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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Arsenal FC ***

billyiddo said:
A few half chances doesn't change the point of my post - we had a similar Xg to Arsenal once you subtract the penalty so the point we didn't have much to show for the possession stands
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The penalty makes up part of the xg, you can't just subtract parts that make up the xg and leave other bits in to suit your argument. The facts are we had an xg of 2.5 , they had 1 , we should have won the game 2-1 or 3-1 based on that.
 
billyiddo said:
No it's not a stupid comment, your comparison certainly is though.

A penalty gives you an Xg close to 1, so a game total of 2.whatever including the penalty doesn't tell the whole pitcture.
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So if a team scores from a really golden opportunity, we should just disregard the xG, because it's such an obvious goal?

Also, a pen is 0,79 xG
 
Kandi1977 said:
I'm fine with the offside goal. VDV is offside when Porro shoots, and it just ricochets to him off someone. It's not passed to him from an Arsenal player.

The real bugger is the pen we should have had. It's so clear it's not even debatable. Instead, 10 seconds later it's 2-0.
Thats the real game changer.
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I don't think Deki got touched, just lost his balance. Didn't look to be any contact on the replays and he didn't really appeal either.
 
billyiddo said:
A few half chances doesn't change the point of my post - we had a similar Xg to Arsenal once you subtract the penalty so the point we didn't have much to show for the possession stands
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Yet still more to show than the Goons if you want to look purely at xg (you brought it up). Therefore wrong to suggest we did nothing unless you want to concede they did nothing as well?

What were you expecting from us this game? More possession, more shots, more chances? An improvement on last seasons performance? All achieved.

At the end of the day we lost and that’s the important stat. I’ve no idea why anyone would want to try and paint this as a bad or poor performance though on top of that. Nuance is everything.
 
Kandi1977 said:
So if a team scores from a really golden opportunity, we should just disregard the xG, because it's such an obvious goal?

Also, a pen is 0,79 xG
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No, penalties are clearly different and I'm not going to waste my time arguing the sky is blue tbqh
 
billyiddo said:
A few half chances doesn't change the point of my post - we had a similar Xg to Arsenal once you subtract the penalty so the point we didn't have much to show for the possession stands
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Don’t think it’s fair to call them ‘a few half chances’. They were three good chances. 1.35xg alone, if we’re talking about xG (based on Understat). And that doesn’t include the clear penalty we should have had too. Don’t think anyone can deny that we edged the first half in chances.

Not saying that negates the point that we need to get much better at defending set pieces - couldn’t agree more with that.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Yet still more to show than the Goons if you want to look purely at xg (you brought it up). Therefore wrong to suggest we did nothing unless you want to concede they did nothing as well?

What were you expecting from us this game? More possession, more shots, more chances? An improvement on last seasons performance? All achieved.

At the end of the day we lost and that’s the important stat. I’ve no idea why anyone would want to try and paint this as a bad or poor performance though on top of that. Nuance is everything.
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I'm not arguing Arsenal done much, they didn't, they didn't need to either- we gifted the goals to them all they had to do was sit back and let us cough up the type of chances we have been for the majority of the season - I'm merely responding to the post that suggested we had a lot to show for our play, we didn't
 
billyiddo said:
No, penalties are clearly different and I'm not going to waste my time arguing the sky is blue tbqh
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I think you're disregarding the nuances of penalty decisions. They stop play, therefore preventing shots. Therefore, the Xg close to 1 isn't an addition of 1 to what the total Xg would have been as there would have been a chance had the foul not happened. Obviously this isn't applicable to the foul on Davies as play continued.
 
Been back a while now and cant be bothered to read thru the whole thread. My take on it was the game was lost by half time, our defending from set pieces is woeful. Second half you could argue that they took their foot off the pedal but we looked a lot better after the substitutions were made especially after Maddison went off. If the penalty had been 10 minutes earlier we might have nicked a draw. As usual it was fine margins, a fractional offside a penalty not given etc. At half time I thought we were going to lose 5 or 6 nil but at least we gave them a scare at the end
 
There’s alot of we were the better side posts on Social media. They let us have the ball and we created not a lot. Couple set pieces with Romero and that was it really.

They were organised and offered a threat on the counter.

They looked pretty comfy till Raya gifted us a goal then were rattled.

30 minutes and game over. Two weeks to prepare for that. We are a mess at the back and it’s been pretty mediocre since the Chelsea game. We don’t look particularly threatening and are not well organised.

Even in second half VDV mopped up on few occasions. Don’t see many points for rest of season 3/4 maybe.
 
tommysvr said:
I understand I'm going to be in a very small minority, but I come out of that feeling ok. Of course, I'm fudging fuming we lost to them, but thinking longer term I'm comfortable.

We completely dominated them in the first half and played some beautiful football. I honestly think I watched a different game when I read some comments. We had Romero's header glance past the post, hit the post and had a goal ruled out because VDV's arse is a millimetre too big all before they even had a shot on target. The PEH own goal happens in about 1/10 games.

I could be wrong but I cannot believe Kulusevski didn't get a penalty. From there it got bad...terrible to be that exposed, and absolutely criminal from the corner. Truly pathetic that Havertz scored from that.

The second half was scrappy and Arsenal didn't want to play...they've learnt a lot. As soon as they got the second -- probably well before that even -- they were killing the game. Every action of there's was to kill it. Unfortunately, we got sucked into their nonsense too much.

For me, it's the same problems. We just do not punish teams when we're on top. That first half was absolutely nowhere fudging near 0-3. But our inability to punish a team whilst also being so open at the back kills us.

But compare that to the ridiculously meek performance at home to them last season, where we didn't even venture over half way and lost 2-0...I'll take this. Going toe-to-toe with and out-performing one of the top two.

