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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Brighton & Hove Albion FC ***

Silly McSilly Face said:
Anyone? What about Wilson Odobert?
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I like Odobert I wish he was more ready, but he feels like the young guy who should be coming on and developing behind a first teamer. Tbh all of the proper options on the left feel like they are either the development option or the squad depth guy rather than the actual starter. That's what we are missing and why it's seems so janky on that side.
 
thfcsteff said:
He will not make it with us. I'd be happy to offload him in January as long as we upgrade significantly. He's a decent mid-league player (I think somewhere like Brentford he'd do OK) but he is not the required standard for me if we want to push on.
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I don't disagree i was just having a laugh at a post saying "anyone will do" in terms of playing left wing :)
 
Bishop said:
I like Odobert I wish he was more ready, but he feels like the young guy who should be coming on and developing behind a first teamer. Tbh all of the proper options on the left feel like they are either the development option or the squad depth guy rather than the actual starter. That's what we are missing and why it's seems so janky on that side.
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I actually don't like odobert. I was just having a laugh in respect of the suggestion that "anyone would do" at left wing....
 
I loved watching Simons out there in the 10 role - you really get to see how much we've missed a player like that (Maddison on a good day makes all the difference, of course). Getting into tiny pockets to receive, quickly turns, flicks people through, finds the right and smart pass just a split second before the defender does, pop up at the right place for a shot. He was excellent. Should've had at least a goal, but his finishing lacked a bit of fine tuning. Anyways, a proper Tottenham-player if ever I saw one. Really excited to see him in that role going forward.
 
Bishop said:
I like Odobert I wish he was more ready, but he feels like the young guy who should be coming on and developing behind a first teamer. Tbh all of the proper options on the left feel like they are either the development option or the squad depth guy rather than the actual starter. That's what we are missing and why it's seems so janky on that side.
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I think your appraisal is a lot fairer and more balanced than mine. Having said that, if we could get a Semanyo or someone like that, I'd move him on!
 
I think with Odobert it might be that he’s quite good at a version of the role Grealish was forced to play at City, the ball retainer.

It doesn’t look like he is excellent at beating his man one v one, although he might be ok at it, and he isn’t going to be a Brennan style poacher. But I think what he is, is someone who can probably make the right touch and pass at the right time to release others, and still be something of a threat with his pace to stretch the opposition. I think Udogie was amazing today, and deserves all of the play, but I think Odobert was doing well by releasing him. Doing the simple things and enabling someone else to shine, and there may be a role for that with us. Especially if he can be excellent defensively and maintain high concentration on that front too.

I might be wrong on Odobert, but I hasn’t seen us penetrate as much down the left in previous games - although I do appreciate we were playing two right footers there.

Either way, the idea that Tel and Odobert are championship players is mad to me. There’s clearly a gap between them and Kudus on the other side, but I think they are absolute prem quality with potential. It’s up to them to step up and take the opportunities.
 
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SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I think with Odobert it might be that he’s quite good at a version of the role Grealish was forced to play at City, the ball retainer.

It doesn’t look like he is excellent at beating his man one v one, although he might be ok at it, and he isn’t going to be a Brennan style poacher. But I think what he is, is someone who can probably make the right touch and pass at the right time to release others, and still be something of a threat with his pace to stretch the opposition. I think Udogie was amazing today, and deserves all of the praise, but j think Odobert was doing well by releasing him. Doing the simple things and enabling someone else to shine, and there may be a role for that with us. Especially if he can be excellent defensively and maintain high concentration on that front too.

I might be wrong on Odobert, but I hasn’t seen us penetrate as much down the left in previous games - although I do appreciate we were playing two right footers there.

Either way, the idea that Tel and Odobert are championship players is mad to me. There’s clearly a gap between them and Kudus on the other side, but I think they are absolute prem quality with potential. It’s up to them to step up and take the opportunities.
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I think that all starts with Udogie TBH, albeit I agree that despite my gut feeling it is unfair to write him off right now, as he might well find a purple patch and soar.
 
