*Official Match Thread* Tottenham Hotspur vs Norwich

[Spursalot]

Re: Bad substitution two weeks in a row

Sorry mate I cannot agree with that at all. Huddlestone is one of the best users of the ball we have at the club. Hindsight is wonderful, but the goal we conceded wasn't to do with Huddlestone (So I was told). Theoretically it made a lot of sense.

I have 2 main concerns with with AVB. How on earth is Livermore suddenly a superior player than Huddlestone and Sandro? and 2, Defoe is a 1 up top formation is frighteningly easy to deal with for the opposition and does not unfortunately work for us.

Either start with 4-4-2, Ade and Defoe... or 4-2-3-1 with Ade up top. Simple.

fudge. AVB, I really want to believe, please stop making this harder for us to understand where you are coming from.

He's apparently not fit enough.

On the second Point, Ade is supposedly not fit enough.


Double sessions for the both of them over the int break. :-k

 

[NWND]

i didnt watch the game today i was clearing out my gutter and checking up on soccer saturday. Sounds liike it was a poor performance today and according to Le Tiss Norwich could have got all 3 points. The frustrating thing is that I can't really judge AVB until he has his team properly together and it wasn't just now. I just wish Levy hadn't fudged around and got us up to speed much earlier so we could have had Dembele, Ade and Dempsey fit and fitted into the system. No wonder we look disjointed when there have been so many changes. We should have had this team together for the majority of the pre-season and not having to bring Ade and Dembele off the bench because they're not fully fit and integrated yet!

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Just got back, we were awful today, players look so disinterested its a joke. Main observation is how slow our tempo is. Last season particularly at home, we started off fast and dominated teams with the tempo we set, whilst today its slower passing tippy tappy sideways really slow with no penetration.

The other observation, which I am quite surprised no-one else has mentioned was our full backs. I love BAE and Walker, but i brought this up last week, although Walker had a slightly slightly better game today, BAE was again very poor. After about 70 minutes he almost seemed to lose his head! The amount of times the pair of them get caught out of position is a joke, its usual stuff, when one full back goes, the other stays. Numerous times today, they both go, then when long ball is played, they are chasing back after their men. Walker in particular is lucky he is so quick because that gets him out of trouble nearly all the time.

On a final note, the boo boys can fudge off to be honest. Get behind our team, we're in transition, there have been lots of changes, yes we were poor today, and yes i was frustrated sitting there watching it, but booing at half time and full time isn't exactly going to help. Instead everyone sat in silence

My hope is that because the full backs game is one to he most changed from last season this is a case of them struggling with the new set up more than most. I hope, at least, they will get to grips with it and start performing soon...

Last year they were full backs, pretty orthodox (though we relied heavily on Ekotto for passing the ball out from the back)

This year they are almost wing backs (based on my observation of the WBA game) where we switch to a 343 in attack (Sandro dropping in between the CBs) and so they become virtual wingers - but then are expected to get back and defend as the other team takes initiative...

 

[thfcsteff]

HE STARTS JAKE LIVERMORE AND JERMAIN DEFOE IN PLACE OF EMMANUEL ADEBAYOR AND MOUSA DEMBELE. Harry does something like that and he'd be crucified on here.

I love how Arry gets slated for 4-4-2 when things are not going well but the new tactical genius has done it 3 out of 3 games.

Don't disagree that the same standards should apply. I personally felt that any chance we had of holding the game disappeared when we went 4-5-1 near the end and brought on Hudd. Defoe had been very very poor, but 4-4-2 tells players to remember they're at home and push forwards. That change was a damage limitation one, problem is we don't do that very well and never have.

 

[sefnot]

Sadly forced to agree. I can only assume that Ade is still not 100% fit, however no excuse, play him for 60 mins if that's the case. And as much as I like Livermore, no way should he be on instead of Sandro, agreed. Dembele and Sandro would've worked well.

The glaring problem is we lack someone to go looking for the ball short and cycle it, to link-and-jink if you will. Luka's absence will be enormously felt unless AVB can find a way of getting Sigurdsson to actually step up and look like a top 4 footballer. Carroll would be my gamble, but again, I understand the problems in playing him now (pressure, team under fire, etc).

I would've liked to see Caulker play at the back today too.

