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The Bigger Picture - aka we've been here before

Mikey10 said:
I agree…to an extent.

It’s quite some time since we saw great football (Villa away perhaps being the exception) and even the early 10 game run masked some obvious weaknesses. Of late, our performances have been dour and there doesn’t appear to be a plan.

Things seem to be going in the opposite direction to what might reasonably be expected; the players seem to be less sure of their roles and the system the longer the manager has to work with them. If a manager’s primary job is to develop those he’s working with then there seems to be little evidence of that so far.

There is an idealistic and stubborn side to Ange which worries me (alongside a lot of things which I really like).

My major worry is that there won’t be a (very necessary) major squad overhaul in the summer. History suggests that’s likely to be the case; the world market for expensive British players is unlikely to be buoyant; and I don’t think we’ll have the balls to pay off contracts in he way the Goons needed to.

That would leave Ange having to develop players who it increasingly seems can’t (or won’t) buy into the system he wants to play.

I think talk of a project is misplaced. If he doesn’t achieve CL football next season then my feeling is he’ll be gone.

I think we absolutely have to back him. But there is a fair bit to be concerned about, I think; as the one reasonable Arsenal fan in work said to me this morning, the team looked lost last night, and Ange looked like he’s struggling for answers and really feeling the pressure.

Unfortunately we’ve all seen the end of that particular story too many times before…
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I think we've seen great football in almost every game. But just in periods. And mixed in too many moments of poor defending and set piece weaknesses.

Even if just the set pice stuff could have been sorted out the last couple of months would have looked very different.

I hope the summer will bring a lot of activity, in and out. I hope some real tough decisions are made and followed through on.
 
braineclipse said:
Very good post.

It takes gifted and mentally strong players. It probably also takes time. Time to grow that trust, to grow the belief that it's OK to take that risk.

Growing that at a time of difficult results, players struggling for form is difficult. That's part of why it takes time. That's part of the reason why there will be inconsistency.

Another very good post and related to the one above I think.

Not sure about the evidence behind a claim like that and there's probably more to it including new signings etc. But we've seen that kind of fluctuation between form and suffering before a system is properly instilled and the right players are in place many times.
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Think it's basis is that it's no different to learning any skill

You see it demonstrated initially and try and do it, get it wrong but it's ok.
You understand how to do it, which slows down the implementation, you get it right sometimes but wrong mostly. The way myelin works is that it's actually failiure that produces skills/talent. The failing repeatedly is what teaches you how and when to implement the skill.
The end phase is that is looks natural/easy and everyone forgets/ignores the other two.

There is an amazing book called The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle all about talent development and how people perceived as geniuses and savants usually are the products of deep practice. Point being that it's no different when teaching a bunch of students in a school or sportsman. It takes time and repeated failiure for the end goal to be reached.
 
DeanoAustin said:
The quality and level is much higher so a flawed system that works elsewhere is much more likely to be exposed in this league.

I said in the 10 game run at the start wouldn't define his reign. It was how he handled the inevitable sticky patch that would tell us how he'll do here. We're now in the thick of it. It's not been great and there were some very worrying signs last night. To be honest, I can almost see how Sunday goes already. Very limp performance and a stroll to victory for Liverpool. We've seen this picture many many times with Tottenham.

This bad run at the end of the season is going to put Ange under pressure to start well next season. If he doesn't, rightly or wrongly, he'll be under pressure. Ange does a far bit of talking about how he knows this plan works as if he's unlocked the secrets of how to be successful in football. He hasn't. He's going to be tested hugely as a man and as a manager over the next few months.
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My HOPE (oh no!!!) is that Ange applies the same metric to his role at the club as he does to his players and staff. Specifically that there is always room to learn from mistakes and success, to evolve and to grow. If he can do that, he could be successful here. Pep has consistently shown a willingness to adapt and grow, and Ange needs to shoe a willingness to adapt and grow.
 
fernadez said:
There was an article about implenting tactics I read somewhere, apparently it's basically split into three stages

1. Players have the general idea and play with no restraints
2. They actually understand the tactics but this causes them to overthink everything and regress
3. The tactics become ingrained and automated and no thinking is required, resulting in the shakles again coming off

Stage 2 we have been at with Jose, Conte and now Ange. Arteta, Klopp and Pep all went through it.