Moore is not as good as Odobert. We forget that Odobert is still yet to have a consistent run in the team. He will come good. I have seen Moore in Scotland. Odobert will eat that league alive. I also have hopes on Moore improving out on loan. I suspect the club wants to see if he will be the next world class product.

Glad I stepped out else the ref would have tinkled me off. Spurs need to start complaining about these refereeing performances a la Ange days. Teams are resorting to fouling in the name of pressing. I have no problem with that except there is no consistency by the ref. I do hope there is a post game review for the ref where these things are pointed out. I can imagine as a manager being irritated enough to do a post game video collage of such moments and send to the refs and EPL.

VAR is a tool. The tool can never be the problem. The problem are the people using or misusing the tool.

Result wise - I am not sure. I think Brighton were fortunate. I still don't agree with the ruling on their first goal. Good that we were able to nick a point though.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I think with Odobert it might be that he’s quite good at a version of the role Grealish was forced to play at City, the ball retainer.

It doesn’t look like he is excellent at beating his man one v one, although he might be ok at it, and he isn’t going to be a Brennan style poacher. But I think what he is, is someone who can probably make the right touch and pass at the right time to release others, and still be something of a threat with his pace to stretch the opposition. I think Udogie was amazing today, and deserves all of the play, but I think Odobert was doing well by releasing him. Doing the simple things and enabling someone else to shine, and there may be a role for that with us. Especially if he can be excellent defensively and maintain high concentration on that front too.

I might be wrong on Odobert, but I hasn’t seen us penetrate as much down the left in previous games - although I do appreciate we were playing two right footers there.

Either way, the idea that Tel and Odobert are championship players is mad to me. There’s clearly a gap between them and Kudus on the other side, but I think they are absolute prem quality with potential. It’s up to them to step up and take the opportunities.
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While i think it is unfair to label them championship players, as you say there is a gap in quality there right now compared to other players. That is a problem as there is no such obvious gap for me when Bergvall and Gray play. They just come in and look like they belong or even improve the performance of the team. So while i am all for "they're young, they need time" at the same time we are not a kindergarten and at this level you need to start producing otherwise they will be loaned out and/or sold on.

The fact that the club are clearly looking at strengthening that side and up top, bringing in Muani and trying for Savinho shows that i think there are serious doubts internally about their ability to step up with the required quality any time soon.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I think with Odobert it might be that he’s quite good at a version of the role Grealish was forced to play at City, the ball retainer.

It doesn’t look like he is excellent at beating his man one v one, although he might be ok at it, and he isn’t going to be a Brennan style poacher. But I think what he is, is someone who can probably make the right touch and pass at the right time to release others, and still be something of a threat with his pace to stretch the opposition. I think Udogie was amazing today, and deserves all of the play, but I think Odobert was doing well by releasing him. Doing the simple things and enabling someone else to shine, and there may be a role for that with us. Especially if he can be excellent defensively and maintain high concentration on that front too.

I might be wrong on Odobert, but I hasn’t seen us penetrate as much down the left in previous games - although I do appreciate we were playing two right footers there.

Either way, the idea that Tel and Odobert are championship players is mad to me. There’s clearly a gap between them and Kudus on the other side, but I think they are absolute prem quality with potential. It’s up to them to step up and take the opportunities.
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Odobert was ok, in retrospect he contributed to the shape that allowed us to largely control the game so even if just for that reason he's probably earned the next start because our shape was so much more balanced today. He was also obviously involved in the first goal and if he was a bit more decisive at times yesterday he could have maybe gotten a couple of assists. He was miles ahead of Johnson when he came on. It's not a stellar set of options but if them I'd still think Odobert is the best if the bunch or at least he offers better shape imo.
 
afsoc4life said:
Moore is not as good as Odobert. We forget that Odobert is still yet to have a consistent run in the team. He will come good. I have seen Moore in Scotland. Odobert will eat that league alive. I also have hopes on Moore improving out on loan. I suspect the club wants to see if he will be the next world class product.

