Vinai Venkatesham - CEO

[glasgowspur]

But to bring this back to Vinai in the Vinai thread…do we think that Frank in his interview process explained that he would play football that would be pleasing to the Tottenham fans, but first he would start from a solid base before ‘adding layers’, in the way that his Brentford team also evolved?

Were the decision makers bought into that plan? If so that’s quite concerning. As again, RDZ showed it was possible to play a style of football that would get Spurs fans applauding, within 2 games.

I wonder if the only point VV was brought into was the only constantly made by the media and a reasonable percentage of our fanbase that all our players are brick.
Add to that that Frank was never exactly enthusiastic about the players.
So brick football until Frank could get something to build on.

 

[Mikey10]

80% of the people on this site had never heard of the word "turgid" until AVB became our coach.


(Just seeing how far off topic I can take this thread).

He was nowhere near as bad as Billy Minter.

 

[thfcsteff]

Not true. Ange was blamed by many on here (his thread was constantly near the top of page 1) throughout Frank’s time while Frank was still being promoted as a “great coach”. In fact up to around the 80th minute of the Wolves game (a few weeks ago) there were comments on match threads saying that we should have stuck with Frank. Anyway I agree that it’s time we all moved on.

Very well said IMO. Frank's absolutely got away with one IMO.

 

[thfcsteff]

Those that have a downer on Frank seemingly won't concede an inch or ahow balance. His utilization of the front three in his time there was good to watch. They played quick and attacked as a pack, night and day to what we had here.

Lost Toney then Igor to injury and still ended up 5th top scorers in the league, played loads of central passes unlike here because they had a focus with Wissa, Mbuemo and Schade. Damsgaard was brilliant for them too.

Night and day to what we had here.

I watched Brentford a few times when they were playing different days to us and I was over (a friend of mine works there and my stepdad's a supporter). I saw very little possession football with few central, creative passes. They were a counter-press side all the way. He only got a tune out of Damsgaard in his last season or so; before that he didn't seem sure about him.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Those that have a downer on Frank seemingly won't concede an inch or ahow balance. His utilization of the front three in his time there was good to watch. They played quick and attacked as a pack, night and day to what we had here.

Lost Toney then Igor to injury and still ended up 5th top scorers in the league, played loads of central passes unlike here because they had a focus with Wissa, Mbuemo and Schade. Damsgaard was brilliant for them too.

Night and day to what we had here.

They played quick and attacked as a pack is entirely the point. Teams did not sit back against them, so he constructed a team that would take advantage of that space. He couldn’t do the same at Spurs. He needed to show intent and initiative.

I think it’s perfectly balanced to call it like it is and say Frank massively failed because he couldn’t scale to Spurs. RDZ showed what was possible with a Bentinha central midfield. And of course it wasn’t peak De Zerbi, because it would have been insane to try that with so little time and we needed results. But the intent and desire to control the game was clear, because De Zerbi can scale to Spurs.

In some ways it’s not a knock on Frank, because like Hodgson, like Moyes, these managers just don’t. To bring it back to the thread subject, I’m concerned that our leadership thought that for some reason Frank would be different. Probably because they saw clips of Brentford attacking quickly and equated that to good football, like Fabio did for Nuno, rather than understanding that seizing the initiative at a club like Spurs is paramount. Because we don’t get afforded that space.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

They played quick and attacked as a pack is entirely the point. Teams did not sit back against them, so he constructed a team that would take advantage of that space. He couldn’t do the same at Spurs. He needed to show intent and initiative.

I think it’s perfectly balanced to call it like it is and say Frank massively failed because he couldn’t scale to Spurs. RDZ showed what was possible with a Bentinha central midfield. And of course it wasn’t peak De Zerbi, because it would have been insane to try that with so little time and we needed results. But the intent and desire to control the game was clear, because De Zerbi can scale to Spurs.

In some ways it’s not a knock on Frank, because like Hodgson, like Moyes, these managers just don’t. To bring it back to the thread subject, I’m concerned that our leadership thought that for some reason Frank would be different. Probably because they saw clips of Brentford attacking quickly and equated that to good football, like Fabio did for Nuno, rather than understanding that seizing the initiative at a club like Spurs is paramount. Because we don’t get afforded that space.

Its also fair to say people are talking utter jive about his time at Brentford based on his time at Spurs. You dont become the leagues 5th top scorers by being a poor to watch side.

