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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

I’d like to know how they did that given that the two of them were away for almost the entire summer. The common perception of Poch is also that once you let him down, you’re done. Toby and Rose let him down big time, particularly Rose. And now they are back in and pretty much have been since the start of the season.

They will have been in and around the squad last season too, neither were 'sent to the reserves' so to speak and i expect if Poch wasn't happy with their commitment off the field currently neither would be being played - same as always wuth players who don't show the right attitude. In fact i think if the transfer window was such a let down for him, especially with regards to the players he was left with, then i think a pretty straight forward way of demonstrating that would be to not play the likes of Rose and Alderwiereld
 
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I always thought the prospect of selling Toby and Rose (especially in the same window) was a faux pas. Now they have both been reintegrated back into the side, hey presto, most people who said we should sell them have instantly changed their minds and think they're brilliant again.

Dembele is a different kettle of fish. Normally we have an excellent track record of getting rid of players at the right time or cashing in on assets and maximising profit. With Dembele, it looks like we have held on to him for a season too long. Not to mention Wanyama and Winks's injury problems. It's the one position we need to upgrade on. Other than that, we really don't need much, just 1-2 players to gift the squad a lift and provide competition for places.

I don't think the window was a disaster, but I also don't think we need to pretend it was a success either. I don't recall many posters saying we would sign no one before the window closed so there seems to be some rewriting of history as the second the window closed, posters claimed they were pleased we didn't sign anyone as the most important thing was keeping our players. It's not like we had clubs knocking at our door for Toby, Rose and Dembele either, did anyone ever actually make an official bid for any of those players? Also bare in mind that Toby is still to sign a new contract so his situation is far from resolved.

I get that this is a Spurs board and a pro Levy/ENIC board in general, nothing wrong with that at all but sometimes people just need to call it how it is. Not saying everyone has to agree on everything all the time but it can't always be other clubs/chairmans faults for "moving the goalposts" or the greedy, insubordinate players for refusing to sign contracts. I look forward to similar stories about Eriksen and Vertonghen when the time comes for them to sit down and renegotiate their contracts.

I don't think the window was a massive success either (in the sense that success would see the squad transformed into one that could be a credible, consistent challenger to Emirates Marketing Project). But I put the blame on that down to external dynamics that meant that rather than this summer be the time to make our moves, we've put it off a year. And maybe it works out. We've kept money in the bank, the value of Rose should go back up, Wanyama hopefully recovers his fitness and proves his worth, and Toby either signs or goes but given he had this clause for next summer anyway his was always going to be a complicated transfer. The alternative was selling the likes of Wanyama and Rose and way below their market values just to get them out, and going to war with Dembele to force him out when he's still a perfectly serviceable hand. To sell Toby we would have had to proactively offer him for not much more than we would get next summer due to the clause anyway, so why not get an extra year, for 'free'?

I'd still sell Toby and Rose if we can get good replacements, but I'm enjoying the fact that with more regular football they seem to be coming back to form after injury problems. I want us to make our moves so we can be a consistent title challenger, but even so I think given the players we have, we still have enough competition for places and almost every player still has something to prove. Lloris and Kane are probably the only exceptions, in terms of not having competition but both are hopefully driven enough as leaders in our squad and are in those positions for a reason. Toby needs to prove he's got what it takes to get his big move next summer, but Sanchez is breathing down his neck. Aurier is looking much improved this season so Trippier can't rest on his laurels. Rose is looking back to form so Davies needs to keep his standards up. Wanyama is coming back to Dier can't afford to slip. Winks is going to be pushing Dembele all the way. Lamela, Moura, and Son to me is good depth in behind Eriksen and Dele, who will want to prove they are some of the best in their positions in the world. Dembele and Llorente are now the squads older folks, winding down, there for the experience and the calming influence. But every other player has a reason to push themselves.

I don't look at it like we were so lucky to keep our players or that it was great that we didn't sign anyone. I just think in the grand scheme of things, this wasn't the summer we decided to push on, and we decided next year was a better time to do it. We'll be in the stadium, the contract situations we'll be dealing with will be easier to navigate, we should hopefully have a bit more cash to play with, and hopefully we will get closer to the kind of bravery Poch was talking about. This summer though, it would have been a fine line between bravery and stupidity.
 
