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World Cup 2018 Semi Finals

If ever there was a "game of two halves", last night was it.
We looked like a totally different team second half, allowed Croatia to get a foothold in the game and just didn't know how to seize back control. Some of that is down to Southgate.

But, gutted as I felt last night, and still do now, this has been a fantastic few weeks. Watching England with a sense of pride rather than despair or - worse - indifference, has been so enjoyable.
A glorious summer, everyone in a good mood, a young England team enjoying their football, no media sniping, expectations being exceeded - England reaching a semi-final for Ghod's sake! What's not to like. Roy Keane berates us for getting too excited, but why the hell shouldn't we? What's the point if you have to keep it all in check in case you get knocked out. Yes, we fell at the penultimate hurdle in what has been a great, but missed, opportunity to reach the Final, made all the harder to bear knowing it was within our grasp and we let it slip away. There are lessons to be learned, some tweaking of the squad needed going forward. But for all the times since the golden generation when we have heard/said how we need to re-build from scratch, this time it actually feels like that is what we are doing.
 
I think the biggest achievement of this team is not the Semi final, its winning back the interest of people like me.

For 20 years Ive not given a fudge about the England team. Not because Im a misery, or because I didnt want to, but because thats what they deserved. Football was always secondary to hype, ego, big names, money... it was never a "team".

This England side? Genuine, humble, an actual properly put together squad. The Everton goalkeeper, Leicester defender - because they were the best options - rather than Utd/Arsenal/Chelsea cast offs because they are big club. An identity, a style of play, unity between the players and them with the manager.

This squad was not perfect, and I actually think things could have been done better (they always can) but they have been the first "proper" England set up I can remember since 96 (maybe 2000).

And for that I am grateful, I actually have an interest in the international games again.
 
Bit of a moan/thoughts
  • First Ive ever really paid attention to Pickford, I like him. Has he got tourettes?
  • Stones impressed me a great deal, he has grown a lot (and yes, I know he made a mistake)
  • Ive liked Maguire since Hull, Im glad people are really appreciating him now
  • Young is a fudging useless LWB
  • Not a fan of Walker at CB, but he did ok considering its not his position. Would prefer a proper round peg/round hole player there
  • Sterling is an enigma, pace, trickery, workrate, and fudge all to show for it
  • Alli was magnificent, the brains in midfield, and had to be because
  • Hendersen and Linguard are not intelligent players
  • Trippier really came of age, if we play 3 at the back this season I can see him having a monster year
  • The team does not suit Kane at all, its like they are on a completely different wavelength to him.
  • Even so, Kane has been magnificent, working his socks off - making things happen and being the creative impetus so often needed.

Sterling suffered, fundamentally, from two things for me. 1) Young. Having nothing on the left meant all play was centre or right, he was getting no service from the left at all, no early balls, nothing in the channel that he thrives on. Trippier set him free a few times on the right - he needed that on the left. Southgate made a huge rooster up in not recognising it. 2) He just doesnt jive with Kane, and Kane was compromised as a result of accommodating Sterling. Unless he can learn to play with him this could become this generations Gerrard/Lampard fiasco.

For everyone clamouring for Rashford to come on in his place? Well that happened yesterday and Rashford was worse!

Linguard. Theres something charming about him. He works tirelessly, and has Kante levels of fitness, has pace, skill... And yet somehow seems a bit brick as well. Brainless. I dont know that he has much of a future in the team, but Ive learned some appreciation (and frustration) for him.

Hendersen. Plays for Liverpool, I dont rate him, these statements are unrelated. He did do better than I expected, but by and large reinforced the views I already had. He is a very limited player. Tries his best, works very very hard, but ultimately comes up short. Another I dont expect to really hold a place in the team. He did show a passing ability I didnt credit him for, played some absolute beauties over the tournament, so hands up I didnt see that coming.

Alli - I suspect will get a "6" in most ratings we'll see, but honestly I thought he was magnificent throughout. His work in CM was absolutely top notch IMHO. He played with the smarts to make a CM3 work alongside Hendersen and Linguard, both of which he had to make look good by taking the right positions for recieve the ball or cover runs etc. Im so glad he got a goal as well, thoroughly deserved.

Young - Ive said it all already. Retire him.

Kane - is this the year he became a man? Seems to have grown, stepped up, to my eye. I look forward to how he handles himself in the coming season.

Southgate - I have gratitude for him giving me my England back. I think the squad he picked was mostly the right one, with Wellbeck and Jones shaped exceptions (why no Tarkowski?). I think the team he picked was mostly the right one. I think sticking religiously to that team was not the right move, changes needed to be made and he either refused or failed to recognise, which is the major disappointment with him. I dont know if he just had a plan to play a settled side, or if he actually thought that was the best option. Time will tell on that one, but regardless he has created a great deal of hope and optimism, which successive managers have outright failed to come close to doing.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
This is why I didn't share the hoopla about "football coming home" and all that crap because this was not a great squad of players and they never really played well, unless you count the game against Panama, which I don't. In saying that though, I really thought we threw it away. Completely stopped playing after half time. Couldn't Southgate see it? What did he do to remedy it. What was he saying when our defenders and Pickford were repeatedly hoofing the ball forward to the Croatian goal keeper? Really boils my tinkle to see such a collapse and nothing much being done. However, the Croatian coach did plenty. They couldn't make a five yard pass in the first half hour, but he saw England's weakness rejigged his formation and put England on the rack. We only got off for a brief moment before Trippier went off, when Rose started pinning them back, but too little too late.
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Although he took us to a semi (great for any England manager) we have to acknowledge Southgate s inexperience.
He formulated a plan, just one plan, and then stuck rigidly to the same 11 to deliver it. Now in the circumstances this may well have been the best approach but it's probably not gonna win you the thing and the opening up of the draw probably helped as much to get us where we did as anything Southgate did.