Anyway its a subject thats been done to death and I dont see whats achieved by tbe continues character assassination TBH.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Its also fair to say people are talking utter jive about his time at Brentford based on his time at Spurs. You dont become the leagues 5th top scorers by being a poor to watch side.

Anyway its a subject thats been done to death and I dont see whats achieved by tbe continues character assassination TBH.

Character assassination come on man.

Are people really talking utter jive? I think the core point of teams offering Brentford more space (because they attack them thinking it’s more likely to be a win) than Spurs is true. Racking up goals at Brentford does not translate necessarily to seizing initiative with Spurs.

It’s not a character assassination to say he failed at Spurs, and that he had been shown up by De Zerbi in terms of what is possible with the squad. He did good for Brentford, he did bad for us. And I still maintain,,,it’s a bit strange that our decision makers bought into the idea he would be playing proactive, pleasing football with us.

 

[Bishop]

Character assassination come on man.

Are people really talking utter jive? I think the core point of teams offering Brentford more space (because they attack them thinking it’s more likely to be a win) than Spurs is true. Racking up goals at Brentford does not translate necessarily to seizing initiative with Spurs.

It’s not a character assassination to say he failed at Spurs, and that he had been shown up by De Zerbi in terms of what is possible with the squad. He did good for Brentford, he did bad for us. And I still maintain,,,it’s a bit strange that our decision makers bought into the idea he would be playing proactive, pleasing football with us.

what makes you think playing progressive attacking football was ever their concern? You realise they hired Jose, Conte and Nuno in the previous 4 years right? When was any of their profiles progressive attacking football?

You're trying to lambast them for something they weren't even trying to achieve. You might want progressive football Levy neither ever cared about that or understood what was needed to achieve it.

 

[thfcsteff]

Maybe my standards are higher than yours, maybe I've watched too much European football but what I saw under De Zerbi whilst a massive improvement on Frank, I wouldn't consider it good football either. For me we don't have the players to play quality attacking football well.

I do believe De Zerbi can do it and do it with balance but he needs additions to do so. We'll see whether he gets them next season.

He appears to have the intent to WANT the ball and players who can play quality, attacking football. Major difference!

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Character assassination come on man.

Its exactly that, some of the rubbish written about him around stuff that doesn't pertain to his time at Spurs is just utter trash. "ohhh he never got it because he played the Media" not to mention the other stuff that speaks to a personal nature about him.

Are people really talking utter jive? I think the core point of teams offering Brentford more space (because they attack them thinking it’s more likely to be a win) than Spurs is true. Racking up goals at Brentford does not translate necessarily to seizing initiative with Spurs.

Yeh they are, my point isn't about Spurs or related to Spurs so your last part is irrelevant. In isolation his Brentford team played good football and scored loads of goals because of the personnel he had.

It’s not a character assassination to say he failed at Spurs, and that he had been shown up by De Zerbi in terms of what is possible with the squad. He did good for Brentford, he did bad for us. And I still maintain,,,it’s a bit strange that our decision makers bought into the idea he would be playing proactive, pleasing football with us.

I never said it was, I said it was when related to the other crap being spouted about him. He failed at Spurs, everyone agrees, the other stuff is just rubbish. You yourself have said you are uncomfortable because people are not laying it on as thick as they should be.

As for being shown up, time will tell, I like RDZ and I think he will do well, but their starts here are identical with this group of players, players who looked to, in part let RDZ down at Chelsea and Leeds with mistakes like they had with Frank.

So I maintain, in no defence of anyone, that this squad is utterly rubbish and unbalanced and needs to improve for RDZ as it did for Frank, anyone that thinks different has their head stuck up their arse.

Anyway, this is the VV thread, not the "why doesn't everyone hate Frank like they should" club

 

[Legohamster]

He's basically repeated back to supporters what their general complaints are and said not our fault but we'll fix it. Telling people what they want to hear essentially.

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[Bishop]

He appears to have the intent to WANT the ball and players who can play quality, attacking football. Major difference!

This i definitely I agree on. I'm quite happy to have De Zerbi, profile and philosophy wise he's someone who looking from the outside in at Brighton matches what I think is ideal.

He was impressive and I can't lie I really thought we were going down so he did a great job there and like you say the approach was better whilst doing so. But as you know I have exacting standards and so I'm not going to pretend that what we saw was some glorious football because let's be real it wasn't. There is hope now though that we might just have the right sort man for the job i just hope we support him properly and don't waste another good balanced coaches time.