I don't look at it like we were so lucky to keep our players or that it was great that we didn't sign anyone. I just think in the grand scheme of things, this wasn't the summer we decided to push on, and we decided next year was a better time to do it. We'll be in the stadium, the contract situations we'll be dealing with will be easier to navigate, we should hopefully have a bit more cash to play with, and hopefully we will get closer to the kind of bravery Poch was talking about. This summer though, it would have been a fine line between bravery and stupidity.

I want to take your last paragraph and ask you honestly: did you believe before the transfer window opened in the summer that is wasn't the time to push on? Did you AT THAT TIME believe then that it was "a fine line between bravery and stupidity" to try and make some transfers to push the squad and the club on? Honestly?

I'm pretty sure that i NOT what your sentiments were at the time, but i'm happy to be proved wrong...
 
I want to take your last paragraph and ask you honestly: did you believe before the transfer window opened in the summer that is wasn't the time to push on? Did you AT THAT TIME believe then that it was "a fine line between bravery and stupidity" to try and make some transfers to push the squad and the club on? Honestly?

I'm pretty sure that i NOT what your sentiments were at the time, but i'm happy to be proved wrong...

Honestly, no. Or rather, I think we hear it every year. 'We are only a couple of signings away from really challenging'. We aren't, because every time we make two, wealthier clubs make 4. It's not about that. Firstly, we need to be operating on a financial platform that allows us to pay close to 6 figure weekly wages to squad players. Once we are able to do that, we are more likely to consistently challenge year after year, which is what I want.

So of course I want us to push on. But to do that, we need to be in the stadium and reaping the rewards from it. You can find many posts from me saying that there is a good chance that Toby stays because of the complexity of his contract situation. I expected Rose to be sold, but clearly his worth had plummeted. I expected Dembele to go, and I think that may be one player where we tried our luck to get paid over the odds from China, but it didn't work so we kept him.

But overall, in the grand scheme of things, when we make our big push, it will be because we are ready to do it. We will have the finances. We can move the players out that we need to. And we can get the ones that we want. I don't get too worked up about one summer or another, because I'm always thinking with the longer term in mind.

I'll tell you, once we are in the stadium....if we finish 6th every year for 3 years straight, I'll be really annoyed (unless there's maximum 5 points difference between 2nd and 6th). Because there's no reason why we should be the worst off out of the top 6. But right now, there is a reason why we should be 6th, and yet we have been top 3 in the last 3 years. So I'm delighted. And as a fan, I want us to be a consistent title challenger. But I understand the rest of the sport isn't going to fall in line because Tottenham decides its time to make the push. It takes patience. It takes smarts. And I can understand why this summer we decided against it. We need to get in a better financial position, and then start to compete. That is the way to stay up there long term, and that is what I want.

Making the transition from a top 6 / top 4 team to one that is a top 2 team is incredibly difficult. Making the type of changes to the squad to make that happen, on our budget, is further difficult still. To do that with the contract situations we had to deal with...just very, very tough. I don't really understand why people think this summer would be better than next. Because to me it feels like it means selling Rose way below his potential worth, Wanyama way below his potential worth, Toby at the same money we could get for him next summer, and to go to war with Dembele when he's never caused anyone any problem and would still be a good hand. At the end of the day, why not make those changes when we have a better financial platform, to get better players in, on better contracts, and compete on those terms. If we did it all this summer, selling those players below their worth, does that lock in our advantage against our rivals? No. It just puts us in a worse financial position because we've sold assets at way below their potential value. And Liverpool still would have signed who they signed, City would still be City, and Chelsea would still do what they do.

Getting into the stadium on a good financial footing is what Poch talks about when he says Levy has built a long term plan rather than investing all in the squad for short term success. I believe in that, because I want to be challenging consistently in the future, not just for one or two years before our old finances can't sustain it and we go down a negative spiral.
 
