Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Lemonade Money]

There was an article yesterday about 4 potential clubs for Glasner to go to best of which we was one and the verdict was:

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It's a fair question and a good point, we chew managers up and spit them out like nobody's business. For that reason alone I'd like Frank to be given a real fair crack at this job bar an absolute disaster....

Jol, Redknapp, Poch. Same as any club. Do well, reputation enhanced. Do brick, reputation tarnished.

 

[braineclipse]

I guess last season answered that question!!

At the end of the day it comes back to..... the players available. Pretty sure if we had a Rodri or a Kante or a Busquets we could afford to have just one "pure" DM. Problem is that we our recruiting has made sure we have basement sale equivalents. As I believe Frank has noticed, no one in our squad has been close to that level; hence bringing in Paulinha, and even then ... hence the two DMs.

Hopefully one of these can now be Gallagher and we can see more progression without losing too much solidity.

At the end of the day, a builder is as good as the tools at his disposal...

I have heard rumours that there may be other approaches and styles of play in world football than what's represented by Ange and Frank.

I have also heard rumours that it's sometimes possible to play decent football without world class players.

 

[Mabspurs]

Jol, Redknapp, Poch. Same as any club. Do well, reputation enhanced. Do brick, reputation tarnished.

Though I guess it doesn't do much harm to have the likes of Berbatov, Keane, Modric, Bale, VDV, King, and a whole team of stars under Poch led by one the very best strikers in the history of the premiership...

 

[Mabspurs]

I have heard rumours that there may be other approaches and styles of play in world football than what's represented by Ange and Frank.

I have also heard rumours that it's sometimes possible to play decent football without world class players.

But the Frank out crowd is not asking for "decent football"... they are expecting WINS through attractive expansive football and at the same time keeping a solidity at the back...

 

[Finney Is Back]

So let us look at this...

These are last season's EPL statistics when either, both or none of Romero and Micky played:

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You would expect that our best defensive performance would be when both played, followed by when one and worst with none. It does not follow that pattern. The only statistically significant difference is between the games when both played vs when only one of them played. Most interestingly, there is no statistical difference between games when both played (which only included two games against top 6 opposition) as opposed to when neither played.

Not saying that having Romero and/or Micky in the team is not important; but the perception that this season's much better xGA is because at least one of the two was always available is not borne by science... it is much more logically plausible that the improvement is down to the coach; even though some will never give him that....

Eh? It looks very significant to me? When our best partnership played together we conceded only 1 goal a game (which I think is better than this season).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Though I guess it doesn't do much harm to have the likes of Berbatov, Keane, Modric, Bale, VDV, King, and a whole team of stars under Poch led by one the very best strikers in the history of the premiership...

Who knew?,…. Good managers put together good teams…

 

[Finney Is Back]

But the Frank out crowd is not asking for "decent football"... they are expecting WINS through attractive expansive football and at the same time keeping a solidity at the back...

One or the other would probably do. It would certainly be better than not getting wins while playing perhaps the worst football in the league.

 

[Mabspurs]

Who knew?,…. Good managers put together good teams…

Seeing as none of them (especially Jol and Poch) were managers but head coaches and we saw Poch's ability to spot players with purchases of Ndombele and Lo Celso... maybe one could also say...

Who knew?.... Good managers look good when they have/find good players

 

[Mabspurs]

One or the other would probably do. It would certainly be better than not getting wins while playing perhaps the worst football in the league.

Well.... the Frank out gang were still baying for blood even after the improved performances against Bournemouth and Villa....

 

[Mabspurs]

Eh? It looks very significant to me? When our best partnership played together we conceded only 1 goal a game (which I think is better than this season).

Suggest you do a course in inferential statistics... then we can talk about the difference between true scientific statistical significance and "it looks very significant to me"....

 

[parj]

I was specific enough, should be winning any of the games individually does not equate should be winning all of the games (sport simply doesn't work like that)

As I said, I expect with this squad to do better than earning 7 less points than Leeds has at home over the first 21 games, clearly you don't, so we are where we are.

Mate, I agree with you. Leeds and Sunderland are who we should aspire to be based on lots of posts that our squad is so brick. Their squads are the squads we want.

There is this bizarre perception that Maddison will force our players to pass the ball forward and support them - I'm assuming we are not allowed to do that unless Maddison is on the pitch.

Not being funny, but the first games looked really good - no Maddison, Kulu or Solanke.

First 10 - goals scored 17, conceded 8
Next 10 - goals scored 11, conceded 16

As far as I'm aware, Romero and VDV have been available but our defence is conceding more as the season goes on. Surely there would be some coaching on how to defend? Or is that because we don't have Maddison, Kulu, and Solanke?

That excuse only goes so far. It is possible that like Ange, TF has a limited style and has been found out already.

 

[parj]

I think, taking away all the surrounding noise regarding Frank, that you want to see with any new manager is what they can do with the strongest players available to him for a good amount of time - what we have seen so far is what he has done with a first choice defence and a 2nd choice/patched up attack.

I don't think it's a leap to believe that with 3 of our most effective attackers from last couple of seasons available that we would have fared better at that end of the pitch - and so given the compact nature of the league that could be the difference between the disappointing position we find ourselves in and knocking on the door of having a good season.

I disagree with wanting to see what a manager can do with the strongest. I want to see what they do when things go against them as well. No point in having a manager that needs Emirates Marketing Project money to play well unless we going to spend Emirates Marketing Project money.

