The Gods Smiled: How Close We Were, and How Much 'They' Cared.

[Sheffield Spur]

Whilst we have a Liverpool thread, it has taken a different path, and I feel this merits a thread for analysis and discussion in its own right, because its a very specific issue, and especially as Spurs were at the start of a process which should have had a different outcome.... I don't think its been put on here yet, in detail.

I have long wondered, in the grander scheme of things, why SWFC, Sheffield City Council and the FA have been largely 'out of the picture' with the Hillsborough disaster over the last 23 years? Why had they not been implicated more heavily? After all, the fateful match in 1989 (as well as that in 1981) had been at SWFC's ground (and therefore had a duty of care to the customers), Sheffield City Council, who issued a safety certificate to the ground (or hadn't issued one, in this case), and the FA, who selected the ground and surely should perform due diligence (i.e. check key issues) beforehand. They obviously hadn't. There was no safety certificate.

In other words, cause and effect. The actions of the police can be attributed to both. The actions of SWFC, Sheffield City Council and the FA can be attributed to cause, surely?

Back in 1981, I went to the Spurs v. Wolves semi final at Hillsborough. I stood on the kop with the Wolves fans because thats where a mate got me a ticket. It gave me a grandstand view of the proceedings at the Leppings Lane end. I have freeze frames in my mind of those sat all the way along the edge of the pitch, by the end of the game. We were very, very lucky.

I read the following article with interest, and then one paragraph hit me between the eyes!

The Mail on Sunday. Sunday 23rd September 2012.

The club’s role in the disaster has come under renewed scrutiny. Charles Falconer, the barrister who represents the Hillsborough Family Support Group, has asked the Director of Public Prosecutions to investigate whether the club (whose current owners took over in November 2010), South Yorkshire Police, the local council and the FA should be charged with corporate manslaughter.

There had been dangerous crushes at the Leppings Lane end before 1989 and the flaws at the stadium were well known. Yet when police told McGee after an incident in 1981 that fans had been moved to avoid ‘a real chance of fatalities’, another document disclosed by the Independent Panel reveals that he had responded: ‘B******s — no one would have been killed.’


Full article URL below

Bert McGhee was SWFC Chairman at the time of the disaster. Clearly customer care was not high on his agenda. Money was. No surprises there. Bert McGhee stepped down as SWFC Chairman the following year and Sir Dave Richards took over.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...nsation-lost-ticket-revenue-Hillsborough.html


This followed on from the excellent Channel 5 programme last week.

The Truth About Hillsborough.

http://www.channel5.com/shows/the-truth-about-hillsborough/episodes/the-truth-about-hillsborough


Click to watch on Channel 5 iplayer.

The area of the programme that dovetails with the above is about two thirds of the way through. It deals with this subject matter, and is the first that I have personally seen which grasps this. We are mentioned in 'the 1981 game' reference. It graphically illustrates the 'safety improvements'(???) carried out before 1989. The 3 side barriers put in just penned in fans with nowhere to run, especially to the side, with more pouring in behind. I think it was the lack of these side pens in 1981 that saved many Spurs fans from a similar fate. A death trap had been created, with those largely getting in, in good order, and nearer to the front, paying the price.

Further safety improvement proposals (again these are shown in the programme) before 1989 were turned down by SWFC as "too expensive". The man responsible for SWFC? The Chairman. Bert McGhee, throughout this.

Bert McGhee died in 1995.

The senior police at the time may have - rightly - copped (!) for the blame, but I don't believe they are 100% to blame. Lead yourself to your own conclusion. IMHO its the tip of the iceberg.

 

[jts1882]

Good post. Similar thoughts struck me reading part of the new Hillsborough report a couple of weeks ago. I knew about the Spurs incident but not the details. The first chapter of the report goes through the Spurs incident in detail and the similarities with the events in 1989 (second chapter) are staggering: crush outside, opening of exit gate to relieve pressure, fans being naturally funnelled through the tunnel into the centre of the terrace. Its the exact same sequence of events.

Luckily things were slightly different then. There were police/stewards directing fans to the side of the pens, the central pens weren't totally fenced off so fans could move sideways, and the police opened the gates onto the pitch-side when they saw the problem. By 1989 things were worse: the central pens were totally fenced off, the relationship between fans and police was worse. So why would the game be held there?

Its worse because following the Spurs incident, Hillsborough was removed from the FA Cup semi-final list for six years. It was removed because it was dangerous and some people made the decision to add it back to the list without safety improvements. Think about it. They removed the stadium from the list because it was known to be dangerous, they make it more dangerous with extra fencing, and they add it back to the list when there is no safety certificate. They had problems in 1987, yet came back in 1988, they had problems in 1988, yet came back in 1989. They kept coming back until people died. The people who made these decision to play the FA Cup semifinal at Hillsborough are responsible for the deaths.

