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The Goon Thread

add in the transfer activity too. but more importantly, your comparison is massively biased against arsenal. because you have compared them against the two clubs that have also performed well given their resources. and one of which (man utd) are now feeling the effects of not having invested heavily in the past few years and as a result they now have an ageing sqaud.

compare arsenal to all of tottenham, liverpool, city, utd and chelsea, and they are doing rather well.

and you may call it "scraping". but again, you need to spend an exponential amount more to not "scrape".

and also, im still waiting for you to name all those many clubs that have caught arsenal up.
 
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for me the biggest criticism you can level at Wenger is his transfer policy, yes he had hits with Viera, Henry et al, but he's always had a dodgy keeper since Seaman left, he has kept faith with too many comedy centre halves and ineffectual strikers

he can pick an am mind, have to give him that
 
i dont think the likes of lehmann, kolo toure, sol campbell, william gallas, laurent koscielny were too bad tbh. and even with olivier giroud now, he's still a full french international.

re the arsenal defense in general, they will conceed a lot of a certain type of goal. the kind that barcelona also conceed. because they play with a high line and depend a lot on 1v1 defending. but because arsenal are not as good as barcelona, they will conceed a lot more of this type of goal than them. its not the defenders' faults. its just the way the team is set up. they're built to score lots and conceed lots (relatively).
 
billyiddo said:
can't find the more up to date finances atm so you'll have to do with this.

...

if i was paying my squad that much more than the team below me then id be expecting to see a better return than scraping past them every season on the last day.
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Might be of interest to you...

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/440962750156513280
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https://twitter.com/sportingintel/status/393373994595807232
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Lehman, he's the worst of the lot, how many games did he cost them when the mist came down, not to mention committing suicide in the CL final

Those cbs are fine (other than Koscielney) I'm talking about luzhniy (sp), stepanovs, senderos, squilacci, Grimaldi, et al

forward wise, wiltord, Jeffers, Reyes, Arshavin, Sanogo, bendtner, aliadiere
 
sorry, posted half way through

Giroud is a full French international yes, so is Kaboul

if a lesser club signed these players fair enough, but a lot of those were signed to play in title challenging teams, it's no wonder they keep falling short
 
kaboul is no absolutely no certainty to get to the worldcup. giroud is. and also on a side note, without the injuries, i had hope that kaboul would become a world class cb.

you mentioned a whole host of players hat werent successful at arsenal. whats your point? every single club has that list.
 
i would hardly call the arsenal players "bargain basement". If you take out the mega millions of utd, chelsea and city, their "bargain basement" bunch of players are the best in the premier league. that is of course unless you have a list of all those teams that have caught them up in the last decade.

and although i would agree that they havent spent all their money. why should they spend for spendings sake? they wouldnt get much value in their purchases if they did this. and more importantly, they probably wouldnt acheive a higher spot in the league either. spending £100m one window will have very little impact when there are teams that have been doing this for fun for a number of seasons now. they're much better off just keeping that in their pockets. the overall result on the footballing side will be the same anyway.
 
that's all fair enough, my initial thought was that I could understand their frustration

it's a bit like being the wife of an investment banker who only takes you to pizza express, it gets the job done but you know it could be so much more
 
afterthought...

and yes final league position probably won't change but if they had a bit more quality in the side they might avoid those embarrassing shot in own foot moments like the Birmingham LC final
 
yh no doubt we can understand their frustration. but i think a better analogy of their situation and frustration would be;

that they are a wife of an investment banker who earns 500k a year and gets taken out to a restaurant with 1 michelin star. but is frustrated because other investment bankers take their wives out to restaurants with 3 michelin stars because they earn 5m a year.
 
galeforce said:
afterthought...

and yes final league position probably won't change but if they had a bit more quality in the side they might avoid those embarrassing shot in own foot moments like the Birmingham LC final
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yh it will increase their chances of avoiding that kind of scenario. and increase their chances a bit of winning the league too. and also to avoid falling out of the top 4 too.
but it doesnt eliminate the chance of that League Cup final defeat. Emirates Marketing Project had one just like it. The question is; is it really worth spending all that money for such little gain?

arsenal (board and manager) have decided it isnt.
 
