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Daniel Levy - Chairman

Bishop said:
If the balance for you between his negatives and positives is fine and you only see the sun shining from his bottom then fair enough.

There are those of us who think the positives that levy provides in terms of infrastructure are undone by his actions with regards the football side. So without being repetitive that is my stance and has been my stance since the days of Redknapp.

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I do not see the sunshine from his bottom as good enough, Its easy for fans sat on their sofas/in the stands to say " one more buy" one more buy" that's all we need, then a couple of games later they are asking for " just one more buy". What fans do not seem to accept is that we have never been finaically doped ( like City, Chelski and even Utd with their income) and if we had dived into the market as many times as some fans demand and when it does not happen their toys go flying ( jus to be clear i am not saying you are one of those fans) we would not have the structure we have now ( fantastic new stadium etc) and then those same fans will bitch about something else.

We have the best chairman in the game ( and the vast majority of fans i meet at games feel that way), however there are a small minority who because he is not spending money like some of the doped clubs bitch and moan about him. ( that photo of those two idiots i posted above is proof, i was at that game and saw them out side the ground and 99% of fans who passed them gave them stick). I understand that Stop! Hammer time but it beggers belief that fans can not see that the way the club has been run by Levy has made us one of the big boys ( again).

Do not get me wrong i have disagreed with some of his decisions, i did not like the way he got rid of Jol, i is ahated the fact that he gave " rent a quote" a job here and i would have liked to see Poch given to the end of the season. However that is mall fry compered to what/where he has taken us.
 
parklane1 said:
I do not see the sunshine from his bottom as good enough, Its easy for fans sat on their sofas/in the stands to say " one more buy" one more buy" that's all we need, then a couple of games later they are asking for " just one more buy". What fans do not seem to accept is that we have never been finaically doped ( like City, Chelski and even Utd with their income) and if we had dived into the market as many times as some fans demand and when it does not happen their toys go flying ( jus to be clear i am not saying you are one of those fans) we would not have the structure we have now ( fantastic new stadium etc) and then those same fans will bitch about something else.

We have the best chairman in the game ( and the vast majority of fans i meet at games feel that way), however there are a small minority who because he is not spending money like some of the doped clubs bitch and moan about him. ( that photo of those two idiots i posted above is proof, i was at that game and saw them out side the ground and 99% of fans who passed them gave them stick). I understand that Stop! Hammer time but it beggers belief that fans can not see that the way the club has been run by Levy has made us one of the big boys ( again).

Do not get me wrong i have disagreed with some of his decisions, i did not like the way he got rid of Jol, i is ahated the fact that he gave " rent a quote" a job here and i would have liked to see Poch given to the end of the season. However that is mall fry compered to what/where he has taken us.
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My bigger problem with fans in general is the inability to make connections, specifically

- buy, buy, buy, just pay x player whatever salary we want, just refresh entire squad, give away the players who don't want to be here

and at exactly the same time

- the tickets are too expensive, why would I buy a kit at that price? the modern game is locking the "true fan" out, fudge the prawn sandwich folks
 
Raziel said:
Mate, this is why this conversation doesn't go anywhere

- 22 shots from QF or better and you give the manager the excuse, a worse than 5% conversation rate but it's the squad?

Funny how the most pragmatic manager (Ramos) managed to buck that trend.
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So we win the CC, but then we sold his 2 starting strikers and replaced them with Pav (on the last day of the window of course [emoji58]) and then there is surprise that Ramos then goes on to struggle that following season and gets the sack. That's the root of my complaint.

I think he has done a wonderful job on the infrastructure side, I grew up in Tottenham, my school was next door to the ground. So I know what the club has achieved and that is directly Levy's legacy.

So I accept we wouldn't be where we are now without him, I just see a reoccurring pattern. Where his actions lead directly to the problems the football side suffer. Things like haggling to the very last day of the window does not help us. He needs a DoF that he trusts and leaves alone to do the job, give them a budget and trust them to do the job.

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Bishop said:
So we win the CC, but then we sold his 2 starting strikers and replaced them with Pav (on the last day of the window of course [emoji58]) and then there is surprise that Ramos then goes on to struggle that following season and gets the sack. That's the root of my complaint.

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ok mate, I'm going to give this one more try, I give, you give?