The focus has been wrong. People made mistakes on the day. Duckenfield ordered the exit gate opened because his officer asked for it to relieve a dangerous situation outside. It was a fatal mistake but the intent was good. The police refused to let fans out at the front, but given the history of hooliganism and antagonistic relationship it was an understandable decision, albeit a very bad one. The delays with the emergence services had similar underlying reasons. The cover-up was criminal, as were the false press briefings, and prosecutions should be pursued, but not at the expense of looking at who made the decisions that led to the game being played there.

The report goes into detail on the bad relationship between Sheffield Wednesday and South Yorkshire police, the police wanting the club to do things and the club not wanting to spend money. There are many reasons why Hillsbrough was an avoidable tragedy.


Here is the report: http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/hc1213/hc05/0581/0581.pdf

The executive summary of the first three chapters gives a vivid picture. The first chapter gives a lot of details: Chapter 1. 1981–1989: unheeded warnings, the seeds of disaster.

 

[southstand1882]

Hmmm

 

[Sheffield Spur]

In the Mail, since the report outcome, it was stated, IIRC, that Hillsborough had not had a valid safety certificate for 10 years! If this is true, it would mean that there was not one for the 1981 semi final either.

Why did Sheffield City Council not pursue SWFC to be eligible for a safety licence?

Indeed, how was ANY match played there without a valid certificate.

How the hell did the FA award the 1989 game without adequate checks?

The 'establishment' in this country is rotten. Anything goes!

The MP's expenses scandal.
Emma Harrison and A4e. "I just think I'll take another £8m bonus this year."
Phone tapping.

It goes on.

But now, this......

I wonder how many senior police officers, town councillors, SWFC officials, local politicians and suchlike are members of Dore Golf Club? I think you get the drift. My oh my, thats a funny handshake......

 

[Sheffield Spur]

Good post. Similar thoughts struck me reading part of the new Hillsborough report a couple of weeks ago. I knew about the Spurs incident but not the details. The first chapter of the report goes through the Spurs incident in detail and the similarities with the events in 1989 (second chapter) are staggering: crush outside, opening of exit gate to relieve pressure, fans being naturally funnelled through the tunnel into the centre of the terrace. Its the exact same sequence of events.

Luckily things were slightly different then. There were police/stewards directing fans to the side of the pens, the central pens weren't totally fenced off so fans could move sideways, and the police opened the gates onto the pitch-side when they saw the problem. By 1989 things were worse: the central pens were totally fenced off, the relationship between fans and police was worse. So why would the game be held there?

Its worse because following the Spurs incident, Hillsborough was removed from the FA Cup semi-final list for six years. It was removed because it was dangerous and some people made the decision to add it back to the list without safety improvements. Think about it. They removed the stadium from the list because it was known to be dangerous, they make it more dangerous with extra fencing, and they add it back to the list when there is no safety certificate. They had problems in 1987, yet came back in 1988, they had problems in 1988, yet came back in 1989. They kept coming back until people died. The people who made these decision to play the FA Cup semifinal at Hillsborough are responsible for the deaths.

The focus has been wrong. People made mistakes on the day. Duckenfield ordered the exit gate opened because his officer asked for it to relieve a dangerous situation outside. It was a fatal mistake but the intent was good. The police refused to let fans out at the front, but given the history of hooliganism and antagonistic relationship it was an understandable decision, albeit a very bad one. The delays with the emergence services had similar underlying reasons. The cover-up was criminal, as were the false press briefings, and prosecutions should be pursued, but not at the expense of looking at who made the decisions that led to the game being played there.

The report goes into detail on the bad relationship between Sheffield Wednesday and South Yorkshire police, the police wanting the club to do things and the club not wanting to spend money. There are many reasons why Hillsbrough was an avoidable tragedy.


Here is the report: http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/hc1213/hc05/0581/0581.pdf

The executive summary of the first three chapters gives a vivid picture. The first chapter gives a lot of details: Chapter 1. 1981–1989: unheeded warnings, the seeds of disaster.

Bang on. Food for thought.

I'll read the report in detail, later.

The whole thing stinks.

 

[Southcote Spur]

All of the recent press on this subject has brought my memory of our '81 semi-final sharply back into focus.