Honestly, no. Or rather, I think we hear it every year. 'We are only a couple of signings away from really challenging'. We aren't, because every time we make two, wealthier clubs make 4. It's not about that. Firstly, we need to be operating on a financial platform that allows us to pay close to 6 figure weekly wages to squad players. Once we are able to do that, we are more likely to consistently challenge year after year, which is what I want.

So of course I want us to push on. But to do that, we need to be in the stadium and reaping the rewards from it. You can find many posts from me saying that there is a good chance that Toby stays because of the complexity of his contract situation. I expected Rose to be sold, but clearly his worth had plummeted. I expected Dembele to go, and I think that may be one player where we tried our luck to get paid over the odds from China, but it didn't work so we kept him.

But overall, in the grand scheme of things, when we make our big push, it will be because we are ready to do it. We will have the finances. We can move the players out that we need to. And we can get the ones that we want. I don't get too worked up about one summer or another, because I'm always thinking with the longer term in mind.

I'll tell you, once we are in the stadium....if we finish 6th every year for 3 years straight, I'll be really annoyed (unless there's maximum 5 points difference between 2nd and 6th). Because there's no reason why we should be the worst off out of the top 6. But right now, there is a reason why we should be 6th, and yet we have been top 3 in the last 3 years. So I'm delighted. And as a fan, I want us to be a consistent title challenger. But I understand the rest of the sport isn't going to fall in line because Tottenham decides its time to make the push. It takes patience. It takes smarts. And I can understand why this summer we decided against it. We need to get in a better financial position, and then start to compete. That is the way to stay up there long term, and that is what I want.

Making the transition from a top 6 / top 4 team to one that is a top 2 team is incredibly difficult. Making the type of changes to the squad to make that happen, on our budget, is further difficult still. To do that with the contract situations we had to deal with...just very, very tough. I don't really understand why people think this summer would be better than next. Because to me it feels like it means selling Rose way below his potential worth, Wanyama way below his potential worth, Toby at the same money we could get for him next summer, and to go to war with Dembele when he's never caused anyone any problem and would still be a good hand. At the end of the day, why not make those changes when we have a better financial platform, to get better players in, on better contracts, and compete on those terms. If we did it all this summer, selling those players below their worth, does that lock in our advantage against our rivals? No. It just puts us in a worse financial position because we've sold assets at way below their potential value. And Liverpool still would have signed who they signed, City would still be City, and Chelsea would still do what they do.

Getting into the stadium on a good financial footing is what Poch talks about when he says Levy has built a long term plan rather than investing all in the squad for short term success. I believe in that, because I want to be challenging consistently in the future, not just for one or two years before our old finances can't sustain it and we go down a negative spiral.

This sounds all well and good, but how many summers are we going to have BOTH Chelsea and Arsenal out of the top 4? We even trolled about it with those posters saying our ground was "the only place in London where you could watch CL footy"?

What if next summer we are then having to use our new financial clout to attract players to play EL because we didn't push through our advantage now - to cement top 3, never mind challenge for the PL?
No doubt Arsenal - have have much more lustre and history over the last two decades than we - have had to overpay to keep theor best and attract good but aging stars, again because they fell asleep at the wheel and didn't push through the advantages they had for years plus didn't manage/rebuild properly, you have t wonder whether we will be saying the same thing.

Overall, it's better to rebuild - or start to rebuild - from a position of strength rather than a more desperate position of catch-up. I feel we have likely thrown away that position to rebuild in a relatively string position and it will cost us much more to do it next year. Who says that those 3 players you keep mentining will not be worth even less next year, again forcing us to spend even more...

I'm sure Pochettino agreed and likely signed his extension assuming everyone else at THFC agreed too; no point in building such a stadium if we aren't going to act like a club worthy of it. If we can pay Kane upwards of £300k BEFORE we've moved into the stadium, then we can't say we couldn't afford to bring in one or two players in and sell a couple even at somewhat knockdown prices to help keep us from opening it up with signs like "come and watch the Europa League in our new state-of-the-art stadium"...
 
This sounds all well and good, but how many summers are we going to have BOTH Chelsea and Arsenal out of the top 4? We even trolled about it with those posters saying our ground was "the only place in London where you could watch CL footy"?