- At a specific point in time Spurs were a selling club, Jurgen, Carrick, Modric, Berbatov, Keane, Bale, our attraction in the market for upcoming players was that we were a stepping stone/proving ground to the truly big clubs
- Those days have changed, since Bale (6 years ago), we have sold one player we would probably have wanted to keep (Walker), doesn't mean we won't in the future but it's more on par with players leaving a top side vs. a feeder club

To your point

- Yes, we can all point to periods where BMJ, Ramos, AVB, Harry, Poch didn't get "the player" or right level of player to push on
- That said, that almost always has occurred towards the end of their timeline (where the "do we trust this manager anymore with our finds" comes into play)
- The obvious exception is the "no transfer" summer with Poch, however, several people including Hoddle have insisted Poch was offered certain players and did not take them

But for sake of conversation, lets agree Levy could have done better at 50% of those decisions, perhaps backed Harry & Poch better

From you

- Can you admit if you get to a QF or SF of a cup 22 fudging times, maybe just maybe the fudging managers should have been able to convert 10-15% of those chances?
- I could go dig up some of those QF, SF losses to teams we would be expected to beat, is it still all on Levy?

No matter your circumstances in life, if you manage to drag yourself into a position to get a shot at success, you have to make it happen (especially if you get multiple opportunities), you don't get to just fudging say "hey, I did a great job just getting here"

And I will drive people crazy here, but that is where Harry & Poch failed, they were close enough (despite all the disadvantages), they needed to convert one of those chances, one of those moments (be a Leicester, Portsmouth, insert whatever brick club that has won something in last decade), on any given day, any side can win, yet when it really mattered, they didn't get the job done, that isn't on Levy.
 
Bishop said:
If the balance for you between his negatives and positives is fine and you only see the sun shining from his bottom then fair enough.

There are those of us who think the positives that levy provides in terms of infrastructure are undone by his actions with regards the football side. So without being repetitive that is my stance and has been my stance since the days of Redknapp.

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Click to expand...

If that were anywhere close to the truth, the football side would have barely progressed since he took the reins.
 
Raziel said:
ok mate, I'm going to give this one more try, I give, you give?

- At a specific point in time Spurs were a selling club, Jurgen, Carrick, Modric, Berbatov, Keane, Bale, our attraction in the market for upcoming players was that we were a stepping stone/proving ground to the truly big clubs
- Those days have changed, since Bale (6 years ago), we have sold one player we would probably have wanted to keep (Walker), doesn't mean we won't in the future but it's more on par with players leaving a top side vs. a feeder club

To your point

- Yes, we can all point to periods where BMJ, Ramos, AVB, Harry, Poch didn't get "the player" or right level of player to push on
- That said, that almost always has occurred towards the end of their timeline (where the "do we trust this manager anymore with our finds" comes into play)
- The obvious exception is the "no transfer" summer with Poch, however, several people including Hoddle have insisted Poch was offered certain players and did not take them

But for sake of conversation, lets agree Levy could have done better at 50% of those decisions, perhaps backed Harry & Poch better

From you

- Can you admit if you get to a QF or SF of a cup 22 fudging times, maybe just maybe the fudging managers should have been able to convert 10-15% of those chances?
- I could go dig up some of those QF, SF losses to teams we would be expected to beat, is it still all on Levy?

No matter your circumstances in life, if you manage to drag yourself into a position to get a shot at success, you have to make it happen (especially if you get multiple opportunities), you don't get to just fudging say "hey, I did a great job just getting here"

And I will drive people crazy here, but that is where Harry & Poch failed, they were close enough (despite all the disadvantages), they needed to convert one of those chances, one of those moments (be a Leicester, Portsmouth, insert whatever brick club that has won something in last decade), on any given day, any side can win, yet when it really mattered, they didn't get the job done, that isn't on Levy.
Click to expand...

Raziel said:
ok mate, I'm going to give this one more try, I give, you give?

- At a specific point in time Spurs were a selling club, Jurgen, Carrick, Modric, Berbatov, Keane, Bale, our attraction in the market for upcoming players was that we were a stepping stone/proving ground to the truly big clubs
- Those days have changed, since Bale (6 years ago), we have sold one player we would probably have wanted to keep (Walker), doesn't mean we won't in the future but it's more on par with players leaving a top side vs. a feeder club

To your point

- Yes, we can all point to periods where BMJ, Ramos, AVB, Harry, Poch didn't get "the player" or right level of player to push on
- That said, that almost always has occurred towards the end of their timeline (where the "do we trust this manager anymore with our finds" comes into play)
- The obvious exception is the "no transfer" summer with Poch, however, several people including Hoddle have insisted Poch was offered certain players and did not take them

But for sake of conversation, lets agree Levy could have done better at 50% of those decisions, perhaps backed Harry & Poch better

From you

- Can you admit if you get to a SF of a cup 22 fudging times, maybe just maybe the fudging managers should have been able to convert 10-15% of those chances?
- I could go dig up some of those QF, SF losses to teams we would be expected to beat, is it still all on Levy?

