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Politics, politics, politics

I'm happy to say that I think May's a fudging tool and that her religion plays a major part of that.

I can only speak for myself, but my issue with Khan is the fact that he talks like a fudging brickie.

Goldsmith's a clam too, for the record.
 
the dza said:
Or "if you criticise the actions of the state of Israel, you obviously hate Jews" akin to "if you criticised Idi Amin's Uganda, you obviously hate black people."

Labour has to make sure they get rid of anti-semitic cranks from the party. But we can walk and chew gum at the same time -- this issue is blown up by Corbyn's opponents not because they really think he's the 2nd coming of Hitler, but because they hope to bring him down and get their own faction back in charge of the party. And also, because Corbyn thinks the Palestinians shouldn't be treated so badly by Israel, nothing he says or does will be good enough for the 'Labour friends of Israel' and their associated MPs. For example, when Corbyn spent passover with a Jewish organisation, he was criticised -- as these were simply the wrong type of Jew (ones that were supportive of the Labour Left).

It's like clockwork, Labour goes 5% ahead across various polls and the anti-semitism stuff goes back into the news cycle again.
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Excellent post mate. I am struggling to understand why antisemitism is afforded more protection than other forms of racism. Its all equally unacceptable. The government of Israel and those who support it should not be afforded a shield from their actions by screaming antisemitism at their critics. That is suppressing legitimate discussion and scrutiny of their actions. It also cheapens the racism debate imo. Critisism of Israel's actions is no different from criticising say Robert Mugabe.

I am no corbynista but the drum beating on this certainly seems to come from the anti corbyn wing which disgusts me and blows most of its credibility out of the water.

That said if Corbyn was a strong leader rather than a prevaricator and if he was sure of his position on the matter he would publicly call out the likes of chukka umuna and Hodge. While at the same time show no tolerance to actual cases of antisemitism.

I mean when the Daily Mail, the original mouthpiece of the british far right, starts calling Labour anti semitic that's just laughable and it demonstrates how badly Corbyn has handled the debate.
 
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Robspur12 said:
Excellent post mate. I am struggling to understand why antisemitism is afforded more protection than other forms of racism. Its all equally unacceptable. The government of Israel and those who support it should not be afforded a shield from their actions by screaming antisemitism at their critics. That is suppressing legitimate discussion and scrutiny of their actions. It also cheapens the racism debate imo. Critisism of Israel's actions are no different from criticising say Robert Mugabe.

I am no corbynista but the drum beating on this certainly seems to come from the anti corbyn wing which disgusts me and blows most of its credibility out of the water.

That said if Corbyn was a strong leader rather than a prevaricator and if he was sure of his position on the matter he would publicly call out the likes of chukka umuna and Hodge.

I mean when the Daily Mail, the original mouthpiece of the british far right, starts calling Labour anti semitic that's just laughable and it demonstrates how badly Corbyn has handled the debate.
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The far right no longer has the monopoly on racism - Corbyn's lot give them a good run for their money. Don't forget that much of the UKIP surge came from traditional Labour voters who were disillusioned when the party became reasonable in the 90s.
 
Robspur12 said:
Excellent post mate. I am struggling to understand why antisemitism is afforded more protection than other forms of racism. Its all equally unacceptable. The government of Israel and those who support it should not be afforded a shield from their actions by screaming antisemitism at their critics. That is suppressing legitimate discussion and scrutiny of their actions. It also cheapens the racism debate imo. Critisism of Israel's actions is no different from criticising say Robert Mugabe.

I am no corbynista but the drum beating on this certainly seems to come from the anti corbyn wing which disgusts me and blows most of its credibility out of the water.

That said if Corbyn was a strong leader rather than a prevaricator and if he was sure of his position on the matter he would publicly call out the likes of chukka umuna and Hodge.

I mean when the Daily Mail, the original mouthpiece of the british far right, starts calling Labour anti semitic that's just laughable and it demonstrates how badly Corbyn has handled the debate.
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You've got a point, there's a lot to be said for going on the attack. Though I think part of his (Corbyn's) appeal is that he isn't like that, he's not gonna go for the Trump route for example. For me, it's policies that matter, that and being able to have faith that the people espousing the policies will at least sincerely attempt to deliver them. So for that reason, he gets my support. He could do better in a lot of ways, most definitely. But I'm not seeing much else out there to get behind. I think, when you get down to it, he's a decent human being too, and people calling him racist etc. are talking some bullsh1t imo.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm happy to say that I think May's a fudging tool and that her religion plays a major part of that.

I can only speak for myself, but my issue with Khan is the fact that he talks like a fudging brickie.

Goldsmith's a clam too, for the record.
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We really are lacking in decent people who are in positions to do decent things for the people.

#showerofsh*t
 
scaramanga said:
I'm happy to say that I think May's a fudging tool and that her religion plays a major part of that.

I can only speak for myself, but my issue with Khan is the fact that he talks like a fudging brickie.

Goldsmith's a clam too, for the record.
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And JRM?
 
scaramanga said:
The far right no longer has the monopoly on racism - Corbyn's lot give them a good run for their money. Don't forget that much of the UKIP surge came from traditional Labour voters who were disillusioned when the party became reasonable in the 90s.
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That's just laughable. When it comes to racism, Labour and the left don't hold a candle to this Tory government, nevermind the far-right (then again, this Tory government pander to the far right now anyway).