He's likeable and appears decent to the players and in front of the press, but he is inexperienced, and if you compare the speed of the learning curve to someone like Poch who has his team and players around him 24/7, it's hard to develop ideas and philosophies.

People talk about the system of 3 at the back and being wedded to it, what we need is full flexibility, like Poch developed with us, change to a four at the flick of a switch. And that's where Southgate can get a head start, by harnessing what the players already know from Poch Pep Klopp and run with it, he has so little time with the group there is no point trying to re-invent the wheel, go with what the players already know and knowledge ponce of those world class coaches.

Southgate has to develop himself as much as the team, but I think he's suited to being England manager and will have a few brownie points in the bank post this world cup, so hopefully will continue with giving the youth a chance as there are some bloody good players there.

(fwiw I don't think he'd make a good premier league manager)
 
It was an even bigger achievement than Poch winning back Spurs fans again after 23 years of crap and extreme disconnect under Timmeh
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Although he took us to a semi (great for any England manager) we have to acknowledge Southgate s inexperience.
He formulated a plan, just one plan, and then stuck rigidly to the same 11 to deliver it. Now in the circumstances this may well have been the best approach but it's probably not gonna win you the thing and the opening up of the draw probably helped as much to get us where we did as anything Southgate did.

He's likeable and appears decent to the players and in front of the press, but he is inexperienced, and if you compare the speed of the learning curve to someone like Poch who has his team and players around him 24/7, it's hard to develop ideas and philosophies.

People talk about the system of 3 at the back and being wedded to it, what we need is full flexibility, like Poch developed with us, change to a four at the flick of a switch. And that's where Southgate can get a head start, by harnessing what the players already know from Poch Pep Klopp and run with it, he has so little time with the group there is no point trying to re-invent the wheel, go with what the players already know and knowledge ponce of those world class coaches.

Southgate has to develop himself as much as the team, but I think he's suited to being England manager and will have a few brownie points in the bank post this world cup, so hopefully will continue with giving the youth a chance as there are some bloody good players there.

(fwiw I don't think he'd make a good premier league manager)
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I don't think you can have much flexibility when you've literally only got 14 or 15 competent players.

If Winks, Gomes and Lallana had been fit, we would have had more options
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Although he took us to a semi (great for any England manager) we have to acknowledge Southgate s inexperience.
He formulated a plan, just one plan, and then stuck rigidly to the same 11 to deliver it. Now in the circumstances this may well have been the best approach but it's probably not gonna win you the thing and the opening up of the draw probably helped as much to get us where we did as anything Southgate did.

He's likeable and appears decent to the players and in front of the press, but he is inexperienced, and if you compare the speed of the learning curve to someone like Poch who has his team and players around him 24/7, it's hard to develop ideas and philosophies.

People talk about the system of 3 at the back and being wedded to it, what we need is full flexibility, like Poch developed with us, change to a four at the flick of a switch. And that's where Southgate can get a head start, by harnessing what the players already know from Poch Pep Klopp and run with it, he has so little time with the group there is no point trying to re-invent the wheel, go with what the players already know and knowledge ponce of those world class coaches.

Southgate has to develop himself as much as the team, but I think he's suited to being England manager and will have a few brownie points in the bank post this world cup, so hopefully will continue with giving the youth a chance as there are some bloody good players there.

(fwiw I don't think he'd make a good premier league manager)
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Except - he isnt inexperienced.

He spent 3 years managing Middlesboro in the premier league, to mixed results - but the point is that is all the day to day stuff as well as a good number of games.

He spent 3 years managing the U21s, so is used to the intricacies of International football as well.

Its not like he just rolled out of coaching school into the job.

I think the system he chose was the right one for the players available, it got the best out of (most of) them and covered their weaknesses. A very smart move.

If I had an issue it was that he was wedded to the players, not the system.

That said, I do agree, we need to see him develop from here. If he can become a little more proactive, more ruthless with changes, I think he could be a great England manager.
 
Having watched it back I’m amazed at how we faded and didn’t react

I’m also amazed at how they had so few yellow cards, not that it would have made a difference

Kane’s shot on the post that was flagged offside showed that VAR wasn’t being used as he was clearly on... but strangely their was VAR for some tumbles in the areas

Trippier was immense again and Young showed why I’ve been saying he shouldn’t be in the team

Game changed when sterling went off too

Llalana would have been a great option to have on the bench surely

Winks will take over centre midfield I believe and Alli should play behind Kane not sterling
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Except - he isnt inexperienced.