What if next summer we are then having to use our new financial clout to attract players to play EL because we didn't push through our advantage now - to cement top 3, never mind challenge for the PL?
No doubt Arsenal - have have much more lustre and history over the last two decades than we - have had to overpay to keep theor best and attract good but aging stars, again because they fell asleep at the wheel and didn't push through the advantages they had for years plus didn't manage/rebuild properly, you have t wonder whether we will be saying the same thing.

Overall, it's better to rebuild - or start to rebuild - from a position of strength rather than a more desperate position of catch-up. I feel we have likely thrown away that position to rebuild in a relatively string position and it will cost us much more to do it next year. Who says that those 3 players you keep mentining will not be worth even less next year, again forcing us to spend even more...

I'm sure Pochettino agreed and likely signed his extension assuming everyone else at THFC agreed too; no point in building such a stadium if we aren't going to act like a club worthy of it. If we can pay Kane upwards of £300k BEFORE we've moved into the stadium, then we can't say we couldn't afford to bring in one or two players in and sell a couple even at somewhat knockdown prices to help keep us from opening it up with signs like "come and watch the Europa League in our new state-of-the-art stadium"...

I don't know. But every year since we first got the CL under Poch we've also always heard 'next year we won't have it as easy, Chelsea/Arsenal/United/Liverpool/City will be stronger next season', but lo and behold, the next two seasons, we have gotten back in to the top 3. We are doing something right.

If we drop into the EL, it will mean close to the square root of sod all to me right now. It will be frustrating as a fan, but Liverpool, United, Chelsea and Arsenal have all been there in the last few years while we've been in the CL, and they've all been fine. We absolutely can't have a strategy that is contingent on being in the CL when we can't sustain it. If we need CL money for the club's economics to work, we are going to be in a precarious position. We are in a position of strength, and we will be if we finish 5th or 6th, because we would have the finances to invest to get back to where we want to be.

To think we have 'thrown away' the position to rebuild I think is just not right. Our finances mean we can finish 6th and be ok - we absolutely can't have finances that mean we need to finish at least 4th when we are already competing with 5 clubs that are currently wealthier. We may have seasons of EL football in the future too. It won't be a disaster. Frustrating and annoying yes, but as long as are still on a good platform, we can invest to get back to where we need to be. The idea that everything is contingent on us pushing on this summer to me sounds like the mark of a small time club that knows its time in the sun is coming to an end and they need to keep chasing the dream...that isn't us. We are just waiting for the right time to strike.
 
To me this shows why Poch is a great leader. He's always had his principles and its something that's served him well, but the thing that tips him over the edge from being someone that gets lucky with one system and one club dynamic at one time (let's say AVB at Porto for example) is that he adapts depending on the situation at hand.

Yes, once you cross him, you are done. But selling them at their lowest value wouldn't have actually benefited the club this summer. Reintegrating them well would. Telling the whole squad that everyone starts from zero is his way of asserting authority. Playing Rose and Toby in big games is his way of regaining their loyalty.

These are the kind of problems big clubs have to deal with when they are home to massive egos and when its no longer a constant upswing, and when there is no pressure because we'll probably finish 5th or 6th and that will be ok, and if we lose players we will just start again. I'm a now at the point where to sign players to improve us is actually a tough ask given how good we are right now, so its less easy to be super principled, or to just give the academy players a chance. Poch has to now keep us up there because we want to be at the point where the next step for us is to be a consistent title challenger. So being overly principled is something that would hold him back. But he is a great leader, and recognises the need to adapt. He reasserts his authority and regains loyalty, but in a different way.

I admire your positivity.

However, while leaders must adapt to situations they must have some things that are red line issues for them and that they stick by. Poch is a great leader but he’s now in a situation where he’s having to compromise on one of those issues that arguably created such a strong bond within the club for 3-4 years.

When he got rid of the misfits he inherited, you got the sense you couldn’t mess with the guy. Now he may have set a precedent where players are thinking “fudge it, I’m going to rock the boat a bit here for more money/because we’ve signed nobody. Sure Danny and Toby did it and were reintegrated straight away when we couldn’t sell them.” Fergie isn’t the only template for management but there is no way he would have stood for what Rose and Toby have behaved. The message to the players is that Poch either isn’t as strong on his principles as we thought or he isn’t really calling all the shots.