I thought The Hudd looked ponderous in his cameo (in fact his complete inability to make any ariel challenge off that free-kick indirectly led to the shot/goal.

Brad made three marvelous saves, but the goal was same place and nearly the same situation as last week's by WBA; he cannot get down to those anymore. I wouldn't call it a mistake, I'd call it age.

We desperately need to find a way to get Bale and Lennon more into the game, and that will come IF AVB can find someone who is prepared to drop in and look short like Luka did so well and VdV.

I wonder how much Moutinho will really cost us long run? I was gutted we didn't get him for a variety of reasons, and IMHO, the fact remains that if we were 4 minutes too late to push the deal through because Joorchabian was being a taco, no excuse. The blame lies squarely with Daniel. Squarely. A whole summer to address THAT signing, and his ebay-style fetish might well have cost us more than even he could imagine.

Time, as ever, will tell. I'm not ready to panic by any stretch, but even my optimism was severely blunted this afternoon.

I thouht yiou were ging to say something intuitve and then you said "as much as I like Livermore"..so I stopped reading sorry..

lets get it clear ,this guy livermore is the worst midfielder we have had for many a year. he has ZERO technical ability......it is utterly inconceibvable that a club as big as ours has a player with no international youth caps. where the hell has he come from and what the hell is he doing in our first team squad?

 

[DHSF]

I am sorry but to all those that thought just "a tweek" was necessary. It wasnt. Harry's legacy to the team was toxic. We had a brick last half of the season. We lost three key players (Modric, VDV and King) we had only one recognised striker (Defoe) who wanted to leave under Harry. Wholesale changes were going to be required whoever was in charge.

Those that loved Harry (and I didnt) dont forget the team under him was on a real down swing at the end of last season.

Sorry but utter fudging bollox...

You know how many times I got up off my seat today due to the brilliant entertainment on show? ONCE and that was for the goal.

Its dull, its uninspiring, its boring, no urgency, no tempo, no pace, no verve - it was utter brick today. Defensively mediocre, attack wise - we were inept.

We did not need to change brick and I'm incensed. I don't even blame AVB totally - Levy too. Toxic my fudgein arse and if toxic made me go to games being excited, it toxis made me get up off my seat with joy at what I was watching and if toxic made me leave a game with a fudgein smile on my face then guess fudgein what? I love toxic

That was a 1 out of 10 performance today and the 1 was because friedel and dembele played well

 

[thfcsteff]

His post was the most embarrassing post I have read. For a start Norwich actually played today, no way they sat behind the ball. Barcelona don't struggle against teams like that, they struggle against brilliant teams that defend.

Finally, who care if it was better than 1 game last season. It really wasnt, but the point should be about today... today was brick regardless of what happened last season.

These pro AVB posts are ridiculous. How on earth can you defend the first 3 games ? total brick. The only thing the pro AVB people should be saying is "yeah, really bad start but I think it will take time" - thats the only thing im accepting. Dont try and claim that so far it hasnt been that bad.

You know what Golfball? I'm telling you now...calm down!
People are allowed to have opinions, and if you feel you cannot accept them, then I would politely suggest you don't read them for fear of having a meltdown.
Everyone is disappointed and frustrated, but DO NOT try and bully potential posts with your worldview. No-one minds passion and heated debate, but you are treading a dangerous, dangerous line. So enough! Cut it out. Now!

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

You know what Golfball? I'm telling you now...calm down!
People are allowed to have opinions, and if you feel you cannot accept them, then I would politely suggest you don't read them for fear of having a meltdown.
Everyone is disappointed and frustrated, but DO NOT try and bully potential posts with your worldview. No-one minds passion and heated debate, but you are treading a dangerous, dangerous line. So enough! Cut it out. Now!

I must be missing something. What was wrong with that?

 

[thfcsteff]

Im sorry if you felt genuinely threatened. I dont really want to swing at you. Plus i live in Munich. So dont worry little Golfball. When mummy tucks you in tonight, you can rest assured that no nasty men will be after you.

When mean people say nasty things, its always best to run to an adult. Its good that your school teaches you that; either the teachers, or the mods - just make sure your safe and sound little sweet heart.