He spent 3 years managing Middlesboro in the premier league, to mixed results - but the point is that is all the day to day stuff as well as a good number of games.

He spent 3 years managing the U21s, so is used to the intricacies of International football as well.

Its not like he just rolled out of coaching school into the job.

I think the system he chose was the right one for the players available, it got the best out of (most of) them and covered their weaknesses. A very smart move.

If I had an issue it was that he was wedded to the players, not the system.

That said, I do agree, we need to see him develop from here. If he can become a little more proactive, more ruthless with changes, I think he could be a great England manager.
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Will agree to disagree on the experience thing.

He had 3 years at Boro over 10 years ago. Looks like coaching may have moved on since then.

Then he was in charge of the 21's that has given him knowledge of some of the players he's dealing with but barely a learning curve on tactics and systems.

Hardly the CV of Cappello, Roy, Sven. (Although they were basically brick...so what does it matter;))

The rest we basically agree on.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Will agree to disagree on the experience thing.

He had 3 years at Boro over 10 years ago. Looks like coaching may have moved on since then.

Then he was in charge of the 21's that has given him knowledge of some of the players he's dealing with but barely a learning curve on tactics and systems.

Hardly the CV of Cappello, Roy, Sven. (Although they were basically brick...so what does it matter;))

The rest we basically agree on.
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Well of course, Cappello and co have far greater experience.

But I dont think its fair to level him as inexperienced, having managed at club and international level.

He has built a team, just as he has taken a squad to an intl tournament - which of course will have been all about tactics and strategy.

Cant argue really though, what does it matter? He has done a good job so far and we both hope he improves from here.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I think the biggest achievement of this team is not the Semi final, its winning back the interest of people like me.

For 20 years Ive not given a fudge about the England team. Not because Im a misery, or because I didnt want to, but because thats what they deserved. Football was always secondary to hype, ego, big names, money... it was never a "team".

This England side? Genuine, humble, an actual properly put together squad. The Everton goalkeeper, Leicester defender - because they were the best options - rather than Utd/Arsenal/Chelsea cast offs because they are big club. An identity, a style of play, unity between the players and them with the manager.

This squad was not perfect, and I actually think things could have been done better (they always can) but they have been the first "proper" England set up I can remember since 96 (maybe 2000).

And for that I am grateful, I actually have an interest in the international games again.
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Great post. Agree with every word.

Previous England teams have been filled with inflated egos like Terry, Rooney etc, really unlikable, despicable people. This England team and manager all seem like genuine honest pros and seem to enjoy playing alongside each other.
 
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On reflection, getting to a semi final with Stones and Walker at CB is one hell of an achievement.

Trippier for me was our best player in the tournament. I wasn't a big fan of his before the tournament and I still think he struggles defensively against anyone even remotely half decent but he's won me over big time and he should absolutely be the first choice right back for Spurs ahead of Aurier.

We also did remarkably well to get to the semi final without a single creative midfielder in the squad. Henderson keeps things neat and tidy but can't unlock defences. Ditto for Dier.

Sterling..... Was I watching different games to everyone else? Every pundit to a man was sticking up for him no matter how many chances he missed. Almost like they sent out a memo to BBC, ITV and Sky to say we must not be critical of him. As others have said, what is the point of "stretching defences" if you can't pass or shoot? He really is a terrible finisher! Any time he scores it's a scuff, mibrick or a tap in.

Kane didn't look himself in the last two games. As Gary Neville said, It will probably come out that he's been carrying a knock. He wasn't attacking the 6 yard box in the second half of the Colombia game or last night.

England and Spurs to me are eerily similar in some ways. We both snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. We both have young, relatively inexperienced sides who don't have a lot of trophies in their locker. One of the key factors to me as to why Spurs fall short at the second to last hurdle so frequently is our lack of experience and lack of winners. It's the same for England.
 
I thought, in the main, Stones was very good. He has gone up in my estimation.

Sterlings pace kept Croatia at bay, I think him going off changed the game - and Rashford was worse when he came on. That said, as much as I admire Sterlings effort, he really didnt produce enough end product at all.

And, I think, Sterling was half the reason Kane wasnt attacking the box. Seemed to be deliberately sitting deeper to accomodate him. Though if it comes out he isnt 100% fit it will be no surprise.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I thought, in the main, Stones was very good. He has gone up in my estimation.

Sterlings pace kept Croatia at bay, I think him going off changed the game - and Rashford was worse when he came on. That said, as much as I admire Sterlings effort, he really didnt produce enough end product at all.

And, I think, Sterling was half the reason Kane wasnt attacking the box. Seemed to be deliberately sitting deeper to accomodate him. Though if it comes out he isnt 400% fit it will be no surprise.
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Stones was good for the most part and excels when he's on the ball but I still don't rate him as a defender which is his main job.

I read somewhere that Sterling has 2 goals in 41 caps. That's a ratio of 1 in 20. Pretty terrible considering the advanced role he has. I appreciate he puts a shift in and doesn't hide when he misses chances and keeps putting himself in goalscoring positions but his end product is just not acceptable.
 
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