All your talk of being aligned on strategy is logical and sounds great. But Poch is human like the rest of us and he won’t just be thinking long term. He’ll be very conscious of the short term and in a job like football management, you’d be an idiot to just be thinking 5 years down the road. He made that clear with his comments last season. The fact Balague spoke about Poch’s frustration last week can pretty much be taken as coming direct from Poch given how close they are.

If we don’t make CL this year, Poch will face a lot of criticism from fans. “You got us there for three seasons and now we finish 5th/6th. You’ve taken us as far as you can.” There are a lot of sensible Spurs fans, you included, who won’t take that view but we all only have to look at Twitter and Facebook to see how dumb the majority can be. They’re the people who put managers under pressure.

Then you look at his future job prospects. United and Madrid have been mentioned. Poch finishes 5th or 6th and suddenly he’s a fella that’s just achieving par with Spurs and hasn’t won a trophy. And he’s only managed Southampton and Espanyol previously. “Nah, let’s look at Zidane/Conte etc”. It doesn’t take long for perception to change.

He’s been shortchanged this summer. I don’t buy that it would have been hard to improve our squad. Sissoko and Llorente have been really poor for us. We have a very ordinary central midfield. Our centre backs are aging. We could have strengthened but we didn’t. And if anyone thinks Poch isn’t tinkled about that, you’re not being realistic.

Again, I’ll reiterate, I do think Levy has been brilliant for us and, while I do think he has a long term vision that could well pay dividends for us, I believe he got this summer badly wrong and failed Pochettino. We may well make top 4 this year but if we do, it’ll be down to a manager who is working miracles of ever increasing difficulty every season.
 
I don't know. But every year since we first got the CL under Poch we've also always heard 'next year we won't have it as easy, Chelsea/Arsenal/United/Liverpool/City will be stronger next season', but lo and behold, the next two seasons, we have gotten back in to the top 3. We are doing something right.

If we drop into the EL, it will mean close to the square root of sod all to me right now. It will be frustrating as a fan, but Liverpool, United, Chelsea and Arsenal have all been there in the last few years while we've been in the CL, and they've all been fine. We absolutely can't have a strategy that is contingent on being in the CL when we can't sustain it. If we need CL money for the club's economics to work, we are going to be in a precarious position. We are in a position of strength, and we will be if we finish 5th or 6th, because we would have the finances to invest to get back to where we want to be.

To think we have 'thrown away' the position to rebuild I think is just not right. Our finances mean we can finish 6th and be ok - we absolutely can't have finances that mean we need to finish at least 4th when we are already competing with 5 clubs that are currently wealthier. We may have seasons of EL football in the future too. It won't be a disaster. Frustrating and annoying yes, but as long as are still on a good platform, we can invest to get back to where we need to be. The idea that everything is contingent on us pushing on this summer to me sounds like the mark of a small time club that knows its time in the sun is coming to an end and they need to keep chasing the dream...that isn't us. We are just waiting for the right time to strike.

No one, including the poster you quoted, is saying we should have a model contingent on CL qualification. That’d be idiotic in a 6 horse race for 4 places where 1-2 of the positions are already taken.
 
I don't think the window was a disaster, but I also don't think we need to pretend it was a success either. I don't recall many posters saying we would sign no one before the window closed so there seems to be some rewriting of history as the second the window closed, posters claimed they were pleased we didn't sign anyone as the most important thing was keeping our players.
Oh definitely, I don’t think anyone has claimed it was a great success, at least I’ve not seen it?

The only time I get involved is when i see posters saying “it was an unmitigated disaster on every level”. I just think that line of thought is ridiculous and completely without context.

I’m sure Poch would love to spend the sums that Klopp and Pep have, but I’m also sure he’s well aware he came to a club that doesn’t do that. He signed his contract only a few months ago knowing exactly how we do business.
 
Oh definitely, I don’t think anyone has claimed it was a great success, at least I’ve not seen it?

The only time I get involved is when i see posters saying “it was an unmitigated disaster on every level”. I just think that line of thought is ridiculous and completely without context.

