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Reporter Deaths

G

Gifter

William Gallas
When I heard of the sad news of the deaths of reporters in Syria, it immediately drew a memory I had of the reports of deaths of several of the most well thought of reporters in Iraq and that there were suggestions that this was a black ops job, most of these were reporters who were asking more uncomfortable questions and were not happy to just re-report the spoon fed stories from high command of the allied troops, who instead strived for a balance to report what was actually happening.

If this is something that interests, please have a look at this link;
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18543

Various stories;
http://www.brussellstribunal.org/Journalists.htm

World War II 68 Journalists Killed

Iraq to date 228 Journalists Killed

20 of the 30 non-iraqi media workers killed were in the first year.

My thoughts are that it is reasonable to consider these recent deaths may have links to the military-industrial complex of allied countries (or the shadow elite amongst them). A demi-false flag if you will.

Ridicule away...
 
I have absolutely no doubt there is some shocking kernel in your assertion, Gifter.

The majority of the public have no conception how the equations of power play out at the upper echelons, and how they mimic history.. yet all it ever boils down to is a squalid desire for resources, control and thus, power. Roman, Spanish, British and this new wave of imperialism... the only differences are that the methods evolve and become ever more sinister, the propaganda more nuanced.

At least those shadowy instigators of the past had the excuse of belief in some religion for what they perpetrated! Those in Whitehall and the Whitehouse, presently the most scientifically advanced societies in history know full well what they kill and cover up for is for a quick buck and thirst for control in our short existences on Earth which, in my book, is worse than the more primitive, misguided religious motivations of the past. In short, "we now understand that our belief systems are mostly chinese-whispered bunkum but, hey!, there's some money to be made!!" How convenient a mechanism for them to divide and conquer the populace, though!

The Emperors had the Colosseum and the games, nowadays we have Fox News, News International the X Factor and thier military/industrial tie ins. Make no mistake, it has been understood since the earlier Empires how to meld entertainment, propaganda and diversion.

It is sickening... and I'm just as culpable. Stuck in the web too. Typing, as I am, on a forum about humans kicking a ball about (enjoyable as that is!) in the wee hours instead of out trying to open peoples eyes, somehow. If only we could replace junk mail and the Sun on Sunday with something by Noam Chomsky to give us all a chance.

In the end, however, all Empires fade. No matter how much oil, gold, land or slaves they have previously taken, or how successful their propaganda has been. In a good few hundred years Chinese archaeologists will be digging up evidence and studying this pitiful scrabble for oil and control, the lies and horrors that it has wrought, and screening it on some holoprojector just as we watch the Nazis and the Mongols on Discovery channel now.
 
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Gifter said:
Ridicule away...
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Well...

First off, following the second link from the http://www.brussellstribunal.org/Journalists.htm link you posted (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12360.htm) there is some information pointing towards the comparison between WW2 and Iraq isn't trustworthy.

And in World War I (1914-18), in which the military death toll ran to 14 million, only two journalists are listed as being killed.

(...) Iraq is merely reflecting a trend seen in other recent conflicts (...)

Thus journalist casualty figures for conflicts in Argentina (1976-83) were 98; Central America (1979-89) 89; Algeria (1993-96) 58; Colombia (1986-present) 52; Balkans (1991-95) 36; and the Philippines (1983-87) 36.
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So first of all there is a clear trend, making a direct comparison between the war in Iraq and WW2 a bit irrelevant.

Secondly, there are a lot of reasons to believe that the WW2 number was a lot higher. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/reporters-without-borders/news/article.cfm?o_id=381&objectid=10384382 This article states:

The Arlington, Virginia-based Freedom Forum lists 69 journalists known to have been killed during World War 2 although it also notes that number is probably low due to underreporting.
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If out of the 300,000 killed just in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki blasts there weren't more journalists than that it would only go to show how few active journalists there were in the axis countries at the time.

There are also reports that the Iraqi insurgents have been targeting journalists for attacks, not something I think happened during WW2.

Finally, my gripe with your post:

Gifter said:
My thoughts are that it is reasonable to consider these recent deaths may have links to the military-industrial complex of allied countries (or the shadow elite amongst them). A demi-false flag if you will.
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On what basis is it reasonable? This seems to be the standard conspiracy-theory thinking process "here is some anomaly I can't explain, ergo it's rational to think that <insert favourite conspiracy theory here> is causing it." For something to be a reasonable explanation there has to be some kind of evidence supporting it, not just a lack of evidence disproving it. And, like in this case, the actual anomaly frequently does have quite a few explanations that are largely ignored by the conspiracy theorists.
 