Armchair, in fairness I have to ask you, too, to withdraw from the mindless debating and move on. We all need to chill. Again, NO PROBLEM with PASSIONATE DEBATE but personal exchanges and wind ups are NOT the way we should see this forum go.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Watching the game I thought Friedel was class and kept us in the game. His save from the header in the first half was really good, couldn't do nothing about the goal, don't think even Lloris would have saved that even though I'm sure some of you would believe he should have saved it, caught it, did a rolie polie and booted upfield to score our second goal.

Our defence really isn't that good, I don't know if its because we are missing King (even at his worst last year we didn't look this bad at the back). I don't know if it's some defensive issue AVB is pursuing with our team, I just don't know but they need to sort it out because a team like City or Man Utd or even Chelsea would absolutely tear it apart.

Dembele and Sandro need to start our next game. I don't know what AVB's infatuation is with Livermore but it needs to stop. I sort of wish it was Livermore getting sent off today just so we don't have to endure him the next game. As for Hudd's sending off, he really didn't look bothered coming on, didn't really look like he wanted to be out there playing and didn't care that he was sent off, oh well, you go in two footed it's going to happen, defend him all you like, if Howson went in on Hudd like that and got a yellow you'd all be fudging going for the refs head.

Defoe needs a rest, and by rest I mean he needs to be dropped. He offers nothing but constant moaning if someone doesn't pass to him. I don't think he's hit the target since the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game and that was lucky itself. Adebayor needs to start the next game with Sigurdsson or even Dempsey off of him for GHod sake, it's getting embarrassing now.

Come on Spurs, sort it out.

Im starting to form the impression that AVBs system is either in or its out. By which I mean its all or nothing, there isnt an inbetween.

The front 3 have to 'get it', or else the midfield will not work. The Midfield need to 'get it', or else the defence will not work. The Defence need to 'get it' or else nothing will work.

We aim to play it out of defence, which means the midfield need to make themselves available. We want a fluid front 3 pushed up the pitch - they need to create opportunities for the midfield to find them. We want a high defensive line tt squeeze play into their half - the midfield is key to this working - if they leave the defence exposed it is stuffed...

...Essentially I think all of it is linked, and all of it needs to come together to make it work (against WBA I would say the midfield and defence were fine (until VDVwent off) and the front 3 were the bottle neck) or none of it will.

Trying to take on the whole thing at once is going to be tough in the short term IMO, and might explain the apparent cluelessness of our play at times.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

----------------- Friedel ---------------
Walker -- Caulker -- Verts -- BAE
--------- Sandro -- Dembele -------
Lennon --- Dempsey -------- Bale
-------------- Adebayor --------------

Vs Reading. Thats a really good looking team...

Agree completely, though wouldnt be surprised with Gallas and Lloris in there.

The exciting bit is the midfield and front line configuration - pace, power and on paper VERY complimentary

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: Bad substitution two weeks in a row

The subs the last two weeks have bemused me too. But what has me completely worried is:

a) last season we tried (didn't always succeed but we tried) to play a possession game, an attractive fluid game. This season we are rigid, tactically inept, dull, defensive minded and too often long ball because we run out of ideas. Now I am fully aware that VDV, Modric and Parker were the three main players in that passing game and all are missing, but I do really hope that it's just a case of the players getting used to the system because we truly are playing a turgid brand of football right now.

b) the last two weeks we've started 4-5-1 and looked average. We switch to 4-4-2 and go 1-0 up. Then, despite us being at home, we switch back to 4-5-1 to play out the 1-0 win and end up drawing 1-1. That frustrates the fudge out of me.

c) AVB seems to think Livermore is a better option than Sandro. I find that very strange!

d) Friedel has been our MOTM the last two matches.....at home.....to average sides. That is VERY worrying! And he'll probably be dropped for the next league game too which would send out an awful signal to the players IMHO. But how can you sign Lloris and then have him on the bench? That would send out a bad signal to anyone wanting to join the club.

e) we don't have a single midfielder who can put their foot on the ball or who is comfortable receiving a pass under pressure. Last season Modric/VDV/Parker were all very good at receiving the ball under pressure, this season we only have Bale who can receive it under pressure and still produce a pass or keep possession.

