Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[Gazza]

haha

for all the reasons we have discussed thus far mate - i think his effectiveness as a manager is on the wane and the cups at United masked over some pretty big cracks in his approach/style/whatever you want to call it and i don't think he has shown anything in the time he has been here to suggest he has much left to offer at the top level.

you can say you think he's going to win trophies here because he wins trophies and that's what he does but that logic just doesn't do it for me - I judge managers on what they do here under our circumstances, not what they've done elsewhere.

I hope that he can paper over the cracks at Spurs like he did at United, and then actually get time to build on his success. If he achieves and delivers cups and 4th will you be happy to say Mourinho is a master of his profession? Not that he needs your approval. I think its so easy to take shots at him without acknowledging his actual greatness as a manager. More players will agree with me than yourself, not that it means much.

You are right history is no indicator for future success, but he does have a winning formula that cannot be denied, yeah I'm game to see the length of its course even if it ends in failure eventually ... as is the case with all managers.

But until that time, I'm interested to see how Mourinho works his magic and delivers.

 

[parklane1]

This exactly.

The club needs top 4 & the club needs trophies for several reasons (it's the goal of the club eventually, it's a validation of the decades of work Levy has been striving to, it helps with attracting/keeping players and also importantly it kills another tired media narrative)

Jose can deliver both of those things this season still, when he is no longer in a position to do so or if this run goes really bad, I trust Levy will make a decision and find an appropriate replacement who will also have an opportunity to go after those same goals.

The question I'd ask the people who want Jose gone is .. if it was any other manager but Jose, in the position we are in now (cup final, in all cups and 4 points off CL place), would anyone really be asking to have them removed?

I think we know what the answer would be from some.

 

[billyiddo]

The question I'd ask the people who want Jose gone is .. if it was any other manager but Jose, in the position we are in now (cup final, in all cups and 4 points off CL place), would anyone really be asking to have them removed?

we can go round in circles all day with that logic - both sides of the fence will be influenced by what came before, pointless to pretend otherwise. I was looking forward to seeing the new man/philoshophy that was spoken of when he joined - im sure we can all agree that was a load of waffle regardless of whether you back him or not at this stage?

That was a big selling point for a lot of people, the new philosophy, because lets face it no one wants the Mourinho that bombed out of Chelsea and United with his tail between his legs - so when things here conform to that impression over a long period people will rightly question where it's heading, especially now it is obvious we were sold a lie.

 

[Raziel]

we can go round in circles all day with that logic - both sides of the fence will be influenced by what came before, pointless to pretend otherwise. I was looking forward to seeing the new man/philoshophy that was spoken of when he joined - im sure we can all agree that was a load of waffle regardless of whether you back him or not at this stage?

That was a big selling point for a lot of people, the new philosophy, because lets face it no one wants the Mourinho that bombed out of Chelsea and United with his tail between his legs - so when things here conform to that impression over a long period people will rightly question where it's heading.

We could, but I was never looking for the "new Jose"

The Jose that according to you left Chelsea and United with his tail between his legs delivered
- League Cup and Premier League with Chelsea
- League Cup and Europa with United (he and LVG are the only ones post SAF to deliver anything with United)

Honestly, I'd take either of those levels of failure ..

 

[Baleforce]

I want the brickhousery too to be honest.

 

[billyiddo]

We could, but I was never looking for the "new Jose"

The Jose that according to you left Chelsea and United with his tail between his legs delivered
- League Cup and Premier League with Chelsea
- League Cup and Europa with United (he and LVG are the only ones post SAF to deliver anything with United)

Honestly, I'd take either of those levels of failure ..

we all know what he won, but they are achievements and not something that you take from job to job - your personality/style of play and all that other stuff is what goes with you and is what people have a problem with.

 

[JerusalemMan]

we all know hat he won mate but they are achievements and not something that you take from job to job - your personality/style of play and all that other stuff is what goes with you and what people have a problem with.

Your history and achievements form part of your record which is a part of what people look at.
The awful "show us yer medals" thing.

 

[billyiddo]

Your history and achievements form part of your record which is a part of what people look at.
The awful "show us yer medals" thing.

Past success is not a transferable attribute, it gives you a foot in the door and it might buy you extra time when things go wrong but once in the new job it's what you do when you are there that matters.

All the great managers eventually reach a point where the game passes them by and despite winning trophies at United he has looked like he has reached that point - i mean there's a reason why he is managing us and not at an elite club and it's because he is on a mission to repair his image/reputation - fail here and he's looking at China or International football.

 

[Gazza]

we all know what he won, but they are achievements and not something that you take from job to job - your personality/style of play and all that other stuff is what goes with you and is what people have a problem with.