Neymar said:
yh no doubt we can understand their frustration. but i think a better analogy of their situation and frustration would be;

that they are a wife of an investment banker who earns 500k £143m a year and gets taken out to a restaurant with 1 michelin star. but is frustrated because other investment bankers take their wives out to restaurants with 3 michelin stars because they earn 5m £162m a year.
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Fixed for you ;)
 
Neymar said:
and also, im still waiting for you to name all those many clubs that have caught arsenal up.
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ourselves Everton and Liverpool, possibly more - had we had the extra financial input Arsenal have had then it's quite conceivable that we would all be on the same level (if not have over taken them) - correct me if im wrong but you are saying that Wenger is the reason they are out in front, not the financial advantage they have over us? that may have been true when Wenger brought things to the footballing set up at Arsenal long before other clubs cottoned on but 10 years after his arrival, when everyone got up to speed with the 'revolutionary' ideas he brought to the English game i think it's much more likely finances are the only thing keeping them out in front of the chasing pack. If he was that great of a manager then he'd have kept Arsenal competitive with those above despite their financial advantage as it happens he's just (about) keeping them in 4th place year after year - and when you look at the difference in finances between them and the teams below (compared to the points differences) then i think it's quite apparent what it is that is keeping them there.
 
i wouldnt say the likes of us, liverpool or everton have caught arsenal up. these teams still finish a few points off arsenal on average every year. thats no different to what was happening during the first half of wenger's reign. the following list shows the point gap between arsenal and the team directly below them.

in 98/99 chelsea finished 3 points off arsenal, in 99/00 leeds finished 4 points off, in 00/01 liverpool finished 1 point off, in 01/02 liverpool finished 7 off, 02/03 Saudi Sportswashing Machine finish 8 off. Thats an average of only 4.6 points per season before Abramovic came in.

no doubt arsenal are finishing above us because of their financial advantage. but its wenger that got them there. and wenger that is maintaining that stauts quo. and that is much harder than it seems. just look at liverpool. they fell off under souness and havent ever got back. in addition, if managers like avb, redknapp, jol, santini etc were to replace wenger at arsenal, and wenger came to us, i would feel confident that we could finally overthrow them within 4 years.

i dont beleive that the gap between arsenal's finances and the teams directly below them isnt insurmountable. with a top manager like wenger, i think that gap can be bridged. the gap between arsenal and the likes of city however cannot be bridged given the current financial disparity.
 
i dont beleive that the gap between arsenal's finances and the teams directly below them isnt insurmountable. with a top manager like wenger, i think that gap can be bridged. the gap between arsenal and the likes of city however cannot be bridged given the current financial disparity.
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that is total BS mate, as Rodgers is proving with Liverpool right now

no doubt arsenal are finishing above us because of their financial advantage. but its wenger that got them there. and wenger that is maintaining that stauts quo. and that is much harder than it seems. just look at liverpool. they fell off under souness and havent ever got back. in addition, if managers like avb, redknapp, jol, santini etc were to replace wenger at arsenal, and wenger came to us, i would feel confident that we could finally overthrow them within 4 years.
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i fully agree that Arsenal are where they are because of Wenger - but as everyone else has got up to speed with the behind the scenes stuff which he brought in, his actual match day tactical set ups and so on are being exposed as not as good as they once were thought to be. the reason he got Arsenal in front of everyone else is because he was ahead of the game (in England) in many areas - now that is no longer the case he hasn't got the tactical ability to raise them above their competitors. but thankfully for him Arsenal can afford to have a squad better than the teams below them so will more often than not finish above them. if the financial disparity between Arsenal and the sides below leveled off then id be very surprised if he had the ability to keep them in 4th, VERY surprised.
 
billyiddo said:
that is total BS mate, as Rodgers is proving with Liverpool right now
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I could not disagree more. All rodgers is doing right now is what the likes of Benitez and Redknapp have done. Basically its another false dawn. Everything has gone right for them this season and they are 3 points ahead of arsenal and a few points off 1st place. There is no chance Liverpool will overtake arsenal in overall stature in the premier league in the next 4 years. And deep down i think we all know that Brendan Rodgers isnt going to be a manager of a top 4 side in 4 years time. In short, i think Rodgers is proving jack.


billyiddo said:
i fully agree that Arsenal are where they are because of Wenger - but as everyone else has got up to speed with the behind the scenes stuff which he brought in, his actual match day tactical set ups and so on are being exposed as not as good as they once were thought to be. the reason he got Arsenal in front of everyone else is because he was ahead of the game (in England) in many areas - now that is no longer the case he hasn't got the tactical ability to raise them above their competitors. but thankfully for him Arsenal can afford to have a squad better than the teams below them so will more often than not finish above them. if the financial disparity between Arsenal and the sides below leveled off then id be very surprised if he had the ability to keep them in 4th, VERY surprised.
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I keep hearing that wenger isnt tactically good. But again, i beleive that almost everyone that says this is being massively contradictory.

The same pundits and experts that claim wenger is tactically poor have been claiming that tottenham and liverpool will overthrow arsenal for the last decade because the arsenal players are not good enough and need investment. Pretty much every single year if i remember correctly. And even i'll admit, for many of those seasons, even i thought we could do it. But you know what? Its never happend. So if we are to beleive the likes of Redknapp in that the arsenal team is poor, then surely wenger is a ****ing tactical genius for constantly being able to get that dross of players above us and liverpool.
 
there seems to be talk that Wenger will walk away at the end of the season.
 
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