I’m sure Poch would love to spend the sums that Klopp and Pep have, but I’m also sure he’s well aware he came to a club that doesn’t do that. He signed his contract only a few months ago knowing exactly how we do business.

Has anyone here claimed it was an unmitigated disaster on every level?
 
I thought that’s what was said at the weekend, but just found the actual wording below that triggered me! so pretty similar:

“The window was a fudge up all round”

Fair point.

We are talking about this like the club had actually much of a choice.

The club had a choice. This wasn’t a “sign no one” or “spend and put all our eggs in one basket” decision.

It was a question of how much risk Levy was willing to take. He could have taken some without mortgaging our future. He decided to play it very safe financially.
 
I don't know. But every year since we first got the CL under Poch we've also always heard 'next year we won't have it as easy, Chelsea/Arsenal/United/Liverpool/City will be stronger next season', but lo and behold, the next two seasons, we have gotten back in to the top 3. We are doing something right.

If we drop into the EL, it will mean close to the square root of sod all to me right now. It will be frustrating as a fan, but Liverpool, United, Chelsea and Arsenal have all been there in the last few years while we've been in the CL, and they've all been fine. We absolutely can't have a strategy that is contingent on being in the CL when we can't sustain it. If we need CL money for the club's economics to work, we are going to be in a precarious position. We are in a position of strength, and we will be if we finish 5th or 6th, because we would have the finances to invest to get back to where we want to be.

To think we have 'thrown away' the position to rebuild I think is just not right. Our finances mean we can finish 6th and be ok - we absolutely can't have finances that mean we need to finish at least 4th when we are already competing with 5 clubs that are currently wealthier. We may have seasons of EL football in the future too. It won't be a disaster. Frustrating and annoying yes, but as long as are still on a good platform, we can invest to get back to where we need to be. The idea that everything is contingent on us pushing on this summer to me sounds like the mark of a small time club that knows its time in the sun is coming to an end and they need to keep chasing the dream...that isn't us. We are just waiting for the right time to strike.

One could argue that the mark of a small club is one that shouts with bells and whistles about a new stadium, has an ambitious manager saying he wants us to 'be brave' but instead literally buys absolutely no-one with a premise of somehow "the squad is sooo good it cannot be improved - even though we finished over 20 points off the eventual winners and fell over the line into the top 4."

One man's 'bravery' is another man's 'cowardice' i guess.

"Waiting for the right time" is also the preserve of the small club, one could say. Anyway, nice discussing regardless, i'll try to stay away from discussing the window until at least the usual "will we/won't we" January dancing..
 
I admire your positivity.

However, while leaders must adapt to situations they must have some things that are red line issues for them and that they stick by. Poch is a great leader but he’s now in a situation where he’s having to compromise on one of those issues that arguably created such a strong bond within the club for 3-4 years.

When he got rid of the misfits he inherited, you got the sense you couldn’t mess with the guy. Now he may have set a precedent where players are thinking “fudge it, I’m going to rock the boat a bit here for more money/because we’ve signed nobody. Sure Danny and Toby did it and were reintegrated straight away when we couldn’t sell them.” Fergie isn’t the only template for management but there is no way he would have stood for what Rose and Toby have behaved. The message to the players is that Poch either isn’t as strong on his principles as we thought or he isn’t really calling all the shots.

All your talk of being aligned on strategy is logical and sounds great. But Poch is human like the rest of us and he won’t just be thinking long term. He’ll be very conscious of the short term and in a job like football management, you’d be an idiot to just be thinking 5 years down the road. He made that clear with his comments last season. The fact Balague spoke about Poch’s frustration last week can pretty much be taken as coming direct from Poch given how close they are.

If we don’t make CL this year, Poch will face a lot of criticism from fans. “You got us there for three seasons and now we finish 5th/6th. You’ve taken us as far as you can.” There are a lot of sensible Spurs fans, you included, who won’t take that view but we all only have to look at Twitter and Facebook to see how dumb the majority can be. They’re the people who put managers under pressure.

Then you look at his future job prospects. United and Madrid have been mentioned. Poch finishes 5th or 6th and suddenly he’s a fella that’s just achieving par with Spurs and hasn’t won a trophy. And he’s only managed Southampton and Espanyol previously. “Nah, let’s look at Zidane/Conte etc”. It doesn’t take long for perception to change.

