thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
100% gonad*s. Fact.
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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach
- Thread starter Bale
- Start date
100% gonad*s. Fact.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
I see the logic behind your Moyes argument. I wonder who's going to bite for him? Di Matteo at Chelsea is one of the luckiest situations you could ever hope for. He is a talented manager for sure, but he is absolutely not a great one, not at all.
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
Wenger won the double in his first full season, to be fair.
He took charge in late September, iirc - hardly half a season
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
As I said, he won the double in his first full season. Qualified for the CL in his first season. Hardly clogging it for seasons. And that was from chopping and changing... Bruce Rioch, had a season and a bit, took them over having finished 12th and got them back into Europe and was replaced by Wenger. He'd actually done a decent job, by any measure. Not saying it is right in our current instance but I don't believe in stability for the sake of stability. There needs to be clearly defined goals over specific timescales and I'd be inclined to talk almost on a season by season basis. If not, you'll be eaten by an exceptional Wenger type who doesn't need months and months to figure out where things are going wrong. Not X-Factor generation, just cold hard reality.
the same Wenger that has seen his side decline year in year out for the last seven seasons ?
Wenger hasn't won a thing in 7 years - did they sack him?
Sorry but what are you actually suggesting here? Getting rid of AVB at the end of the season if we haven't made 4th? He's here to implement a long term project and hopefully transfrom this club from grass-roots level up in terms of playing style and ethos. Cold hard reality? No, just sensible, patient approach to what shuoldn't be a fudging monopoly game
What about SAF's record - he struggled for years before winning a cup,
Again - taking over on the 30th of September is hardlly half a season - any which way you look at it.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I don't think that he would have been given the first team coach job title if he had a brief to do that
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
Yep. Perhaps more accurately, the early Wenger at Arsenal. I think he's been living on goodwill there for some time now.
Not sure what that means but the closest comparison is possibly Guardiola who has instilled a certain ethos at La Masia which every graduate follows from an early age
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Wasn't that ethos there long before Guardiola? Overall point taken though
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Can I say that Moyes would have been an even worse choice than AVB. My reasons are as follows:
1 - If people are moaning about not playing 2 strikers in a 4-4-2, do you think you'll be happy with Moyes??
2 - His methods seem to be great at developing defenders, especially CBs imo, and defensive midfielder types, but he seems to grind down creative players and forwards: watch Jelevic go into decline later in the seaosn and become a regular crock; If Fellaini stays another year, perhaps the same will happen to him too. I wonder also how long Mirallas will last (remember Van Der Meyder and Simon Davies??)
3 - I think the shoe-string budget is often overplayed in respect to Moyes; he has art times had money to spend but the retun on his investment over the years is not very good imo. In fact, Harry gets his teams playing much better on less spend.
4 - If we feel bored with AVB's method, we'd feel even more bored with Moyes.
I'm glad we didn't appoint Moyes after sacking Harry; there would have been no point
Moyes is a good solid manager but for the ambitions we
1 - If people are moaning about not playing 2 strikers in a 4-4-2, do you think you'll be happy with Moyes??
2 - His methods seem to be great at developing defenders, especially CBs imo, and defensive midfielder types, but he seems to grind down creative players and forwards: watch Jelevic go into decline later in the seaosn and become a regular crock; If Fellaini stays another year, perhaps the same will happen to him too. I wonder also how long Mirallas will last (remember Van Der Meyder and Simon Davies??)
3 - I think the shoe-string budget is often overplayed in respect to Moyes; he has art times had money to spend but the retun on his investment over the years is not very good imo. In fact, Harry gets his teams playing much better on less spend.
4 - If we feel bored with AVB's method, we'd feel even more bored with Moyes.
I'm glad we didn't appoint Moyes after sacking Harry; there would have been no point
Moyes is a good solid manager but for the ambitions we
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
So we're discussing how long AVB has left based upon what some kid posted on twitter.
Shockingly this kid is not ITK.
I've no idea why people retweet/repost information everywhere without checking if the originator had any credibility.
Shockingly this kid is not ITK.
I've no idea why people retweet/repost information everywhere without checking if the originator had any credibility.