No matter your circumstances in life, if you manage to drag yourself into a position to get a shot at success, you have to make it happen (especially if you get multiple opportunities), you don't get to just fudging say "hey, I did a great job just getting here"

And I will drive people crazy here, but that is where Harry & Poch failed, they were close enough (despite all the disadvantages), they needed to convert one of those chances, one of those moments (be a Leicester, Portsmouth, insert whatever brick club that has won something in last decade), on any given day, any side can win, yet when it really mattered, they didn't get the job done, that isn't on Levy.
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I loved your post we really aren't far from each other on this point. It's not on Levy per se. That's fair to say, ultimately we have lay that at the feet of the manager. I accept that, I'm giving, I'm giving. [emoji38]

We should have won some of those QFs and SFs I accept that. Maybe a real winner manager (that we've never been able to attract before) would have converted. Levy just sometimes contains that manager ability to win or convert.

Jose Mourinho is a totally different prospect so maybe there will be a change in action, earlier completions in the window please. [emoji38]

.

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Bishop said:
I loved your post we really aren't far from each other on this point. It's not on Levy per se. That's fair to say, ultimately we have lay that at the feet of the manager. I accept that, I'm giving, I'm giving. [emoji38]

We should have won some of those QFs and SFs I accept that. Maybe a real winner manager (that we've never been able to attract before) would have converted. Levy just sometimes contains that manager ability to win or convert.

Jose Mourinho is a totally different prospect so maybe there will be a change in action, earlier completions in the window please. [emoji38]
.

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Agreed :)

To be clear, to me there is no point in bringing in Jose if we don't plan to back him in someway (and that would be on Levy), if you aren't willing to risk money on him, you never will.

That's why the conversation about bringing in a DoF Jose already has a relationship with and who he wants to works with (guy from Lille) as early as this in his tenure is very promising. Leave Levy to work the commercials and investments, have the manager and DoF (within a certain budget) work on the right targets.
 
I’m not Levy’s biggest fan but he was right to remove Mopo, we all know a new manager is a gamble, however the potential failure of a new manager doesn’t change the previous manager needing to go.

Jose is a winner and will throw anyone under the bus that stops him, so I Hope Levy is fully aware of this, if he is it’s a new dawn at the club and the purse strings would seemingly have been opened more.

If not, he will be paying of Jose inside 18 months.
 
Raziel said:
ok mate, I'm going to give this one more try, I give, you give?

- At a specific point in time Spurs were a selling club, Jurgen, Carrick, Modric, Berbatov, Keane, Bale, our attraction in the market for upcoming players was that we were a stepping stone/proving ground to the truly big clubs
- Those days have changed, since Bale (6 years ago), we have sold one player we would probably have wanted to keep (Walker), doesn't mean we won't in the future but it's more on par with players leaving a top side vs. a feeder club

To your point

- Yes, we can all point to periods where BMJ, Ramos, AVB, Harry, Poch didn't get "the player" or right level of player to push on
- That said, that almost always has occurred towards the end of their timeline (where the "do we trust this manager anymore with our finds" comes into play)
- The obvious exception is the "no transfer" summer with Poch, however, several people including Hoddle have insisted Poch was offered certain players and did not take them

But for sake of conversation, lets agree Levy could have done better at 50% of those decisions, perhaps backed Harry & Poch better

From you

- Can you admit if you get to a QF or SF of a cup 22 fudging times, maybe just maybe the fudging managers should have been able to convert 10-15% of those chances?
- I could go dig up some of those QF, SF losses to teams we would be expected to beat, is it still all on Levy?

No matter your circumstances in life, if you manage to drag yourself into a position to get a shot at success, you have to make it happen (especially if you get multiple opportunities), you don't get to just fudging say "hey, I did a great job just getting here"

And I will drive people crazy here, but that is where Harry & Poch failed, they were close enough (despite all the disadvantages), they needed to convert one of those chances, one of those moments (be a Leicester, Portsmouth, insert whatever brick club that has won something in last decade), on any given day, any side can win, yet when it really mattered, they didn't get the job done, that isn't on Levy.
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A lot good points in there, but purely playing devils advocate, the no signing windows, if poch has refused players Levy has recommended, would Levy be happy poch telling him to pick a different contractor for the safety systems in the new stadium?

Tongue in cheek and all that, but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at.
 
glasgowspur said:
A lot good points in there, but purely playing devils advocate, the no signing windows, if poch has refused players Levy has recommended, would Levy be happy poch telling him to pick a different contractor for the safety systems in the new stadium?

Tongue in cheek and all that, but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at.
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I think the thing is, the stadium is an enormous factor in this.