He’s been shortchanged this summer. I don’t buy that it would have been hard to improve our squad. Sissoko and Llorente have been really poor for us. We have a very ordinary central midfield. Our centre backs are aging. We could have strengthened but we didn’t. And if anyone thinks Poch isn’t tinkled about that, you’re not being realistic.

Again, I’ll reiterate, I do think Levy has been brilliant for us and, while I do think he has a long term vision that could well pay dividends for us, I believe he got this summer badly wrong and failed Pochettino. We may well make top 4 this year but if we do, it’ll be down to a manager who is working miracles of ever increasing difficulty every season.

Poch has given certain players rope again. And in doing that, he's also helping players like Kane, Dele, Eriksen etc who I'm positive would want quality, experienced players in the team to help them achieve what they want to achieve. But he's given them rope, said we are where we are, and this year we start from zero again. But I fully believe that if any of the players that have been given a second chance decide to act out again, they will be out of the side. What is important is what the culture of the squad allows. He had to move out the bomb squad in his first year because it was toxic, and the best way to establish the mentality he wanted was to use young players who would listen and do what they were told.

Now, the culture is established, everyone is bought in. If any of them mess up again, I'm 100% positive they will be out. I also don't think, for instance, that Toby is going to earn a new contract with us. Even if in the new stadium we can afford 130 or even 150k a week (and I can't see him getting much more elsewhere) I think the trust was broken and its not like he will suddenly be totally forgiven. So I think Poch has his principles, but poor leadership is cutting your nose to spite your face. It was the right move to let go of the bomb squad, the best thing for the club. Now we are in a different position and the right move is different. He's given them rope, he's actually given them more than enough rope because by playing them in big games he has earned their loyalty again. But there's no reason why he won't bomb them out if they cross him during this season. In fact I think he'd almost relish it, as well as be hugely disappointed in whoever does it if they do.

I find it interesting that you lay the blame for the summer at Levy, even though Poch's fingerprints are all over the squad build and subsequent handling. We can all accept he wants a tight knit squad, everyone knowing their role, everyone feeling like they have a fair chance based on their experience but enough competition to keep the standards high. He wants people that are team orientated, and doesn't want bad apples that think they deserve more than they are getting. It's a delicate balance, but it's been one of the absolute keys to our success. With that in mind, I absolutely think Poch wanted to push on this summer, but when he and Levy were confronted with the realities of the situation, they decided to stick rather than twist. It's clarity of their strategy and it's why we will continue to punch above our financial weight. Adding new players in without selling experienced ones first is not a way to build the type of squad I outlined above. Similarly, we can't bomb out experienced players in the same way we did in the first season because we are now in a position where our level is higher and we can't simply throw youth in to compensate for the losses. We need to more carefully manage how we move out quality, and replace it with quality if we want to sustain our level and push on.

I would say keeping the squad tight knit, with all of the characteristics I outlined above, was Poch's choice. The fact that we only got seriously down the line with a player like Grealish, who absolutely would have come in to be a squad player and not have too many expectations (after it was clear we hadn't sold the players we wanted to shift) was Poch's choice. Giving Rose and Toby enough space to prove themselves again was a strong move.

Of course there are better players out there than Llorente and Sissoko, but again, apply the context to it...Sissoko is a perfectly serviceable squad player who does a job, that is respected by his teammates (and is credited with helping a fair proportion of them settle) and doesn't complain about his role. What benefit is there to forcing him out? He has the exact characteristics (both physical and team orientation) that Poch likes. He's a squad player. Why go to war with a player like that who isn't expecting any more than he already has? Llorente is an international tournament winner and experienced back up for a striker that doesn't want to miss any games. We tried it with a young player who had something to prove. We've tried it with an experienced player on the way down who is happy with the bench. Who is the player that wants to come and sit behind Kane that is guaranteed to be better?

