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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Grays_1890 said:
We are in a much harder comp in the CL though and earlier in season with as big an injury crisis. Would you take TF throwing the CL for a better PL campaign?
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No
But you were factually incorrect
And he hasn’t had as big an injury crisis has he?
I believe he has had plenty of first team players to choose from in every position
I may be wrong and he may have had to play gray at CB again…. I can’t remember TBH
But if we wanna talk about Ange again vs Frank then it’s getting boring
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No
But you were factually incorrect
And he hasn’t had as big an injury crisis has he?
I believe he has had plenty of first team players to choose from in every position
I may be wrong and he may have had to play gray at CB again…. I can’t remember TBH
But if we wanna talk about Ange again vs Frank then it’s getting boring
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It's not factually incorrect, we don't have the luxury of accepting to dive bomb a comp like we did from Jan to navigate one of them better. That's just a fact, thats not about Ange v Frank thats just where this club is with the squad we have, that and the CL and PL as a combined two comps to navigate are hard work.

Personally I said it before, I would happily forgo the CL and get the Pl straight, just to put my money where my mouth is on the subject.

As for the injury crisis, there was a stat on here the other day, its the biggest in Europe with number of players missing and therefore games missing
 
Grays_1890 said:
We are in a much harder comp in the CL though and earlier in season with as big an injury crisis. Would you take TF throwing the CL for a better PL campaign?
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"throwing" is an interesting word.

I'd happily Frank plot his absolute best teams in the PL. Get some consistent line-ups and then let the CL fit around the PL being our no 1 priority.
 
Grays_1890 said:
It's not factually incorrect, we don't have the luxury of accepting to dive bomb a comp like we did at the end of last season to navigate one of them better. That's just a fact, thats not about Ange v Frank thats just where this club is with the squad we have, that and the CL and PL as a combined two comps to navigate are hard work.

Personally I said it before, I would happily forgo the CL and get the Pl straight, just to put my money where my mouth is on the subject.
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Frank does not have as many games to deal with as we did by this point last season. It’s not correct, that’s all

He also has a lot more players to choose from than we did last season even with injuries

But it’s a different season and that’s true too

I actually think without the CL Frank would look even worse although we have struggled in all the when apart from Copenhagen. The frequency of games give him time to say onto the next one. If he had a week for fans to stew before the next one it would be worse, IMO of course
 
Muttley said:
"throwing" is an interesting word.

I'd happily Frank plot his absolute best teams in the PL. Get some consistent line-ups and then let the CL fit around the PL being our no 1 priority.
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I think he is trying that
He just doesn’t know his best team or set up
It’s so reactive to the last game and the opposition.
He got it right vs PSG (no mean feat) and went again with a very similar set up at home to Fulham. I don’t believe he would have done that formation if it hadn’t have worked in the main vs PSG
I think he is in the period of self doubt and maybe imposter syndrome now
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Frank does not have as many games to deal with as we did by this point last season. It’s not correct, that’s all

He also has a lot more players to choose from than we did last season even with injuries

But it’s a different season and that’s true too

I actually think without the CL Frank would look even worse although we have struggled in all the when apart from Copenhagen. The frequency of games give him time to say onto the next one. If he had a week for fans to stew before the next one it would be worse, IMO of course
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I was comparing the end of last season, hence the giving up on games, which literally 90% of the fans have said we did at the end of last year to justify the form. My point was would they accept the same at this point of the season to see un upturn in league form to justify a concentration on resources, also given the injuries, which despite your constant protests is clearly an impact

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Grays_1890 said:
I was comparing the end of last season, hence the giving up on games, which literally 90% of the fans have said we did at the end of last year to justify the form. My point was would they accept the same at this point of the season to see un upturn in league form to justify a concentration on resources, also given the injuries, which despite your constant protests is clearly an impact

View attachment 20917
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Huge risk
And imo not one the club or fans would accept again
Last year we knew the goal and it was obvious (I booked my hotel last October)
This year the goal was to be better in the league and have a cup run.
But if we were going ok in the league I’d be ok with focusing on it
The issue is our data since day one has been bottom half and we have achieved record lows.

Would you as a club permit him to do that without a track record?

The injury numbers by the way, as I’ve repeated, include players who were out before the season began. I’m not even sure Maddison is in the squad as a named player, but imo it’s very very misleading
Now, If say him and maybe kulu had played the first 3 games and were clearly part of Frank’s style of play and then went missing…. I’d say that’s why. Could see that with Ange and also other managers because we know how they played
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Huge risk
And imo not one the club or fans would accept again
Last year we knew the goal and it was obvious (I booked my hotel last October)
This year the goal was to be better in the league and have a cup run.
But if we were going ok in the league I’d be ok with focusing on it
The issue is our data since day one has been bottom half and we have achieved record lows.

