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The Case for the Attacking play

Legohamster said:
Our forwards are just inconsistent as are our CM

I don't overly rate Sarr, he's Ok in everything he does but he's not going to take us to the next level

Bents is meh as is Bissouma.

We need a new set of forwards and CM

Not much to do.

Frank will give us structure not to lose every week and try and firm up the defence.
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I said previously our CMs were all decent at something but none good all round. But at the same time Frank has had ample opportunity to play Gray who can actually play football yet will always go for the predictable Bent/Palhina combination that is just so lacking in imagination.

But regardless of their overall quality, they are all more than capable of playing the ball forwards but they are being coached to play it sideways and backwards. As for this solid structure argument that keeps getting touted, it's not like defensively we've even looked that great and was it not for Vicario we would be a lot worse off. Our constant negative play is just inviting pressure....
 
harr1984 said:
I said previously our CMs were all decent at something but none good all round. But at the same time Frank has had ample opportunity to play Gray who can actually play football yet will always go for the predictable Bent/Palhina combination that is just so lacking in imagination.

But regardless of their overall quality, they are all more than capable of playing the ball forwards but they are being coached to play it sideways and backwards. As for this solid structure argument that keeps getting touted, it's not like defensively we've even looked that great and was it not for Vicario we would be a lot worse off. Our constant negative play is just inviting pressure....
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How many of the options would move to the same level or higher? I agree on gray btw ( I exclude berg due to age ) but I'm wondering if there is more to it given he started the season.

some games we've looked better , others we haven't - last week I thought we were excellent, same at Leeds the game before - so there have been improvements.

We conceded 60 plus goals the last 3 seasons.
 
Legohamster said:
How many of the options would move to the same level or higher? I agree on gray btw ( I exclude berg due to age ) but I'm wondering if there is more to it given he started the season.

some games we've looked better , others we haven't - last week I thought we were excellent, same at Leeds the game before - so there have been improvements.

We conceded 60 plus goals the last 3 seasons.
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Are you referring to Everton? I didn't see that game but everyone said the football was awful again. As for Leeds their xG was 1.68 ours was 0.53 and they had over ten shots more than us, we didn't deserve to win that but will take it. We have been poor footballing wise most of the season.

Did Gray start the season? That's interesting, as did Sarr and he did well scoring goals and then all of a sudden not included. Whatever it is, I'm supporting Frank to get it right but you can already see a change in tone by many on here and this is a place I would consider more conservative than the fans at the stadium. So I will begin to worry about the atmosphere getting even worse if Frank doesn't change things soon.....
 
harr1984 said:
Yeah we've all said it, it's so obvious our forward need upgrading. But I'll also say this - had you given Ange Kudus,Muani, Xavi and Palhina to hold in the CM plus had our back 5 fit which other than Udogie we have had for the most part ( yes Anges methods partly to blame for that) I would 100 per cent rather watch Anges football than what we have seen this season.

This isn't to open debate on whether Ange should be here instead of Frank, we should all be supporting Frank right now. The point is this group of players could and should be playing better football than it has done. Being less open defensively is not an excuse for the football being served up right now....
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100%
We have added to the squad better players … some genuine first 11 players
Yes we have injuries.. we had them all of last season and the one before and it wasn’t an excuse back then either
But why can’t Frank get a semblance of attacking style from the players he has?
We have lost one player in son and unless his influence was even greater than what was obvious in can only be the changing of the manager and how he is or isn’t managing it
 
Bedfordspurs said:
100%
We have added to the squad better players … some genuine first 11 players
Yes we have injuries.. we had them all of last season and the one before and it wasn’t an excuse back then either
But why can’t Frank get a semblance of attacking style from the players he has?
We have lost one player in son and unless his influence was even greater than what was obvious in can only be the changing of the manager and how he is or isn’t managing it
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Kulusevski and Maddison are yet to make an appearance for us this season so we have lost their services up until now.
 
harr1984 said:
Are you referring to Everton? I didn't see that game but everyone said the football was awful again. As for Leeds their xG was 1.68 ours was 0.53 and they had over ten shots more than us, we didn't deserve to win that but will take it. We have been poor footballing wise most of the season.

Did Gray start the season? That's interesting, as did Sarr and he did well scoring goals and then all of a sudden not included. Whatever it is, I'm supporting Frank to get it right but you can already see a change in tone by many on here and this is a place I would consider more conservative than the fans at the stadium. So I will begin to worry about the atmosphere getting even worse if Frank doesn't change things soon.....
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I’m not saying this because I think he should be under pressure, I believe he should get this season at an absolute minimum, but if United is as poor as yesterday, he’s in big big trouble.

The crowd will turn. I didn’t boo yesterday, I never have, but I was tempted. I was furious coming out of that ground, more so than any other game I’ve been to in recent years. The crowd will go nuts if we produce that brick again next week.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I’m not saying this because I think he should be under pressure, I believe he should get this season at an absolute minimum, but if United is as poor as yesterday, he’s in big big trouble.

The crowd will turn. I didn’t boo yesterday, I never have, but I was tempted. I was furious coming out of that ground, more so than any other game I’ve been to in recent years. The crowd will go nuts if we produce that brick again next week.
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I will never ever boo any player or the manager. But totally understand those who did, I can't believe we played that poorly. I said when he was appointed I was worried he would get eaten alive at Spurs, I don't want to see it happen but if he didn't know before he better realise now what a different ball game managing Spurs is to Brentford.

