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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

kb 1984 said:
That's what the right will have you believe woke is it's not.

Woke is someone aware of social & racial injustice someone like me. I hate all forms of injustice. I am not a liberal & I have never acted morally superior waged my finger or shouted anyone down but I will stand with & up for anyone who is being racially abused. I think you would do the same.

stop believing the flimflam the far right put out. If they had there way I would be behind bars for being woke
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It’s not just the right that believe that though. Just because they happen to also believe it doesn’t automatically make it wrong. Plenty of liberals are anti-woke or anti pc liberal culture such as Thomas Chatteron Williams, Stephen Fry, Fareed Zakharia, Margaret Atwood and Bill Burr just off the top of my head. Like I said before it has good intentions but it takes ideas to absurd extremes that actually ends up hurting democrats.
 
Jurgen the German said:
It’s not just the right that believe that though. Just because they happen to also believe it doesn’t automatically make it wrong. Plenty of liberals are anti-woke or anti pc liberal culture such as Thomas Chatteron Williams, Stephen Fry, Fareed Zakharia, Margaret Atwood and Bill Burr just off the top of my head. Like I said before it has good intentions but it takes ideas to absurd extremes that actually ends up hurting democrats.
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Stephen Fry is 100% for social and racial justice

The issue is the term WOKE has been hijacked
 
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Jurgen the German said:
He is and just for the record so am I, but Stephen Fry is anti political correctness, he debated alongside Jordan Peterson against Michael Eric Dyson. I just don’t agree with some of the methods.
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Of course and neither am I, but Woke has been hijacked, in the original meaning those people are very much woke. People have just decided to add meaning to it because its an easy word to throw around on social media
 
Rorschach said:
Eh...what is your definition of woke?
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This is the thing with terms like woke, feminist, Eco friendly. People take the extremist form or the one they don't like and use it to tar anyone who cares about things. Disliking wokeness and woke people while creating a subjective version of this type of person based on your right wing echo chamber is not a value. It's hate.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Of course and neither am I, but Woke has been hijacked, in the original meaning those people are very much woke. People have just decided to add meaning to it because its an easy word to throw around on social media
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I think words have different meanings depending on who you ask. It’s perfectly acceptable that means alert to injustice, but there’s also a certain type of woke person who tries to get people fired and complains about comedy specials on Netflix rather than just switching them off and letting people enjoy them. I don’t think it’s wrong to say that.

Personally I feel a lot of it is a reaction to George Floyd in 2020, which was a horrible incident btw and I’m glad the officer is now in jail. And also an inability or refusal to see progress.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I think words have different meanings depending on who you ask. It’s perfectly acceptable that means alert to injustice, but there’s also a certain type of woke person who tries to get people fired and complains about comedy specials on Netflix rather than just switching them off and letting people enjoy them. I don’t think it’s wrong to say that.

Personally I feel a lot of it is a reaction to George Floyd in 2020, which was a horrible incident btw and I’m glad the officer is now in jail. And also an inability or refusal to see progress.
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Of course the word means different depending on who you ask but thats down to what I have said, you take the actual meaning, you ignore it and you load it with loads of your own meaning so you are then able to throw around a word as an insult.

But the reality is, WOKE as a word has been hijacked

Luton summed it up better than me, but he is not wrong.
 
LutonSpurs said:
This is the thing with terms like woke, feminist, Eco friendly. People take the extremist form or the one they don't like and use it to tar anyone who cares about things. Disliking wokeness and woke people while creating a subjective version of this type of person based on your right wing echo chamber is not a value. It's hate.
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Would you say the people I mentioned in a previous post are right wing? Margaret Atwood, Thomas Chatteron Williams, Bill Burr? Anyone who pushes back against certain aspects of woke culture is labelled a right winger which is wrong.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Would you say the people I mentioned in a previous post are right wing? Margaret Atwood, Thomas Chatteron Williams, Bill Burr? Anyone who pushes back against certain aspects of woke culture is labelled a right winger which is wrong.
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No because they have kind souls, they are not exactly Tiny Tommy, so sane people can make their minds up
 
Grays_1890 said:
Of course the word means different depending on who you ask but thats down to what I have said, you take the actual meaning, you ignore it and you load it with loads of your own meaning so you are then able to throw around a word as an insult.