AVB has a lot of work to do, but we still have the players at the club to make top six. My final thoughts are that I warned people last season that the previous three years have been a mini golden era. People were so focused on the negatives and misguidedly believing that we could (even should!) have done better that they utterly failed to appreciate what was being achieved. Two 4th places in three seasons is an AMAZING achievement for a club of our limited stature. Even if Redknapp had stayed it was highly unlikely that we'd have matched the last three seasons, this season because those last three seasons we were punching above our weight. It simply wasn't sustainable regardless of who is in charge.

 

[sefnot]

Agree completely, though wouldnt be surprised with Gallas and Lloris in there.

The exciting bit is the midfield and front line configuration - pace, power and on paper VERY complimentary

agree. i think dempsey ironically is going to be a very important player for us

 

[colin fishwick]

Re: Bad substitution two weeks in a row

Sorry mate I cannot agree with that at all. Huddlestone is one of the best users of the ball we have at the club. Hindsight is wonderful, but the goal we conceded wasn't to do with Huddlestone (So I was told). Theoretically it made a lot of sense.

I have 2 main concerns with with AVB. How on earth is Livermore suddenly a superior player than Huddlestone and Sandro? and 2, Defoe is a 1 up top formation is frighteningly easy to deal with for the opposition and does not unfortunately work for us.

Either start with 4-4-2, Ade and Defoe... or 4-2-3-1 with Ade up top. Simple.

fudge. AVB, I really want to believe, please stop making this harder for us to understand where you are coming from.

It is not as simple as the goal we conceded was not Hudds fault. Hudd on instead of Defoe was always likely to cost us. Do mot agree with your view of Hudd, but even if I did, he was not match fit.

Not really just using hindsight, because I said exactly the same thing last week, when the same thing happened. The proof is in the pudding, look at Jds last 10 mins and look at Hudds.

Surely AVB would have sussed that bring on a midfielder who is not match fit , was not likely to work. It was not all a safe option, it was risky and for what benefit? Very, very limited upside.

With 13 mins left we had used all or subs, we could have got an injury and had to play with 10 men.

On another point, we have looked the most dangerous with ADE and JD on the pitch and we have scored both our goals when that has been the case, the only problem is it is only for about 15 mins a match.

 

[Mumorn]

I wonder who'll be benched comes the Reading game.

Sandro or Dembele, take your pick? Defoe to continue starting? Siggy to be dropped for Dempsey? Friedel was our best player today, is AVB going to ruin his record? All interesting, yet most of us know who we want to start, how hard is it for our manager to get it right?

 

[marcospur2]

And in the spirit of questioning - once again he switched from 451 to 442 and back again.

Personally I thought it was a disaster against WBA and it seems today it did us no favours.

That is something that concerns me, and I can only hope it is because he didnt have the likes of Dempsey on the bench

I agree, my concern though (yours may be different?) is about timing and how the changes are made. It seems like we make a change and the whole system/structure of the team's play gets completely lost. I don't want AVB to be too rigid, but the changes he makes have to have more clarity. That may be about walking before you can run in recognition that it will take time. Indeed, it is not so much about how the system is constituted but about how the key elements work together and it is that where things are not quite working yet (not helped I will concede by instability in personnel because of the window etc).

 

[Viper]

I thought we looked ok for the 5 mins we played 4-4-2. Then as soon as we scored AVB went back to the brick system that didn't work in the first half and invited us onto them.

 

[Spursalot]

I wonder who'll be benched comes the Reading game.

Sandro or Dembele, take your pick? Defoe to continue starting? Siggy to be dropped for Dempsey? Friedel was our best player today, is AVB going to ruin his record? All interesting, yet most of us know who we want to start, how hard is it for our manager to get it right?

Not sure if serious...


We know who we want to start, but we're not there behind the scenes watching them as they are training and seeing who is ready and who is not..

 

[Mr Cracker]

fudging cuuuuuuuuuunt off avb you asshole !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[thfcsteff]

I thouht yiou were ging to say something intuitve and then you said "as much as I like Livermore"..so I stopped reading sorry..

lets get it clear ,this guy livermore is the worst midfielder we have had for many a year. he has ZERO technical ability......it is utterly inconceibvable that a club as big as ours has a player with no international youth caps. where the hell has he come from and what the hell is he doing in our first team squad?

Did you really stop reading or did you carry on? Funny comment considering what I went on to say...by the way, like it or not, he is a full international...I won't bother repeating what I said after you stopped reading. if you're motivated, check it out. Might surprise you mate ...:ross::-"