I had managed to see all but one of our home league fixtures that season, plus all of the previous cup rounds and I was over the moon when I got a ticket for this game. On the day, my Mum & Dad dropped me off at St Pancras station to get a special train up to Sheffield. A fleet of buses then conveyed us to the ground.

I seem to recall getting into the ground about 45 minutes before kick off and as I stood in the Leppings Lane end, I looked out at the 'Kop end at thought how big it looked and wondered why we had been allocated the smaller end?* If I recall correctly, about 10 to 15 minutes before the kick off, I can remember a real influx of fans, to the point where I was pressed against one of the crash barriers. As a stocky 17 year old it took all of my strength to stop the wind being forced out of my lungs, by forcibly leaning back on the person behind me. This pressing and jostling lasted until just after kick off. Once this had settled down, I seemed to recall it being quite cozy!

*If I recall, there were some gaps at the 'Kop end?

Fast forward to 1989 and on hearing that Hillsborough had been chosen for the semi-final, a feeling of dread and unease began to bulid within me. When I subsequently watched those awful scenes unfolding on my TV screen, they were viewed with increasing anger and frustration.

Having read some of the recent press, with added interest, I will never understand why Hillsborough was reinstated as a semi-final venue. The dreadful loss life on the fateful day elavated this decision from the incompetent to the downright negligent. Indeed, I would go so far to suggest that the CPS should consider whether the members of the committee who made this decision, along with the local constabulary should be charged with 96 counts of manslaughter? However, I guess that this will never happen, as the establishment would have by now closed ranks and that proper justice will never truly be served?

Whatever happens now, may the families and friends of the 96 be allowed to rest in peace.

 

[Spur of the moment]

All those allegedly involved in the decision to award SFs to a ground that was without a safety certificate must shoulder a considerable burden of guilt and shame. There can be no excuses.

However I have often wondered about one or two crushes I found myself in back the day. I'm not going to say when or where, but on one occasion in the 80s I was extremely relieved to get out alive and in one piece, the crush was that intense. All I suffered that day was bruised ribs, but I recall shouts and screams from some among the crowd who were getting pretty desperate on behalf of the women and children in their party. People were being passed over heads but as far as I was aware there was nothing significant in the way of casualties.

Thing is crushes were not so uncommon in those days, you kind of accepted it as normal, never really believing such a tragedy could ever happen. It's ironic that though crowds were often much smaller in the 80s than in previous decades, for the big occasions you were more at risk of being in a crush. The big difference being the introduction of pens or paddocks designed to control football "hooligans." Prior to that, when there was a crush, there had usually been ample scope for the crowd to spill into other areas all around the ground, or, if things got really bad, over the barrier and on to the pitch.

Nowadays it would seem utterly absurd to suggest that you could create areas that were fenced-in on all four sides yet not have any rigid control of the numbers that were allowed in, but this is what seemed to happen almost routinely at the time. On the day in question I remember being astonished at how unevenly the crowd was distributed around the ground. Whilst we were fighting for our lives, some sections in other parts of the ground were half empty.

It seems that not even the most fundamental principles of crowd dynamics were understood by the authorities in those days and sadly it took the tragedy of Hillsborough to change all that.

For this reason alone I think we should be grateful for the all-seater.

 

[Sheffield Spur]

It seems to me that SYP senior officers have copped for the lions share of the blame, pretty much. How can the Board at SWFC, the Council dept issuing safety certificates and The FA be blameless though? Their gonad*s should be on the chopping block long before any of the senior police. Their involvement came first.

It seems to me that:

A tight-fisted SWFC chairman wanted to rake in money, but not incur safety costs.
Sheffield Council? I just don't know. Incompetence on a grand scale*. Just what were they doing?
The FA? 1981 was back in the days of Charles Hughes on the board, and turning Clough down for the England managers job. The old school tie ruled.

It is remarkable that on the day the report was released, a couple of weeks ago, SWFC were the first to issue a full apology, and The FA not far behind. I wonder why?

Seems like the chickens are (at last) coming home to roost.

* I remember in c.1976, a job advert in the local press for a job with Sheffield Council. It was Peace Officer. It was also on @£20k pa, in 1976! IIRC! What a load of utter cobblers. At a time when they should have been discharging their responsibilities by helping local people, especially attracting in new business and employment to the area, they were tinkling about spending their time in 'arthouse' trendy leftist issues, playing political games and buggering off abroad on beanos to twinned towns, and suchlike. All on expenses, of course. I couldn't stand Thatcher, but I could almost understand her squaring up to Sheffield City Council and its incompetency with money.

 

[thfcsteff]

Brilliant thread IMHO.
My feelings on this are very strong.
I think Sheffield is on the money, ditto other contributors...