Would you as a club permit him to do that without a track record?
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Then we need to accept some of the limits our resources have then IMO. Which the CL being the hardest comp on the planet, with the PL presents a much different proposition.

Anyway we wont agree
 
Daisuk said:
I haven't been on Twitter for ages, but see today that there are rumors of the club supposedly having contacted three managers for potentially taking over the job. Make of that what you will! haha.
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Gabriel Heinze
Chris Coleman
And....Kevin Lasagna as player manager (real player!)

That list is about as reliable as Twitter sauces
 
billyiddo said:
24/25 by 1st December
13 PL
2 League Cup
5 Europa League

25/26 by 1st December
13 PL
2 League Cup
5 Champions League
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And in December?
We played 2 more games didn’t we vs Pool
So Frank does not have as many games to deal with
Unless we’re saying managers don’t plan for future games
 
I think it’s hard to know whether it’s worth prioritising one competition or another at this stage. The CL makes it different because we’re never going to be favourites. That said, if we’re in the semis, and we’re 9th in the league, I’d absolutely be fine ‘throwing’ our PL games to increase our chances of winning the CL, even if it meant we finished 13th or something. But the calculation becomes more tricky if we’re still well within CL / EL qualification via the PL for next season.

Equally for the FA Cup. Would I be willing to ‘throw’ some league games to increase the odds of winning it? Probably, but only if we’re fully out of the contention of the league places. If we aren’t, it becomes a difficult consideration where we have to weigh it all up.

Of course last season there was no chance of the league places, and no chance of European football. There was probably no chance of a top half finish. So to me the play was obvious. Any increase in the chances of winning the EL, and taking away our chances of clawing back to 12th or something, I’d make that trade all day long.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I think it’s hard to know whether it’s worth prioritising one competition or another at this stage. The CL makes it different because we’re never going to be favourites. That said, if we’re in the semis, and we’re 9th in the league, I’d absolutely be fine ‘throwing’ our PL games to increase our chances of winning the CL, even if it meant we finished 13th or something. But the calculation becomes more tricky if we’re still well within CL / EL qualification via the PL for next season.

Equally for the FA Cup. Would I be willing to ‘throw’ some league games to increase the odds of winning it? Probably, but only if we’re fully out of the contention of the league places. If we aren’t, it becomes a difficult consideration where we have to weigh it all up.

Of course last season there was no chance of the league places, and no chance of European football. There was probably no chance of a top half finish. So to me the play was obvious. Any increase in the chances of winning the EL, and taking away our chances of clawing back to 12th or something, I’d make that trade all day long.
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Benefit with the CL is it’s a league so you get extra lives
And let’s be honest… we have mainly got opposition that would be Europa standard hence why we played some of them last season
It’s a luxury and maybe that’s where you try new things like we did vs psg
 
Bedfordspurs said:
And in December?
We played 2 more games didn’t we vs Pool
So Frank does not have as many games to deal with
Unless we’re saying managers don’t plan for future games
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As things stand, the number of fixtures we have played at this point is the same this season as it was last season - we have not yet had to deal with games that have not taken place.

In December there's one less game scheduled compared to last season.

An argument could be made regarding CL v EL and which competition you are able to make more wholesale changes in - without looking at the line ups I'm pretty sure our early group stage games in the EL saw almost fully 2nd string sides being selected
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I think he is trying that
He just doesn’t know his best team or set up
It’s so reactive to the last game and the opposition.
He got it right vs PSG (no mean feat) and went again with a very similar set up at home to Fulham. I don’t believe he would have done that formation if it hadn’t have worked in the main vs PSG
I think he is in the period of self doubt and maybe imposter syndrome now
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I'd actually like to see this in stats. I get the impression that these players would mostly play - Vic, Porro, Romero, VDV, Udogie, Palhinha, Bents, Kudus and probably Richi.

Spence has been consistently selected when Udogie couldn't make the line-up and has probably played more over the course of the season.

You would think that when 8 or 9 players play a lot together, then the others would fit around them.

I think the problem is different. I think he is feeling that he has to tweak the system when he changes the personnel, even from the bench. Spence and Udogie are one good example. Bents and Berg another. Kudus and Johnson another. Even Danso for one of the 2 centre halves probably drives tweaks by Frank.
 
Just watched Frank's presser today.

First of all, the amount of pressers these managers have to do is ludicrous. Ludicrous!