 

[Bishop]

Its exactly that, some of the rubbish written about him around stuff that doesn't pertain to his time at Spurs is just utter trash. "ohhh he never got it because he played the Media" not to mention the other stuff that speaks to a personal nature about him.



Yeh they are, my point isn't about Spurs or related to Spurs so your last part is irrelevant. In isolation his Brentford team played good football and scored loads of goals because of the personnel he had.



I never said it was, I said it was when related to the other crap being spouted about him. He failed at Spurs, everyone agrees, the other stuff is just rubbish. You yourself have said you are uncomfortable because people are not laying it on as thick as they should be.

As for being shown up, time will tell, I like RDZ and I think he will do well, but their starts here are identical with this group of players, players who looked to, in part let RDZ down at Chelsea and Leeds with mistakes like they had with Frank.

So I maintain, in no defence of anyone, that this squad is utterly rubbish and unbalanced and needs to improve for RDZ as it did for Frank, anyone that thinks different has their head stuck up their arse.

Anyway, this is the VV thread, not the "why doesn't everyone hate Frank like they should" club

Preach brother preach!

If we accept this squad as it is now. Next season will also be a brick one, De Zerbi or no De Zerbi.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Preach brother preach!

If we accept this squad as it is now. Next season will also be a brick one, De Zerbi or no De Zerbi.

People think the manager is a cure all. No doubt some are a better fit than others, but they are not miracle workers.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

People think the manager is a cure all. No doubt some are a better fit than others, but they are not miracle workers.

Absolutely right, I think managers who are committed to one particular system can produce results with teams that have 1 or 2 outstanding players who can change a game, without that they produce boring football. Amorim at United was a classic case, same players look totally different with Carrick (we should have gone for him), they were a complete shambles when we played them, look where they are now.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Absolutely right, I think managers who are committed to one particular system can produce results with teams that have 1 or 2 outstanding players who can change a game, without that they produce boring football. Amorim at United was a classic case, same players look totally different with Carrick (we should have gone for him), they were a complete shambles when we played them, look where they are now.

It helps when you have Fernandes and also Mainoo to bring back who was naughty stepped, oh and summer signings like Mbuemo and Cunha to integrate properly. The two are incomparable, they were also 6th when he left

 

[Bishop]

People think the manager is a cure all. No doubt some are a better fit than others, but they are not miracle workers.

Yah, I said it earlier this season as a fan base we believe in the Messiah Manager too much. Yes a great manager or coach makes a difference but they have to have players in the first place. Without the players all of that complexity is pointless.

United like you say is a poorish comparison because they have actual game hangers. Players who didn't even have to be player well to be effective. We are the opposite we have to play perfectly with not even a moment slip up just to get a decent result let alone the performance.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Yah, I said it earlier this season as a fan base we believe in the Messiah Manager too much. Yes a great manager or coach makes a difference but they have to have players in the first place. Without the players all of that complexity is pointless.

United like you say is a poorish comparison because they have actual game hangers. Players who didn't even have to be player well to be effective. We are the opposite we have to play perfectly with not even a moment slip up just to get a decent result let alone the performance.

Keeping Frank out of it, others can continue to drone on about him................If we don't back RDZ and we treat the future windows like we have the past, he will go exactly the same way as those before him, its as simple as that for me

 

[harr1984]

Preach brother preach!

If we accept this squad as it is now. Next season will also be a brick one, De Zerbi or no De Zerbi.

People keep saying the squad, and of course we need some upgrades, but the biggest factor will be how we get on with injuries. There is no chance had we a 'normal' injury season we would have been anywhere near where we were positionally. And that outside of City and the Goons any team would struggle missing the number of players we had and key ones at that for long periods.

You only have to look at when we played Aston Villa who put out many of their backups, against us with just as many first teamers out and we were by far the better team and Villa are meant to be one of the better teams in this league. Hardly any team in world football is going to look good having to play the majority of their backups most of the season.
I agree that we need upgrades in key positions to get where we want to be, but if we are going to say our squad is rubbish and then so is 90 plus per cent of the squads in the league....

 

[Finney Is Back]

Its also fair to say people are talking utter jive about his time at Brentford based on his time at Spurs. You dont become the leagues 5th top scorers by being a poor to watch side.

Anyway its a subject thats been done to death and I dont see whats achieved by tbe continues character assassination TBH.

i think George Graham’s Arsenal side were amongst the top scorers in the league