I honestly think the bond between Levy and Poch is far greater than a disaster scenario happening should he finish 5th or 6th. Because I think Levy totally appreciates the position Poch has with the team this summer. He knows its tough. I don't think Levy cares much about the Facebook mob either. And I believe that keeping the squad tight knit was Poch's choice, if we couldn't push on. Levy was the guy who told Jol we were signing Jenas even though we had Davis, Mendes, Carrick, and GHod knows who else in central midfield. Because he saw a deal. I think he's perfectly happy to spend money if he thinks it's worth it. But how the squad makeup has been handled since, it's a Poch thing as much as a Levy thing.
 
No one, including the poster you quoted, is saying we should have a model contingent on CL qualification. That’d be idiotic in a 6 horse race for 4 places where 1-2 of the positions are already taken.

So with this context, what is it that you wanted? A couple of signings I presume, but in what position? And why would those signings be better for us this season than a Toby back in form, a Rose back in form, a Wanyama back in form etc etc?

Or to put it another way, why would it be better for us to sell Toby for say £25M now, and sign De Ligt, rather than get another season out of Toby and sign De Ligt later? We effectively get the additional Toby season for free.

Why would it be better to sell Rose at the absolute bottom of his value and replace him now, rather than letting himself get back up to speed and sell him next year? Why would it be better to sell Wanyama at rock bottom, etc etc?

I don't see why we are in the position to take bigger losses in these players, that have previously performed well for us, rather than get additional 'free' seasons out of them? At a minimum, we sell Rose for the same price next summer because he's a year older but back in form. We probably make more money on him though, and we've had a good season out of him. So I ask, why in your mind is: Sell Rose For Less and Replace Now better for us than Sell Rose For More and Replace Later?

I know you think Levy could be taking more risks, but specifically, how would he do it, and why would it be better for us than what actually happened?
 
So with this context, what is it that you wanted? A couple of signings I presume, but in what position? And why would those signings be better for us this season than a Toby back in form, a Rose back in form, a Wanyama back in form etc etc?

Or to put it another way, why would it be better for us to sell Toby for say £25M now, and sign De Ligt, rather than get another season out of Toby and sign De Ligt later? We effectively get the additional Toby season for free.

Why would it be better to sell Rose at the absolute bottom of his value and replace him now, rather than letting himself get back up to speed and sell him next year? Why would it be better to sell Wanyama at rock bottom, etc etc?

I don't see why we are in the position to take bigger losses in these players, that have previously performed well for us, rather than get additional 'free' seasons out of them? At a minimum, we sell Rose for the same price next summer because he's a year older but back in form. We probably make more money on him though, and we've had a good season out of him. So I ask, why in your mind is: Sell Rose For Less and Replace Now better for us than Sell Rose For More and Replace Later?

I know you think Levy could be taking more risks, but specifically, how would he do it, and why would it be better for us than what actually happened?

A couple of decent signings. Not necessarily risky youth. We can afford more than that. But I wouldn’t have been against sending Rose out on loan for a fee with an option to buy. That way he builds his value back up. Bring in Sessegnon maybe? He’s young but has undoubted quality. Davies’ form has dipped this year. Is that a sign that he’s rattled by Rose getting back in?

We badly needed a midfield player. Liverpool found Keita. Chelsea found Jorginho and Kovacic. Why weren’t we in for those lads or someone similar?

Grealish would have been decent as well. Not first choice but an option in a position we are weak.

We could also have gotten more for Toby. Next season he’s worth 25m. Last summer, he was worth more than that.

Again, I’ll reiterate that for all your talk of long term strategy, a football manager like Pochettino has to think short term too because that’s the nature of the beast. He could be a run of bad results or a bad league finish from the sack. And it’ll be the Facebook mob that put Levy under pressure because they aren’t just keyboard warriors - a lot of them go to the games.

If Poch was satisfied with the window or even willing to accept it, why is the journo he is closest to leaking like the Titanic recently that Poch could go elsewhere and wasn’t backed in the summer?
 
I thought that’s what was said at the weekend, but just found the actual wording below that triggered me! so pretty similar:

“The window was a fudge up all round”

It was, I don’t see how it can be spun as a positive window.

We didn’t sign anyone to improve the squad, we didn’t sell anyone we wanted rid off

The two main points of the window.
 
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