Glad I stepped out else the ref would have tinkled me off. Spurs need to start complaining about these refereeing performances a la Ange days. Teams are resorting to fouling in the name of pressing. I have no problem with that except there is no consistency by the ref. I do hope there is a post game review for the ref where these things are pointed out. I can imagine as a manager being irritated enough to do a post game video collage of such moments and send to the refs and EPL.

VAR is a tool. The tool can never be the problem. The problem are the people using or misusing the tool.

Result wise - I am not sure. I think Brighton were fortunate. I still don't agree with the ruling on their first goal. Good that we were able to nick a point though.
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From what I see nowadays, I think I'd be demanding a face to face meeting with Howard Webb every single week if I were PL clubs. The standard of refereeing is appalling. There is no concept anymore of following the actual laws of the game. Therefore the entire system breaks.

What is needed is a new KPI. If I were Spurs I would hire a referee/analyst and their pure job would be to measure the referee's performance against the laws of the game. They would watch that entire game back and analyse every moment in the 90. The denominator would be how many decisions should have been made in the 90 mins based on the pure laws. The numerator would be how many of them the referee (with assistance) got right. I would then publish that metric every single week.

I doubt the refs would even break through 70% based on what I see today.

When refereeing improves, the quality of the games will improve. It's that simple.
 
Muttley said:
From what I see nowadays, I think I'd be demanding a face to face meeting with Howard Webb every single week if I were PL clubs. The standard of refereeing is appalling. There is no concept anymore of following the actual laws of the game. Therefore the entire system breaks.

What is needed is a new KPI. If I were Spurs I would hire a referee/analyst and their pure job would be to measure the referee's performance against the laws of the game. They would watch that entire game back and analyse every moment in the 90. The denominator would be how many decisions should have been made in the 90 mins based on the pure laws. The numerator would be how many of them the referee (with assistance) got right. I would then publish that metric every single week.

I doubt the refs would even break through 70% based on what I see today.

When refereeing improves, the quality of the games will improve. It's that simple.
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Thing is the refs are only human and things happen at 100 mph and they only have the benefit of seeing it at ground level from the angle they are looking at. So this comes down to VAR and how it is deployed. Right now its deployed in terms of "clear and obvious error" i.e. only the most blatant stuff gets overrruled. What you're saying is that VAR should have a role in ensuring rules are applied consistently according to what has actually happened rather than the ref's ground level interpretation of what has happened based on his view of the incident in real time. That would obviously require a complete revamp of the purpose of VAR.
 
thfcsteff said:
He will not make it with us. I'd be happy to offload him in January as long as we upgrade significantly. He's a decent mid-league player (I think somewhere like Brentford he'd do OK) but he is not the required standard for me if we want to push on.
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Just turned 21?
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Thing is the refs are only human and things happen at 100 mph and they only have the benefit of seeing it at ground level from the angle they are looking at. So this comes down to VAR and how it is deployed. Right now its deployed in terms of "clear and obvious error" i.e. only the most blatant stuff gets overrruled. What you're saying is that VAR should have a role in ensuring rules are applied consistently according to what has actually happened rather than the ref's ground level interpretation of what has happened based on his view of the incident in real time. That would obviously require a complete revamp of the purpose of VAR.
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The way Kudus was pulled up for the lightest of touches in the back - when through on goal - and moments later Odobert was barged over with full force and no foul leading to their goal.

We don’t dramatise fouls as well as other sides - see Udogie who took a high kick and didn’t fall to the ground. Verses us almost scoring in the box and their defender feigning a head injury and getting a fk for a high challenge.

Then Bergval not popping the ball out when Rici was lying on the turf with no out ball. We are still a bit naive and these key moments counted against us yesterday.
 
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