My hope is that he will be more attacking at home to Copenhagen as we should be, try a slightly more attacking system with more forward thinking players and ensure they look forward with the ball. Then we can use what hopefully is a better performance to build on against Man U. If that doesn't happen and it's more of the same, I really will worry for him....
 
DeanoAustin said:
I’m not saying this because I think he should be under pressure, I believe he should get this season at an absolute minimum, but if United is as poor as yesterday, he’s in big big trouble.

The crowd will turn. I didn’t boo yesterday, I never have, but I was tempted. I was furious coming out of that ground, more so than any other game I’ve been to in recent years. The crowd will go nuts if we produce that brick again next week.
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Agree
He should 100% get a season, minimum
But it won’t change my view on the football unless the football changes and I’ll have that view and politely share it
I’ve heard a lot of excuses already from mates as to why… injuries to his key creators … and then I counter with you didn’t give Ange any leaway when his whole defence was missing (they blamed him)
So what is the reason.
The way that Spence and Micky walked off and ignored him was interesting to say the least
Spence is an issue for me for Frank. His football needs left footers overlapping. It dies with Spence on the left and kills momentum losing one side of the pitch
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Maddison was out loads under Ange
We have added kudus on the right which imo is an equivalence to kulu
If we need everyone fit we have the wrong guy in charge
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My point was more that Son wasn’t the only player that we had lost in a sense. We theoretically lost Maddison, Kulusevski and Son plus Solanke too. So we are four players down on our best attack from last season.

There are no excuses for how pathetic we look in possession. We have a team that is playing well under the sum of its parts right now. We have many good players but they’re not like playing like it right now.
 
The play has been brick fore almost 2 years now. The players Frank can choose from today are not good enough.
We have four elite players to chose from right now Romero, VdV, Palhinha and Kudus the rest is not good enough to compete for a place high up in the PL.

Top ten would be a good achievement for Frank with this group of players.
 
Stiff_Swede said:
The play has been brick fore almost 2 years now. The players Frank can choose from today are not good enough.
We have four elite players to chose from right now Romero, VdV, Palhinha and Kudus the rest is not good enough to compete for a place high up in the PL.

Top ten would be a good achievement for Frank with this group of players.
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I disagree. I think that we have more than that but I think that for whatever reason we are not seeing them perform to the levels that they ought to be capable of and that’s down to the manager, the player and the system.
 
Lemonade Money said:
Did I imagine it, or did someone post before the match we were first in goals from open play this season?
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Most of which came at start of the season, now teams have figured us out. Two of our goals were set pieces at Everton, one against Villa, zero against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, zero against Chelsea, zero against Monaco.

We are devoid of attacking ideas when teams don't come onto us ie at home, that literally can't be denied....
 
harr1984 said:
Yeah we've all said it, it's so obvious our forward need upgrading. But I'll also say this - had you given Ange Kudus,Muani, Xavi and Palhina to hold in the CM plus had our back 5 fit which other than Udogie we have had for the most part ( yes Anges methods partly to blame for that) I would 100 per cent rather watch Anges football than what we have seen this season.

This isn't to open debate on whether Ange should be here instead of Frank, we should all be supporting Frank right now. The point is this group of players could and should be playing better football than it has done. Being less open defensively is not an excuse for the football being served up right now....
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It wasn’t really clear from my post tbf but I wasn’t actually comparing what Ange had to what Frank has. I think if anything I was just lamenting that the thing which has really held us back for some time now is really poor recruitment.

I think Ange had a very low ceiling, I haven’t decided on Frank overall as haven’t seen enough of him, but I like and fully support him, I’m just really hopeful that someone with footballing nous really starts to get our squad building going in the right direction regardless of who is in the dugout.
 
Lemonade Money said:
Did I imagine it, or did someone post before the match we were first in goals from open play this season?
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No
We were before the game and maybe still
I don’t know TBH
But doesn’t that show why some numbers are that misleading
For example would you say we scored a lot of set pieces last year (without checking)?
I think most fans will say no but I’m sure we scored 11 goals from set pieces which is a high number. This year it’s even more prominent because it’s the most dominant way we have of attacking It seems
 
harr1984 said:
Most of which came at start of the season, now teams have figured us out. Two of our goals were set pieces at Everton, one against Villa, zero against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, zero against Chelsea, zero against Monaco.

We are devoid of attacking ideas when teams don't come onto us ie at home, that literally can't be denied....
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Teams aren’t scared of us at all
 
El Dante said:
I disagree. I think that we have more than that but I think that for whatever reason we are not seeing them perform to the levels that they ought to be capable of and that’s down to the manager, the player and the system.
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We have had like 7(?) managers since Poccetino I refuse to believe all these managers are clueless idiots. It is the same as Man U all the coaches they have been through are not useless managers. It's the quality of players!

The players are professionals they should know how to pass the ball or cross the ball to a Spurs player or put three passes together to create an attack without a manager.

If Romero, VdV are out the team will fall apart! And if Kudus is out the rest of the attack is just not good enough, Palhinha out and teams will cut through us in the middle.

This match VdV and Kudus both had stinkers and Romero was on the bench, then it will look like this.

Frank cannot teach Porro how to pass the ball 5m or tell Brennan to dribble a defender, they should know how to do that at this level!
 
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