If you can tell me how many politically/racially motivated murders and attempted murders have taken place in the UK by left-wing activists the past couple of years and see if it stacks up by those committed by the far-right, then you might have a point. Hint: Joe Cox was killed by a neo-nazi. The guy who ran over those people outside of a mosque also wanted to kill Jeremy Corbyn, he wasn't a left-winger either.
 
scaramanga said:
The far right no longer has the monopoly on racism - Corbyn's lot give them a good7 run for their money. Don't forget that much of the UKIP surge came from traditional Labour voters who were disillusioned when the party became reasonable in the 90s.
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We know racism is not restricted to one socioeconomic, political or racial group. During the referendum campaign, I was shocked to listen to the views of members of my own family of British Asians speak in really derogatory terms about Eastern European migrants.
 
the dza said:
You've got a point, there's a lot to be said for going on the attack. Though I think part of his (Corbyn's) appeal is that he isn't like that, he's not gonna go for the Trump route for example. For me, it's policies that matter, that and being able to have faith that the people espousing the policies will at least sincerely attempt to deliver them. So for that reason, he gets my support. He could do better in a lot of ways, most definitely. But I'm not seeing much else out there to get behind. I think, when you get down to it, he's a decent human being too, and people calling him racist etc. are talking some bullsh1t imo.
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Mate I feel totally lost with the Labour Party at the moment despite being a member. Don't believe Corbyn has the right leadership qualities to take the party into government, I distrust Mcdonnell and don't get me started on the hypocrite that is Emily Thornberry.

Yet equally, I cannot bear the whingeing from the right of the party, the likes of Chuka Ummuna, Caroline Flint and David Miliband who have effectively put Corbyn where he is.

With the shambles that is the Conservative Party, the Labour Party should be in a strong position to capitalise, sadly they are not.
 
the dza said:
That's just laughable. When it comes to racism, Labour and the left don't hold a candle to this Tory government, nevermind the far-right (then again, this Tory government pander to the far right now anyway).

If you can tell me how many politically/racially motivated murders and attempted murders have taken place in the UK by left-wing activists the past couple of years and see if it stacks up by those committed by the far-right, then you might have a point. Hint: Joe Cox was killed by a neo-nazi. The guy who ran over those people outside of a mosque also wanted to kill Jeremy Corbyn, he wasn't a left-winger either.
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As with most things racism occupies a wide spectrum. Extreme racism and violence is mostly associated with the far right. But the casual "dinner party" racism is not exclusive to any group.
 
Robspur12 said:
As with most things racism occupies a wide spectrum. Extreme racism and violence is mostly associated with the far right. But the casual "dinner party" racism is not exclusive to any group.
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I agree with that. But imo, if you go through the levels, from activist, to council level, to MP, you'll find more racists and racism on the right than on the left. That's in terms of policy and behaviour. The left ain't perfect and has plenty of cranks, but imo it's not close. And then when you get to the extremes, it's almost exclusively far-right that are to blame in the UK.

Robspur12 said:
Mate I feel totally lost with the Labour Party at the moment despite being a member. Don't believe Corbyn has the right leadership qualities to take the party into government, I distrust Mcdonnell and don't get me started on the hypocrite that is Emily Thornberry.

Yet equally, I cannot bear the whingeing from the right of the party, the likes of Chuka Ummuna, Caroline Flint and David Miliband who have effectively put Corbyn where he is.

With the shambles that is the Conservative Party, the Labour Party should be in a strong position to capitalise, sadly they are not.
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I can't argue with a lot of that to be honest. I'd say just vote for what you think is right. And don't necessarily be a member of a political party for the sake of it, if you feel they aren't giving you anything to get behind then why should you? I never intended to join a political party. The chance came to vote Corbyn the first time round and I just really felt compelled to pay the £3 and do it, as well as persuading others to do the same. When he won, I thought "phuck it, I'll join as he will probably get stitched up now and will need all the members behind him that he can get." As it turned out, that was a good call and he needed votes again. I'll be a member of Labour for as long as I feel they give policies that I believe in a fair hearing. If things go a different way and I don't feel there was anything to get behind, then I'd leave.
 
Goldsmith is a clam, but he’s not smart enough to run a campaign of that level, the negative messaging came from CCHQ.
 
Yeah, I don't mean the result of the vote in isolation -- but what he's saying about, basically, having to be in the EEA to be a part of the regulatory system for medicines. Almost as if the government, by binding themselves by legislation to be part of the EMA, are binding themselves to EEA membership.
 
the dza said:
That's just laughable. When it comes to racism, Labour and the left don't hold a candle to this Tory government, nevermind the far-right (then again, this Tory government pander to the far right now anyway).

If you can tell me how many politically/racially motivated murders and attempted murders have taken place in the UK by left-wing activists the past couple of years and see if it stacks up by those committed by the far-right, then you might have a point. Hint: Joe Cox was killed by a neo-nazi. The guy who ran over those people outside of a mosque also wanted to kill Jeremy Corbyn, he wasn't a left-winger either.
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I don't think we should measure evil by how successful it's believers are at achieving their aims. Racism is racism - there's no grey scale, it's black and white (for want of a better term).

I dislike extremism from any end of the political spectrum. I dislike the UKIP and BNP racist extremists every bit as much as I do Corbyn and his lot. I don't see any wiggle room in there for accepting any of them.
 
milo said:
That wasn't the tone of Goldsmith's racist mayoral campaign though. They used (crude) racial profiling to send targeted material spreading lies and fear based on Khan's faith. And then of course there was this

ChXv-2zWYAELzmA.jpg
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I have no issue with that image or headline (I'll assume the context of the article is well represented by them).

Corbyn has described terrorists as friends, when questioned on it he even repeated it, I believe.
 
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