9 teams currently have 7 to 9 injuries so it's not exclusive to us. Only 2 are below us in the league - Bournemouth and Burnley - one of them sold Huijsen, Kerkez, and Semenyo on top of that.

You can still implement a way of playing in that time. We don't put the club on hold and not train a philosophy because nobody can ever do what Kulu and Maddison do.

 

[billyiddo]

I disagree with wanting to see what a manager can do with the strongest. I want to see what they do when things go against them as well. No point in having a manager that needs Emirates Marketing Project money to play well unless we going to spend Emirates Marketing Project money.

9 teams currently have 7 to 9 injuries so it's not exclusive to us. Only 2 are below us in the league - Bournemouth and Burnley - one of them sold Huijsen, Kerkez, and Semenyo on top of that.

You can still implement a way of playing in that time. We don't put the club on hold and not train a philosophy because nobody can ever do what Kulu and Maddison do.

You need to see both sides of the coin of course but walking in to a job without having the opportunity to put things in place with your strongest players is a tough gig - can't think of a manager appointment of ours who had to deal with missing so many influential players straight off the bat.

I'd argue that you're in a better position to deal with player absences once you've had a period of time putting things in place with a stronger team.

 

[Bishop]

Mate, I agree with you. Leeds and Sunderland are who we should aspire to be based on lots of posts that our squad is so brick. Their squads are the squads we want.

There is this bizarre perception that Maddison will force our players to pass the ball forward and support them - I'm assuming we are not allowed to do that unless Maddison is on the pitch.

Not being funny, but the first games looked really good - no Maddison, Kulu or Solanke.

First 10 - goals scored 17, conceded 8
Next 10 - goals scored 11, conceded 16

As far as I'm aware, Romero and VDV have been available but our defence is conceding more as the season goes on. Surely there would be some coaching on how to defend? Or is that because we don't have Maddison, Kulu, and Solanke?

That excuse only goes so far. It is possible that like Ange, TF has a limited style and has been found out already.

We don't want Sunderland' squad, but we do want some of their key players. Xhaka is a significantly better in possession midfielder than anything we have (excluding Gallagher for now but even him really in terms of passing range). So if you do want the ball played forward more purposely then swapping Xhaka for any of our CMs would get you a better result and performance than what we've seen.

We need to move away from this superiority complex where lower stature teams couldn't possibly have some better fitting and suited components than we do, because guess what many of them do.

 

[billyiddo]

We don't want Sunderland' squad, but we do want some of their key players. Xhaka is a significantly better in possession midfielder than anything we have (excluding Gallagher for now but even him really in terms of passing range). So if you do want the ball played forward more purposely then swapping Xhaka for any of our CMs would get you a better result and performance than what we've seen.

We need to move away from this superiority complex where lower stature teams couldn't possibly have some better fitting and suited components than we do, because guess what many of them do.

There's so much money floating around the PL that pretty much all teams are able to attract players from abroad that are of a good level - outside of the foreign elite clubs most players are up for grabs to even the lowest of Prem sides purely due to the financials.

 

[Bishop]

There's so much money floating around the PL that pretty much all teams are able to attract players from abroad that are of a good level - outside of the foreign elite clubs most players are up for grabs to even the lowest of Prem sides purely due to the financials.

With regards to your last bit, I think a truth that many of us should know is a few key stand out individuals are more impactful than a higher floor but with no actual top talents.

That's where we find ourselves now versus the period directly post Poch. Then we also had a middling squad but it was buoyed by the quality of Kane and Son. Now the overall squad quality has improved but it's peak ability and it's off the cuff match deciding ability is massively degraded. And that's what a team like Sunderland have, they have, Xhaka a player who despite the Tottenham fan base's biased dismissal of, is a match decider.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Seeing as none of them (especially Jol and Poch) were managers but head coaches and we saw Poch's ability to spot players with purchases of Ndombele and Lo Celso... maybe one could also say...

Who knew?.... Good managers look good when they have/find good players

Laughing at how you have to try to split hairs to (not even) prove a point. All of those managers did very well at Spurs, They all vastly improved us versus what came before. It is easy to say they had good players because those managers (or coaches or however you want to split hairs) either brought those players in or at least developed them,

 

[Finney Is Back]

Well.... the Frank out gang were still baying for blood even after the improved performances against Bournemouth and Villa....

‘Improved’ doesn’t equal ‘good’. Christ we’re really scraping the barrel if we’re holding up two losses with barely adequate performances as justification for keeping the manager. I’m still not convinced the second half against Villa wasn’t the players saying ‘fudge it’ and playing the way they wanted instead of to the manager’s instructions, especially as it was so different to the first half.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Suggest you do a course in inferential statistics... then we can talk about the difference between true scientific statistical significance and "it looks very significant to me"....

I’ve got an A level in pure maths and statistics (grade A - before the A star stuff existed) as well a first class degree in pure mathematics.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We don't want Sunderland' squad, but we do want some of their key players. Xhaka is a significantly better in possession midfielder than anything we have (excluding Gallagher for now but even him really in terms of passing range). So if you do want the ball played forward more purposely then swapping Xhaka for any of our CMs would get you a better result and performance than what we've seen.

We need to move away from this superiority complex where lower stature teams couldn't possibly have some better fitting and suited components than we do, because guess what many of them do.

We might want 1 or 2, maybe even 3 of Sunderland’s players but they’d want 8 to 10 of ours. If Frank needs a specific type of player to make his unambitious system work then he should’ve ensured the club spent some of the considerable transfer budget it spent in the summer on that player…. How much did Xaka cost Sunderland for example?