But the reality is, WOKE as a word has been hijacked

Luton summed it up better than me, but he is not wrong.
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I completely disagree with his choice of wording at the end “hate”.

Do you honestly think that wokeism doesn’t have its drawbacks? The shout downs, trying to get people cancelled, pulling statues down of Churchill, removing Lincoln’s name from schools. Or if those things aren’t woke then what are they? How would you describe them?
 
Jurgen the German said:
I completely disagree with his choice of wording at the end “hate”.

Do you honestly think that wokeism doesn’t have its drawbacks? The shout downs, trying to get people cancelled, pulling statues down of Churchill, removing Lincoln’s name from schools. Or if those things aren’t woke then what are they? How would you describe them?
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Sorry mate, I have not mentioned any of that, I am literally just talking to the fact that the word WOKE has been hijacked which it has.

The rest in the bold I have not mentioned, defended or spoken out about at all?????
 
Grays_1890 said:
Sorry mate, I have not mentioned any of that, I am literally just talking to the fact that the word WOKE has been hijacked which it has.

The rest in the bold I have not mentioned, defended or spoken out about at all?????
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No I mentioned it, but as we’re debating the topic I’m curious as to what you think about the things I mentioned. If you don’t want to respond fair enough.
 
Jurgen the German said:
No I mentioned it, but as we’re debating the topic I’m curious as to what you think about the things I mentioned. If you don’t want to respond fair enough.
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I think people take things to the extreme on all sides of the arguments, I think people do get bored and disengaged when people go OTT with views, but I also think its important to call out racial and social injustice and not be put off by low blows from people saying "oh its just woke" rather than them front up to their own prejudice
 
Jurgen the German said:
Would you say the people I mentioned in a previous post are right wing? Margaret Atwood, Thomas Chatteron Williams, Bill Burr? Anyone who pushes back against certain aspects of woke culture is labelled a right winger which is wrong.
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I don't think because one person somewhere on the internet tries to cancel someone due to "woke" stuff you don't like, we should decide the word woke or woke people are bad. Is that what you are saying?
 
LutonSpurs said:
I don't think because one person somewhere on the internet tries to cancel someone due to "woke" stuff you don't like, we should decide the word woke or woke people are bad. Is that what you are saying?
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No, and perhaps I wasn’t clear or didn’t articulate myself well. More of the fighting to end racism, sexism and all isms, less of the sanctimonious cancelling of people on social media. It’s more than one person but they’re a very vocal minority. I think most people would describe themselves as woke if you’re talking about being alert to injustice. Fairness has always been a principle I have lived by whether that’s in the workplace or in general life. If someone is being unfairly treated then I’ll speak out.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Of course the word means different depending on who you ask but thats down to what I have said, you take the actual meaning, you ignore it and you load it with loads of your own meaning so you are then able to throw around a word as an insult.

But the reality is, WOKE as a word has been hijacked

Luton summed it up better than me, but he is not wrong.
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Condensing things down to labels or single words is a powerful communication/message tool. It makes things really 'simple' for those you are looking to onboard. Used to pigeon hole, as a retort, to dismiss etc etc....its really easy. (innit)
 
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Jurgen the German said:
It used to mean someone who was alert to injustice, and it still does mean that to an extent. But the definition (for me) has changed. It now means an insufferable (usually white) liberal douche, sanctimonious finger wagging, acting morally superior on social media, shouting people down on college campuses. What I will say is that their heart is often in the right place, they have good intentions but bad ideas.
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Gotya. Anything you don't like then.

I have a basic rule of thumb that if someone says woke in a conversation I ignore everything else they say.
 
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Jurgen the German said:
He is and just for the record so am I, but Stephen Fry is anti political correctness, he debated alongside Jordan Peterson against Michael Eric Dyson. I just don’t agree with some of the methods.
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Well that was a serious lapse in judgment. Shame. I am going to have to cancel him as an anti-woke dingdonghead now.
 
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