Pre build - we simply didnt have the finances to spend big. And this could easily explain lack of investment at times.
During build - we simply didnt have the finances to spend big. And this could easily explain lack of investment at times.
Post build - that particular constraint isnt only no longer the case, but the opposite.

We no longer have the lack of finances, or the finances going into infrastructure, but actually turning a profit for us and increasing our income.

Im not absolving Levy of errors in the past, he has made some for sure - but I also think for the most part they are understandable.

I also think the point seems to be overlooked - having achieved his magic money tree - why do people seem to expect Levy to continue being as risk averse/tight on the purse strings as he has been in the past?
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I think the thing is, the stadium is an enormous factor in this.

Pre build - we simply didnt have the finances to spend big. And this could easily explain lack of investment at times.
During build - we simply didnt have the finances to spend big. And this could easily explain lack of investment at times.
Post build - that particular constraint isnt only no longer the case, but the opposite.

We no longer have the lack of finances, or the finances going into infrastructure, but actually turning a profit for us and increasing our income.

Im not absolving Levy of errors in the past, he has made some for sure - but I also think for the most part they are understandable.

I also think the point seems to be overlooked - having achieved his magic money tree - why do people seem to expect Levy to continue being as risk averse/tight on the purse strings as he has been in the past?
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I think the stadium is part of it, not all of it.
Levy wants to be sure of someone before he backs them. He will back them to what he thinks they will achieve, he won't go past that.
Harry is the perfect example, that season when we up there at Christmas, did anyone really think we would win the league with another striker?
I didn't, and I don't think Levy did either, so he bought at a level he thought Harry deserved/could handle.
Similar with avb, he got the job on a plan then turned out that wasn't his plan at. Levy backed him to the agreed level, no higher.
 
glasgowspur said:
A lot good points in there, but purely playing devils advocate, the no signing windows, if poch has refused players Levy has recommended, would Levy be happy poch telling him to pick a different contractor for the safety systems in the new stadium?

Tongue in cheek and all that, but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at.
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Surely the equivalent, is Levy not fancying the contractor, and not putting in any safety systems at all.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Surely the equivalent, is Levy not fancying the contractor, and not putting in any safety systems at all.
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What I'm trying to say is would Levy be happy with the manager dabbling in his areas, or telling him not to use a state of the art widget in the stadium, use this cheaper one I've found.

Most accounts say Sissoko was a Levy buy, not really a recommendation for his scouting ability.
 
glasgowspur said:
I think the stadium is part of it, not all of it.
Levy wants to be sure of someone before he backs them. He will back them to what he thinks they will achieve, he won't go past that.
Harry is the perfect example, that season when we up there at Christmas, did anyone really think we would win the league with another striker?
I didn't, and I don't think Levy did either, so he bought at a level he thought Harry deserved/could handle.
Similar with avb, he got the job on a plan then turned out that wasn't his plan at. Levy backed him to the agreed level, no higher.
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IMO the only time I have ever thought we could win the league was 87 and the Leicester year
 
Bishop said:
I loved your post we really aren't far from each other on this point. It's not on Levy per se. That's fair to say, ultimately we have lay that at the feet of the manager. I accept that, I'm giving, I'm giving. [emoji38]

We should have won some of those QFs and SFs I accept that. Maybe a real winner manager (that we've never been able to attract before) would have converted. Levy just sometimes contains that manager ability to win or convert.

Jose Mourinho is a totally different prospect so maybe there will be a change in action, earlier completions in the window please. [emoji38]
.

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Click to expand...

The bolded bit has always been a concern for me, i probably will get stick from some ( again) but i have said for a few seasons that as a team ( and i do include the manager in that) we lack a winners mentality through the group. Every time i mentioned that i was shot down by some fans who said it was not true, well all those S/F we have lost have shown we had/have that problem.

That is the main reason i am happy with the appointment of Jose ( even though i would have liked Poch to have been given to the end of the season), he is a winner and i have said on here before that if there was one manager i would bet on to win the REALLY crunch games it would be him.​
 
glasgowspur said:
What I'm trying to say is would Levy be happy with the manager dabbling in his areas, or telling him not to use a state of the art widget in the stadium, use this cheaper one I've found.

Most accounts say Sissoko was a Levy buy, not really a recommendation for his scouting ability.
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Levy doesn't scout players. He has scouts and other advisors for that. I think he has been around long enough to know a good player/deal when he sees one.
 
When you consider prior to Poch's arrival we succeeded in making the Champions League just once, while we have qualified for the competition over each of the last four seasons culminating with an appearance in the final, I think Levy has displayed a lack of class by not allowing Poch to say farewell to the players in person. Would one final visit to the training ground really have caused that many problems for the club?
 
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