So why even try to say that Jose left those previous roles with his tail between his legs if history has nothing to with it.

I dont think people actually have a problem with his personality and can see what he is trying to do. Further to this his current standing, he is doing well don't you think looking at the facts.

The facts being:
We are in a cup final.
We are still in the FA Cup
We are in the knockout stages of the Europa Cup
We are only 4, yes four points behind Liverpool in 4th despite this dramatic dip in form ...

So much drama and knit picking its borderline teenage tantrums.

If this was not mourinho and some other manager then you wouldn't talk about him or about his history when it is convenient to support your case against mourinho ...

GHod help me if I ever go to court and you are on the bench, I'd be guilty before opening my mouth.

 

[Gazza]

record - as in a record of what you have done previously. All the great managers eventually reach a point where the game passes them by and despite winning trophies at United he has looked like he has reached that point - i mean there's a reason why he is managing us and not at an elite club and it's because he is on a mission to repair his image/reputation - fail here and he's looking at China or International football.

Yes that reason is that the real Madrid job was occupied as were the elite clubs around Europe and England, of which I suppose he wouldn't have gone back to united, leaving us.

Honestly it's that obvious.

How do you know about failing here and what's install for him as manager in the future, you don't even like talking about history unless it suites you, yet you want to talk about future ...

There is a reason Mourinho has managed elite clubs, you will never get it.

 

[Pirate55]

I definitely don't think it's Mourinho and Mourinho alone. If he fails we get someone else in and I'm assuming Levy will make reasonable decision at least. Many of the names mentioned seem exciting to me, though I don't currently have a favourite.

What I don't understand is at least what I perceive as an opinion that Mourinho will fail and that we might as well just get rid of him now. We definitely regressed in the games prior to the WBA game and if that form continues we'll be in a real downwards spiral that will be difficult to break. For now I'm thinking that Mourinho should be given the chance to turn things around.

I think whatever we think, Levy will give Mourinho till the end of the season at the very least. People seem to forget that when he arrived he got us playing football, scoring goals for fun and went on a run which lifted us from 14th to the cusp of top four. The Chelsea game where Son got sent off, quickly followed by injuries to Kane and Son effectively derailed our season. This season he got us to TOP ( let that sink in for a minute) something I don't think Poch ever achieved - even with a much better team!!!!

 

[billyiddo]

Yes that reason is that the real Madrid job was occupied as were the elite clubs around Europe and England, of which I suppose he wouldn't have gone back to united, leaving us.

Honestly it's that obvious.

How do you know about failing here and what's install for him as manager in the future, you don't even like talking about history unless it suites you, yet you want to talk about future ...

There is a reason Mourinho has managed elite clubs, you will never get it.

Mourinho at his peak was one of the best managers in the game, one of the best managers of all time, that's why he managed the likes of Real Madrid - i understand perfectly well.

What you don't seem to get is that managers aren't at their peak forever and i think that Mourinho is well past his, sorry that upsets you so much.

 

[Gazza]

Mourinho at his peak was one of the best managers in the game, one of the best managers of all time, that's why he managed the likes of Real Madrid - i understand perfectly well.

What you don't seem to get is that managers aren't at their peak forever and i think that Mourinho is well past his, sorry that upsets you so much.

Doesn't upset me at all. I'm quite happy with Mourinho and what he is currently achieving, that's why I'm not the one who is upset.

But when facts are facts and opinions are based on nothing but feelings it all gets a bit silly.

Like I said I'm looking at it objectively and so is Levy, it may change at the end of the season but that's where we are at the moment.

 

[LincsSpur]

Mourinho at his peak was one of the best managers in the game, one of the best managers of all time, that's why he managed the likes of Real Madrid - i understand perfectly well.

What you don't seem to get is that managers aren't at their peak forever and i think that Mourinho is well past his, sorry that upsets you so much.

And why was he “one of the best managers in the game”?

Because he won a lot of trophies

Had he not won all of those trophies would he have still been considered “one of the best in the game “?

No he wouldn’t

And that’s all I was saying about Poch before

Im not sure I understand your comment that managers aren’t at their peak forever in relation to Jose

You seem to be saying that he’s past it but we’re still in the FA Cup, in the league cup final, still in the Europa and four points off fourth place and not long ago we were TOP

So why not judge him at the end of the season?

Some of his subs and team set ups baffle and annoy me but way too early to judge

 

[billyiddo]

So why not judge him at the end of the season?

Some of his subs and team set ups baffle and annoy me but way too early to judge

if i only cared about results id check the scores and look a the table at the end of the season and not waste hours of my time talking about what's going on with Spurs online with strangers....