Gifter said:
My thoughts are that it is reasonable to considerthese recent deaths may have links to the military-industrial complex of allied countries (or the shadow elite amongst them). A demi-false flag if you will.
Click to expand...

braineclipse said:
Finally, my gripe with your post:



On what basis is it reasonable? This seems to be the standard conspiracy-theory thinking process "here is some anomaly I can't explain, ergo it's rational to think that <insert favourite conspiracy theory here> is causing it." For something to be a reasonable explanation there has to be some kind of evidence supporting it, not just a lack of evidence disproving it. And, like in this case, the actual anomaly frequently does have quite a few explanations that are largely ignored by the conspiracy theorists.
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Scattered with those words in bold, of course it is reasonable (that is 'my mind' it is 'reasonable' to 'consider' there 'may' be forces beyond those overtly perceptible at work, it was not a request to gain acceptance for your own thought processing), you just need to look at the history of Seymour Hirsh, and the resistance he encountered trying to out the story of the MyLai massacre, to know there is strong resistance to reporting which goes against any countries own form of propaganda.

Where previously forces strove to protect journalists, now I believe troops (on both sides) are trained (or goaded) into being so immoral that they are easily persuaded to view journalists as a justifiable enemy.

http://www.nysun.com/national/cnn-executive-says-gis-in-iraq-target-journalists/8866/
Mr. Jordan, speaking in a panel discussion titled "Will Democracy Survive the Media?" said "he knew of about 12 journalists who had not only been killed by American troops, but had been targeted as a matter of policy," said Rep. Barney Frank, a Democrat of Massachusetts who was on the panel with Mr. Jordan.
 
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Gifter said:
Scattered with those words in bold, of course it is reasonable (that is 'my mind' it is 'reasonable' to 'consider' there 'may' be forces beyond those overtly perceptible at work, it was not a request to gain acceptance for your own thought processing), you just need to look at the history of Seymour Hirsh, and the resistance he encountered trying to out the story of the MyLai massacre, to know there is strong resistance to reporting which goes against any countries own form of propaganda.
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I trust evidence. I trust opinions of large groups of experts. Even with qualifiers such as 'consider' and 'may' speculation without evidence is still just idle speculation.

I may have misunderstood what you meant by "military-industrial complex of allied countries", if so I will consider that my comments were a tad harsh ;) But from my understanding of what people talk about when "military-industrial complex" comes up it sounds like grade-a conspiracy theory flimflam to me. If you opinion was more balanced than that and all you were saying is that there are forces working for those that make a lot of money from the US (and international) military budgets that have at times done unethical things to keep their profits going steady then we have no argument and I apologize for my abrupt comment.

Gifter said:
Where previously forces strove to protect journalists, now I believe troops (on both sides) are trained (or goaded) into being so immoral that they are easily persuaded to view journalists as a justifiable enemy.
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I see no real reason to believe that current soldiers are more immoral than soldiers have been in the past. I even think it's moving in the right direction, at least with NATO troops. That's not to say that there aren't exceptions or even percentages of those troops that are immoral, just like with any other large group of people.

Gifter said:
http://www.nysun.com/national/cnn-ex...rnalists/8866/
Mr. Jordan, speaking in a panel discussion titled "Will Democracy Survive the Media?" said "he knew of about 12 journalists who had not only been killed by American troops, but had been targeted as a matter of policy," said Rep. Barney Frank, a Democrat of Massachusetts who was on the panel with Mr. Jordan.
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I don't know enough about the specifics in these cases or the MyLai case you mention to argue about those individual cases.

However, I see no evidence for a grand scale conspiracy theory. Again, if your argument is that there is corruption, abuse of power, inept leaders and cover up operations going on then fair enough.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
but you wouldnt, would you - its a conspiracy! :-k
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Exactly.

By design the grand conspiracy theories are unfalsifiable (any contradicting evidence is part of the conspiracy).

If they are also unproven, like all of them are or they wouldn't be conspiracy theories, the only intellectually honest thing to do is to either believe in all of them or none of them. Believing in all of them is laughable and the only option left is to disbelieve all of them, unless or until some actual evidence is presented.
 
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