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***OMT Tottenham Hotspur Football Club v Nottingham Forest***

Of COURSE we ‘support the players’ I’m not too sure what the sensible option is when one doesn’t have the power to sanction proper wages for the #1 targets? I still think many of these players are far better than we’re seeing, and in a consistent environment they’d be showing it.

I agree, after all its what real supporters are supposed to do.
There is supporting the players and there is sticking your head in the sand and pretending everything is ok and as a fan base we have done a hell of a lot of the latter. It's not ok and it hasn't been ok for years.

It doesn't matter who is criticised or how valid that critique is there is always someone defending them, making excuses for them and explaining how in perfect scenario z all of their failing are actually positives and how we have to get "behind them," as if pure positivity will change the limitations of their abilities.

There is a point at which you actually need to stop pretending all is well because if you never admit you have a problem how can you possibly address it?
 
There is supporting the players and there is sticking your head in the sand and pretending everything is ok and as a fan base we have done a hell of a lot of the latter. It's not ok and it hasn't been ok for years.

It doesn't matter who is criticised or how valid that critique is there is always someone defending them, making excuses for them and explaining how in perfect scenario z all of their failing are actually positives and how we have to get "behind them," as if pure positivity will change the limitations of their abilities.

There is a point at which you actually need to stop pretending all is well because if you never admit you have a problem how can you possibly address it?
No one is sticking their heads in the sand, IF there is its a few and its no worse then those who are always feel they have to slag every player off. Sadly there are always a few.
 
There is supporting the players and there is sticking your head in the sand and pretending everything is ok and as a fan base we have done a hell of a lot of the latter. It's not ok and it hasn't been ok for years.

It doesn't matter who is criticised or how valid that critique is there is always someone defending them, making excuses for them and explaining how in perfect scenario z all of their failing are actually positives and how we have to get "behind them," as if pure positivity will change the limitations of their abilities.

There is a point at which you actually need to stop pretending all is well because if you never admit you have a problem how can you possibly address it?


I agree with all of that.

I was extremely critical of our failure to properly support Pochettino several times during his tenure, and was especially aggravated that so many were prepared to give up on him at the first sign of trouble. To me, THAT was the capital moment of failing to address a major problem at our club, and he also represented the last chance (as I saw it) of somewhat organically-created supremacy. I said it at the time and I'll say it forever; he was grossly under-appreciated.

I think if I'm brutally honest, everything since (for me) has been a case of accepting the situation rather than challenging it...until the whole Ange/Frank debacle. I think you know where I stand on this, but when I saw that Lange was behind stacking the squad with young guns and punts when Ange came in, and that we clearly had no intention of even trying to replace Harry Kane with anyone close, then I started to get tinkled off again.

Hiring a manager in Frank whose first words were then 'we are going to lose football matches' and consistently downplaying us was absolute, total sacrilege, and showed me that he was not the man to change the way we operate on or off the pitch.

As to your last sentence..."
There is a point at which you actually need to stop pretending all is well because if you never admit you have a problem how can you possibly address it?

...I absolutely see what you're saying and wholly acknowledge the merits (and, indeed, necessity of such), however where I have found myself drawing the line in the case of Spurs is that I have no control over it whatsoever, I have repeatedly been let down by a boardroom which has consistently fudged the football side of things, and I therefore choose to simply support what is on the pitch to the very best of my abilities; they are the players who are wearing the shirt. They will have my support. Do I think Solanke is the answer? Not even close, but he's the only answer we've got right now, so I support him. You can apply that to anyone who steps onto the pitch for us. I even try to support man agers without prejudice, however I admit that by late October I was absolutely done with Frank, and had it been me, I'd have 'Santin'd him' pronto.

As ever with you, a good and provocative discussion mate.
 
There is supporting the players and there is sticking your head in the sand and pretending everything is ok and as a fan base we have done a hell of a lot of the latter. It's not ok and it hasn't been ok for years.

It doesn't matter who is criticised or how valid that critique is there is always someone defending them, making excuses for them and explaining how in perfect scenario z all of their failing are actually positives and how we have to get "behind them," as if pure positivity will change the limitations of their abilities.

There is a point at which you actually need to stop pretending all is well because if you never admit you have a problem how can you possibly address it?

To paraphrase today’s Last Word on Spurs:

They can’t cope with criticism; they can’t cope with support; they can’t cope with lack of support; they can’t cope with disappointment; they can’t cope with encouragement; they can’t cope with setbacks; they can’t cope with good fortune. Is there anything they can cope with, other than losing?
 
Couldn’t bring myself to watch the MOTD ‘highlights’ (lowlights) of this until this morning. Even worse than I remembered from in the stadium…the defending for the first goal (four players around Jesus - VDV, Gray, Spence and Richarlison - and not one of them jumps); Romero’s jog back for the second, and Sarr and Tel’s complete lack of awareness of those around them); the constantly misplaced passes; Muani missing a header unmarked from four yards out in the final minute…and is going straight down the tunnel without shaking hands with the opposition coach Tudor’s thing? (I realise there may have been special circumstances on Sunday, but not the first time he’s done it).

We’re f ucked, aren’t we?
 
Couldn’t bring myself to watch the MOTD ‘highlights’ (lowlights) of this until this morning. Even worse than I remembered from in the stadium…the defending for the first goal (four players around Jesus - VDV, Gray, Spence and Richarlison - and not one of them jumps); Romero’s jog back for the second, and Sarr and Tel’s complete lack of awareness of those around them); the constantly misplaced passes; Muani missing a header unmarked from four yards out in the final minute…and is going straight down the tunnel without shaking hands with the opposition coach Tudor’s thing? (I realise there may have been special circumstances on Sunday, but not the first time he’s done it).

We’re f ucked, aren’t we?

Pretty much - the attitude that permeates our squad is diabolical and you aren't fighting your way out of a battle with a bad mentality. These players haven't got an ounce of winning mentality between them are happy to go through the motions while getting out fought & out thought every game they play.
 
Couldn’t bring myself to watch the MOTD ‘highlights’ (lowlights) of this until this morning. Even worse than I remembered from in the stadium…the defending for the first goal (four players around Jesus - VDV, Gray, Spence and Richarlison - and not one of them jumps); Romero’s jog back for the second, and Sarr and Tel’s complete lack of awareness of those around them); the constantly misplaced passes; Muani missing a header unmarked from four yards out in the final minute…and is going straight down the tunnel without shaking hands with the opposition coach Tudor’s thing? (I realise there may have been special circumstances on Sunday, but not the first time he’s done it).

We’re f ucked, aren’t we?

It is hard to feel we aren't, yet I keep on clinging to the fractures. That is to say everything you describe above are breakdown moments. If we pay closer attention to the first, the others don't happen. I cling to the hope someone can flip their brains, I equally find myself preparing for the EFL.
 
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