15-16 months in to a managers time is not too early by any standard. AVB lasted no longer (despite having more points on the board than Jose) and Juande Ramos had much less time despite winning a trophy.

Doesn't upset me at all. I'm quite happy with Mourinho and what he is currently achieving, that's why I'm not the one who is upset.

But when facts are facts and opinions are based on nothing but feelings it all gets a bit silly.

Like I said I'm looking at it objectively and so is Levy, it may change at the end of the season but that's where we are at the moment.

objectively speaking our form atm is unsustainable and that is the only reason why talk has ramped up about bringing forward any decision from the summer. Talk prior to this run was only ever regarding being unhappy with performances/nothing to do with changing managers. Surely you can concede that an extended run of less than 1ppg will make the decision for us?

fwiw the City game will be as useful an idicator as to where we are heading as the West Brom game was, ie not very. Everton and West Ham games are two that he needs to get results in to show this run of bad form can be moved on from.

 

[Gazza]

if i only cared about results id check the scores and look a the table at the end of the season and not waste hours of my time talking about what's going on with Spurs online with strangers....

15-16 months in to a managers time is not too early by any standard. AVB lasted no longer (despite having more points on the board than Jose) and Juande Ramos had much less time despite winning a trophy.



objectively speaking our form atm is unsustainable and that is the only reason why talk has ramped up about bringing forward any decision from the summer.

fwiw the City game will be as useful an idicator as to where we are heading as the West Brom game was, ie not very. Everton and West Ham games are two that he needs to get results in to show this run of bad form can be moved on from.

Why who said any of that? Or is that just your personal self gratification yard stick?

Talk has not really ramped up I think if you trawl through this thread it's mostly you just ramping it up per se.

I agree the form from the team needs improving fast but to call Mourinho to get the sack at this stage of this weird season is plain stupidity. He has to at a minimum have a chance at the cup final.

 

[StephenH]

fwiw the City game will be as useful an idicator as to where we are heading as the West Brom game was, ie not very. Everton and West Ham games are two that he needs to get results in to show this run of bad form can be moved on from.

These are my thoughts also.
Proper matches!

 

[Pirate55]

fwiw the City game will be as useful an idicator as to where we are heading

Iirc Mourinho has beaten Emirates Marketing Project twice while at Spurs. Or doesn't that count in your selectivity?

 

[parklane1]

The barricades are drawn between those that dislike Jose and what he stands for and never wanted him here in the first place ( and its obvious to see that those who never wanted him are rubbing their hands in glee over the last couple of games). The other side of the fence are those who can see that he has been a very good manager( which his trophy haul shows) and are willing to give him time to rebuild a team that was finished as a force and to rebuild a new one.

Now if that rebuild was not hard enough he has had to deal with the Covid effect and the amount of new players he is trying to get fit and intergrate into the team. I think its fair before any decision is made he should get at least to the end of the season to see what happens and then see how we stand.

I get that Jose is not every fans cup of tea but some of the witch hunt by som e fans is over the top and is showing their personal dislike of the manger rather then the situation of the team at this time. A cup final, still in Europe, still in the FA Cup and despite what some are say we are still in with a chance of the top four. Now i am not saying we will win any of those things but he deserves a chance to see if he can help us do that.

 

[billyiddo]

Why who said any of that? Or is that just your personal self gratification yard stick?

Talk has not really ramped up I think if you trawl through this thread it's mostly you just ramping it up per se.

I agree the form from the team needs improving fast but to call Mourinho to get the sack at this stage of this weird season is plain stupidity. He has to at a minimum have a chance at the cup final.

you responded talking about objective measures and facts being used instead of subjective feelings - i just pointed out that objectively 1 point per game is poor form and the type of form that would cause Levy to act if not addressed. do you disagree? do you think that type of form can or should be allowed to run unchecked? where would you draw the line?

im talking with regards to mine and yours clashes on the subject over the last few weeks *- it's only the extended run of bad form that has made changing managers a discussion point, prior to that the opinion was simply that i didn't think the performances were sustainable (which proved to be right) and wanted him to find a better balance between defense and attack.

*though i do find it strange you think im a minority on this, im a ST holder for 20+ years home & away and the majority of people i know from over Spurs are pretty vocal on SM lately about the situation.

Iirc Mourinho has beaten Emirates Marketing Project twice while at Spurs. Or doesn't that count in your selectivity?

sorry i don't understand your point? i was giving him a free pass v City because they are currently smashing it and it would be unfair to judge him in the midst of poor form on such a fixture