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
They should have done. It looks exactly like stability for the sake of it, based on goodwill. Chopping and changing until you get someone exceptional is as good a tactic as any these days. Didn't work out too bad for Chelsea last season, even if RDM isn't actually all that exceptional (which I don't think he is and I wouldn't be surprised to see him gone before the end of the season). Sometimes it means some short term pain, for sure. It happened when we chopped and changed Jol.
Not at all. I've come around to agreeing with some of the bleaker assessments of our squad but we still need minimum standard of performance and I think most of the recent evidence shows that if you have a mediocre year then you tend not to turn it around. It is a clear indicator that you're not up to it (for now anyway). Those who hit the ground running are the ones who tend to end in the jobs long term. That is why pointing at Wenger as an example of why you should just stick with your man is all muddled. Wenger, initially anyway, lasted so long because of his exceptional talent. Not because he and Arsenal had a long term plan that they stuck to. As if this is some sort of miracle answer on its own. All the patient long term planning in the world won't work if the guy just doesn't have the talent. So what would be a mediocre season? I think I outlined one in previous posts: anything below 7th. This is based on our lowest position over the last few years, having started the season by picking up 2 points in 8 games, with a hopelessly unbalanced squad for 2/3rds of the season. We still finished 8th. So 7th seems like a realistic minimum. If he can't manage that then I don't think he's got the ability. I still expect him to do it, comfortably.
I think this is very kind in comparison to the way the board would be judging it. On recent managerial changes at Spurs, I'd say you get about 2 months bad results tops before you're out the door. Long term plans? Heard it all before. Hoddle had a 5 year plan. Arnesen who in turn brought in Jol was part of a long term plan. Then Comolli and Ramos who followed them. Funny enough, the only one who didn't, who seemed to be the desperate and apparently short term solution was the man who tore it up.
Different era. No Champions League. No Bosman or player power (to the same extent). Your best players stuck around for longer. If you need 4 years to sort things out now then you simply won't be in the job.
What I said was accurate. He won the double in his first full season. Taking over 30th September = still not a full season. Even if you want to call that a full season - he qualified for the Champions League in it. How is that 'clogging it'? And you said 'clogging it for years'. Which implies more than one. He won the double in his second season. There wasn't much clogging it for years with Wenger. He came in and was exceptional from the start. There is no way any Arsenal fans would have been saying 'we need to give him time'
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I've always felt RAWK's rules are pretty well set out when it comes to this sort of info - no source = no flimflam, please
milo
Jack L. Jones
AVB has a different job title to his immediate predecessor, that must have been done for a reason. Did Guardiola have a different job title to Rijkaard?
I think that it is most likely that someone else will be brought in to oversee the football side of things throughout the club and that AVB will concentrate on the first team.
That couldn't be further from the truth and I pray tell Levy sticks to his word this time and sees this out medim-to-long terms.
There are countless examples of slow starters who have been highly successful
What on earth does Bosman have to do with his success - that is strawman, at best.
And yes - there WAS Champions League - simply without the catchy tune.
Point remains - he struggled for years to turn it around.
You're suggesting chooping and changing if we don't win the title this year - well, we've been doing it for more than a decade under ENIC and what have we achieved? One League Cup?
His job-title is irrelevant - what matters is the ethos he introduces to the club and implements on all levels. He can set it out in a report to the youth coach for all it's worth but the underlying principles and overall approach are informed by him (or should ideally be) - as it has been the case in most successful clubs in recent history
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Source is this attention seeker
https://twitter.com/theSPURSinsider/status/270617451065118720
https://twitter.com/theSPURSinsider/status/270617487610101760
https://twitter.com/theSPURSinsider/status/270617500272697345
Looking at his history
on deadline day he posted a lot of bs about Llorente
https://twitter.com/theSPURSinsider/status/241547893692059648
And then still reckoned we were signing Moutinho 10 minutes after deadline when everyone else has given up
https://twitter.com/theSPURSinsider/status/241674154737274882
And earlier in the day
https://twitter.com/theSPURSinsider/status/241557537160314881
People should do a bit of research before reposting crap.