostly this year and we are not getting the breaks we were getting against, say, Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Leicester.

Sugar coat it all you like, but we are talking about Soton here, not even Watford or Leicester. And on the second half it was coming and if we tot up the chances missed i'm not sure we could say the defeat was undeserved.

When i say spent tactically, i think there seems little left in the tank from a tactical point of view, we have slowly been found out and are tactically running out of ideas imo