Secondly, I have to say I thought he handled every single question with honesty, calm, grace, and no equivocation. He is generally great with the media.

Thirdly, he made it very clear in response to one question regarding style that he is not going to be wedded to one specific style, and that he will continue to pursue his beliefs/approach to matches which involves a lot of 'opposition mitigation' as opposed to 'we are who we are'.

Fourthly, he did make a decent point about the compression of matches not giving him and his staff much time between games right now to work on things.

Finally, it reinforced my overriding thought that support of Thomas Frank should be there as long as he is our manager, yet questions need to be asked. And the main one (again IMO) is IF you believe he deserves time, then you must be aligned to his vision. And that vision looks to me to be creating a better version of the type of football he is having us play now. My personal dilemma remains the fact that I do not like or enjoy said-style, and I also do not believe he can 'upscale' to the levels I believe a Spurs manager should look to be at.
 
Muttley said:
I'd actually like to see this in stats. I get the impression that these players would mostly play - Vic, Porro, Romero, VDV, Udogie, Palhinha, Bents, Kudus and probably Richi.

Spence has been consistently selected when Udogie couldn't make the line-up and has probably played more over the course of the season.

You would think that when 8 or 9 players play a lot together, then the others would fit around them.

I think the problem is different. I think he is feeling that he has to tweak the system when he changes the personnel, even from the bench. Spence and Udogie are one good example. Bents and Berg another. Kudus and Johnson another. Even Danso for one of the 2 centre halves probably drives tweaks by Frank.
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Your right with the volume players
Issue as we know is Palhina and bentacur at home has been as creative as a turd being rolled in glitter
But he’s has dabbled in front of them and also in who is accompanying them
Saturdays experiment followed Wednesdays result which I think he would have been pleased with (I was too for what that’s worth)
His biggest fudge up was going with the 8 man defence against Arsenal. That IMO lost him credibility with his players and also some fans saw it as an approach of anything to not lose.
That will not have inspired the players from the start and with the way it’s turned out even less so
So now when he changes things the players are subconsciously maybe even directly doubting the manager
Remember when Frank changed to 3 at the back vs Everton last season..z toxic rot started
 
thfcsteff said:
Finally, it reinforced my overriding thought that support of Thomas Frank should be there as long as he is our manager, yet questions need to be asked. And the main one (again IMO) is IF you believe he deserves time, then you must be aligned to his vision. And that vision looks to me to be creating a better version of the type of football he is having us play now. My personal dilemma remains the fact that I do not like or enjoy said-style, and I also do not believe he can 'upscale' to the levels I believe a Spurs manager should look to be at.
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I think he should get time because I don't think 4-5 months of football is enough to judge a manager. It has nothing to do with his vision or whether I buy in to it or not. I'll have a better idea where I stand on that once I've seen it have some room to breath and develop.

We saw last season in the Europa League that the ends justify the means wrt buy in to vision - we abandoned the romanticism of Ange-ball in the EL while we floundered in the league with it and it is the former that was the strongest argument for giving him a third season after all.
 
thfcsteff said:
Just watched Frank's presser today.

First of all, the amount of pressers these managers have to do is ludicrous. Ludicrous!

Secondly, I have to say I thought he handled every single question with honesty, calm, grace, and no equivocation. He is generally great with the media.

Thirdly, he made it very clear in response to one question regarding style that he is not going to be wedded to one specific style, and that he will continue to pursue his beliefs/approach to matches which involves a lot of 'opposition mitigation' as opposed to 'we are who we are'.

Fourthly, he did make a decent point about the compression of matches not giving him and his staff much time between games right now to work on things.

Finally, it reinforced my overriding thought that support of Thomas Frank should be there as long as he is our manager, yet questions need to be asked. And the main one (again IMO) is IF you believe he deserves time, then you must be aligned to his vision. And that vision looks to me to be creating a better version of the type of football he is having us play now. My personal dilemma remains the fact that I do not like or enjoy said-style, and I also do not believe he can 'upscale' to the levels I believe a Spurs manager should look to be at.
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Very much agree with your last paragraph in particular. And I think I’d be even more bullish on him if he was articulating a vision with greater clarity, so we knew what we were building towards. Otherwise, it kind of is what it is. In possession he talks about crosses. And he talks a lot about being solid as a foundation. The ‘if you don’t take a risk you take a risk’ should be one of those things that excites the fanbase. But because of everything else he says and everything else we’ve seen so far (which whether well executed or not, lines up with what he has said) it feels less than convincing.

I want it to work, he is a good man. I think I’m just a bit annoyed at having a transitional season to get to something that is at best unclear and at worst is ineffective when expected to have most of the possession.
 
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