Only question is whether the manager gets to see it through to the other side, and if so are the squad good enough to implement it in a winning way.
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That might explain why this past chunk of games has seen us looking so out of sorts. I'd wager too that long gaps between games and the ever-changing midfield line up doesn't help either,
 
fernadez said:
Think it's basis is that it's no different to learning any skill

You see it demonstrated initially and try and do it, get it wrong but it's ok.
You understand how to do it, which slows down the implementation, you get it right sometimes but wrong mostly. The way myelin works is that it's actually failiure that produces skills/talent. The failing repeatedly is what teaches you how and when to implement the skill.
The end phase is that is looks natural/easy and everyone forgets/ignores the other two.

There is an amazing book called The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle all about talent development and how people perceived as geniuses and savants usually are the products of deep practice. Point being that it's no different when teaching a bunch of students in a school or sportsman. It takes time and repeated failiure for the end goal to be reached.
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I’m not having any of that!
 
90291Spur said:
That might explain why this past chunk of games has seen us looking so out of sorts. I'd wager too that long gaps between games and the ever-changing midfield line up doesn't help either,
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Midfield is such a weird one of late, it doesn't seem to matter who starts, they end up getting replaced around the 45 / 60 minute mark. Sarr as the youngster of the bunch should be allowed more slack but out of our 5/6 options, nobody is even close to being in what can be considered good form.

If Ange chops and changes he might get flack for there being no continuity but if he sticks with the same misfiring trio he'll get called out for favoritism / being stubborn. The chemistry isn't there and it's like no one can pass the ball or hold on to it. Then you add in Royal essentially playing as a midfielder , without wanting to lay in to him as he tries, it's not like putting Xavi in to the midfield. It's actually quite brutal to watch at the minute and I absolutely don't know what we should do. It looks like we just need to buy quality in there, as easy as that is to say....
 
braineclipse said:
I think we've seen great football in almost every game. But just in periods. And mixed in too many moments of poor defending and set piece weaknesses.

Even if just the set pice stuff could have been sorted out the last couple of months would have looked very different.

I hope the summer will bring a lot of activity, in and out. I hope some real tough decisions are made and followed through on.
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I’d honestly be interested to know where the great football occurred in any of the Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Arsenal or Chelsea games. Lots of ineffective possession and poor defending, yes - not sure any of it could be described as great, though.
 
Mikey10 said:
I’d honestly be interested to know where the great football occurred in any of the Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Arsenal or Chelsea games. Lots of ineffective possession and poor defending, yes - not sure any of it could be described as great, though.
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Three games out of 30+ you're picking out.
 
Mikey10 said:
When was the last time you saw anything resembling what is supposed to be Angeball? The Villa game maybe; in general, though, we’ve been a pretty hard watch since the turn of the year at least.
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I think there's arguably been patches in every game. But on a more consistent basis, probably 15-20 games?

That's what, 2/3rds of the games so far this season? Season one? Ideally it'll only increase in the next one.
 
jrh said:
Did they? I thought they camped in deep, barely touched the ball. Regardless, we played really well. Why does there always have to be some negative caveat?
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Villa played a stupid high line with 3 cbs
Make a huge difference to the room we get to play in
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Villa played a stupid high line with 3 cbs
Make a huge difference to the room we get to play in
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You confidently spout such horsebrick sometimes, they parked the bus and had like 30% possession at home and one shot on target.

That's not a team that played a suicidal high line / high press.
 
jrh said:
You confidently spout such horsebrick sometimes, they parked the bus and had like 30% possession at home and one shot on target.

That's not a team that played a suicidal high line / high press.
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Did you watch the game?
I never said high press
They played a high line
 
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