We're going to be so fudging good next season.
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I'm right behind ange, but this is on him.
To have two weeks off and still look like an under 8s team every time we defend a st piece and is not good enough.
It's been our biggest weakness for months, there has been plenty of time between games and it's not getting better.
That needs sorting, and quick.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
And a clear penalty not given

And a Romero header centimeters wide of the post

And a Son one on one with the keeper

But yea, I’m being swayed….
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On another day FC with what should have been a match winning performance were it not for the reality that we lost the game. It's not a great performance if you gift the opposition team 3 goals in the 1st half.

I mean yeah it's great that we didn't get absolutely destroyed if that's actually where we're at in terms of aspirations but it's still 0 points. And that was with their keeper passing us the ball. So that's giving them the game for little effort on their part early days and then them lot conspiring to give it back but waking up just in time to not throw it away.

The 2nd half was less calamitous than the 1st, but I don't recall really enjoying the football that much. If Maddison and Bentancur are having off days (which has been a regular thing since their injured), who is there that really catches the eye with skill / grace that you can't wait to see on the turf? Watching Odegaard today even if he didn't take the game by storm, you could see him oozing class, we looked a bunch of cloggers in comparison.

1st half of the season we looked like we could go toe to toe with good teams, gotta be honest today it just felt uninspiring in comparison. Picking up wins against the likes of Luton and Forest is great but it's unravelling against the decent teams. It's still early days in the project yada yada yada but going out with a whimper will really suck. We need to be way better against Chelsea, conceding a brick load of goals isn't some random freak occurrence nor is it a part of what's known as a great performance.

It's such a a conundrum with Son being our club captain and in theory our talisman now regularly putting in performances like today. Scored a pen so I'm sure the stats will look great but it's not happening. Not going to be dropped but I'd rather keep Werner on the left, Richy back to CF and Johnson on the right.

Can't believe I'm saying this but Lo Celso is definitely due a start as well. Odd times we live in. It'd be nice for our midfield not to have to be rescued by half time subs as well...Wow I'm quite moany this evening! I thought we'd lose so I'm not devastated but I do have a bit of a hollow feeling about the game.
 
djp82 said:
There’s alot of we were the better side posts on Social media. They let us have the ball and we created not a lot. Couple set pieces with Romero and that was it really.

They were organised and offered a threat on the counter.

They looked pretty comfy till Raya gifted us a goal then were rattled.

30 minutes and game over. Two weeks to prepare for that. We are a mess at the back and it’s been pretty mediocre since the Chelsea game. We don’t look particularly threatening and are not well organised.

Even in second half VDV mopped up on few occasions. Don’t see many points for rest of season 3/4 maybe.
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They didn’t let us have the ball when we had more of the ball before their goal
But I do agree with your sentiment
 
spurspinter1 said:
On another day FC with what should have been a match winning performance were it not for the reality that we lost the game. It's not a great performance if you gift the opposition team 3 goals in the 1st half.

I mean yeah it's great that we didn't get absolutely destroyed if that's actually where we're at in terms of aspirations but it's still 0 points. And that was with their keeper passing us the ball. So that's giving them the game for little effort on their part early days and then them lot conspiring to give it back but waking up just in time to not throw it away.

The 2nd half was less calamitous than the 1st, but I don't recall really enjoying the football that much. If Maddison and Bentancur are having off days (which has been a regular thing since their injured), who is there that really catches the eye with skill / grace that you can't wait to see on the turf? Watching Odegaard today even if he didn't take the game by storm, you could see him oozing class, we looked a bunch of cloggers in comparison.

1st half of the season we looked like we could go toe to toe with good teams, gotta be honest today it just felt uninspiring in comparison. Picking up wins against the likes of Luton and Forest is great but it's unravelling against the decent teams. It's still early days in the project yada yada yada but going out with a whimper will really suck. We need to be way better against Chelsea, conceding a brick load of goals isn't some random freak occurrence nor is it a part of what's known as a great performance.

It's such a a conundrum with Son being our club captain and in theory our talisman now regularly putting in performances like today. Scored a pen so I'm sure the stats will look great but it's not happening. Not going to be dropped but I'd rather keep Werner on the left, Richy back to CF and Johnson on the right.
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Son is a huge issue for Ange
I remember when Poch took over and he instantly took his senior players and made them captains (kaboul, ade and Lennon)… but 3/4 the way through the season (possibly earlier) he realised his mistake and what was needed (Kane and Mason fighting them helped)

Now Ange has some decisions to make around son and not because son is a bad guy. I’d argue that son is a counter attacking side would still be damn good but we’re not gonna be that team under Ange. Son does however sell shirts and put tourists on seats.

I also think as good as Kulu was today compared to games against low block sides there is a decision there too

But then that’s why Ange gets paid the big bucks and we just argue on a forum
 
glasgowspur said:
I'm right behind ange, but this is on him.
To have two weeks off and still look like an under 8s team every time we defend a st piece and is not good enough.
It's been our biggest weakness for months, there has been plenty of time between games and it's not getting better.
That needs sorting, and quick.
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It’s worth looking at it over the season (I did on the way home)

Pre city we conceded one goal from a set piece that I could recall and it was Villa at home which was a brilliant cross and header
Since city I made it 9 in 10 games …
I may be wrong and it was a crude shout to the lads whilst my we were in the car to recall some goals but nonetheless things have changed badly on that front

The counter attacks too have increased but I’d argue that since midway of the season people know more about how a team will play and that adds to the that tactically

In theory the set pieces are very fixable. But that normally means coaching time and Ange has made it clear it’s not key for him … that’s the huge worrying issue of true

I do think he will tackle things in phases of the teams development though. Well I hope so
 
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