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*** Tottenham Hotspur - Arsenal OMT ***

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by Jordinho, 30 Aug 2013.

  1. a spur from swansea

    a spur from swansea Naybet

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    if you play football your told to use the edge of the box as the line,dawson dropped back a yard or so on that line ,if vertonghen saw a striker pass him by he should have gone with Walcott,you just don't presume everyone is in line with you.
     
  2. Yiddo

    Yiddo Steffen Iversen

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    You use that line when you are 10, not professional footballers.
     
  3. Hootnow

    Hootnow Jermaine Jenas

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    He's a professional footballer who's playing at the highest level, not playing under-16s football. He dropped back a yard because he was watching Giroud, rather than being aware of what the rest of the defenders were doing. By doing so, he played Walcott and Giroud onside, when the rest of the defence were keeping their line and playing them offside.

    If you're going to break the line to follow a player, you better then make sure you don't lose that player. Having followed Giroud, he then lost Giroud.

    [video=youtube;rP6kEkyk8d8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6kEkyk8d8[/video]
     
    chancer likes this.
  4. a spur from swansea

    a spur from swansea Naybet

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    ........so you drop back on top of lloris then........do you play football??........i mean proper football not xbox....
     
  5. LemonadeMoney

    LemonadeMoney Les Ferdinand

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    Not sure if this has been posted yet? http://www.zonalmarking.net/2013/09/01/arsenal-1-0-tottenham-cazorla-provides-the-overloads-in-midfield-and-the-through-balls-for-giroud-and-walcott/ Click for charts

    Arsenal 1-0 Tottenham: Cazorla provides the overloads in midfield, and the through-balls for Giroud and Walcott
    September 1, 2013


    Cazorla's drifts inside create a 4 v 3 in midfield, which allowed Cazorla freedom to play through-balls to Walcott and Giroud. Lloris swept up. The danger for Arsenal was down their left, where Walker and Townsend were given space to attack Gibbs.
    (First things first: all the other big games (Bayern v Chelsea, Man Utd v Chelsea, Man Utd v Liverpool, Barca v Valencia, Barca v Atletico etc) will be included in the ‘new managers’ series which will start this next week. And will hopefully be worth the wait. If that excludes some teams in those match-ups, apologies – but that just means they have been covered last season under their current manager…)

    Arsenal recorded a narrow victory in the north London derby.

    Arsene Wenger was still without Mikel Arteta, Lukas Podolski is a new injury blow, while Bacary Sagna was unwell so Carl Jenkinson played at right-back.

    Andre Villas-Boas was without Gareth Bale ahead of his departure to Real Madrid, while Erik Lamela was only just signed in time and was on the bench, while Christian Eriksen wasn’t yet under consideration.

    In terms of tactical analysis, this was a remarkably simple game based entire around two concepts (and how those two concepts worked together).

    The key issue #1: Cazorla inside

    The first obvious feature was Santi Cazorla’s positioning. Whereas Arsenal are direct on both flanks when Lukas Podolski and Theo Walcott are both in the side, the shape changes when Cazorla plays on one side. Regardless of which flank he’s deployed on, he drifts inside into central positions and helps caused an overload in the central midfield zone.

    This was particularly important for Arsenal against Spurs today – the midfield trio of Mousa Dembele, Paulinho and Etienne Capoue offered great strength, and there was a risk Arsenal would be overpowered if they went up against them three-against-three. Instead, Arsenal had to add to their numbers in the centre of the pitch.

    Essentially, Cazorla became a fourth central midfielder. Spurs’ attitude in the opening minutes suggested they were going to press in the middle – Dembele on Jack Wheelchair, Paulinho on Aaron Ramsey and Capoue sitting deeper on Tomas Rosicky. Cazorla’s central presence disrupted that strategy, and while Arsenal didn’t dominate possession to the extent you might expect, they enjoyed more of the ball in advanced positions.

    There was, of course, a risk by using Cazorla so narrow – it meant Kieran Gibbs was often exposed to the runs of Andros Townsend and Kyle Walker, and forced to deal with two-against-one situations down that side. Townsend was Spurs’ most promising attacking player with his direct dribbling and long-range shooting, and Walker’s overlaps meant Townsend often had space to turn inside onto his stronger left foot. Overall, however, Gibbs coped well – and as the match went on, Cazorla offered more assistance.

    The average position diagram (from WhoScored) shows Cazorla (19) extremely narrow, and Walcott (14) essentially as a forward.



    The key issue #2: Spurs’ defensive line and Arsenal running in behind

    The previous meeting between these sides, a 2-1 Spurs win at White Hart Lane in March, was almost entirely based around two high defensive lines, and both sides breaking in behind. Here, only Arsenal managed to successfully breach the opposition’s defence in this manner.

    Spurs had neither of the duo who scored in that game (Bale or Aaron Lennon) and while centre-forward Roberto Soldado is good at playing on the shoulder, the midfield trio didn’t offer the creativity to find him.

    At the other end, Spurs continued to play high up the pitch – which caused them problems with both Theo Walcott and Olivier Giroud. Walcott is extremely quick, of course, and Danny Rose was unable to track all his runs made from the right-hand channel, while Giroud is much slower but was up against a particularly sluggish centre-back in Michael Dawson. There was also confusion between Dawson and Jan Vertonghen about the defensive line a couple of times, most obviously for the goal.

    The result: constant Arsenal chances

    Six separate Arsenal chances (or near-chances) came in similar circumstances – usually with Cazorla coming inside, then playing a through-ball to Giroud or Walcott.

    7 minutes: Cazorla, despite starting from the left, finds himself as the fourth central midfielder in a right-of-centre position. He hits a huge long ball over the top of the defence for Giroud – who surprisingly attempts to head. His weak attempt barely forces a save from Hugo Lloris, but it’s a warning sign for Spurs.

    23 minutes: Cazorla is again in central midfield – this time in an extremely deep position in front of the Arsenal defence. He doesn’t provide the through-ball for the goal, but plays an earlier vertical pass, cutting through the Spurs midfield and finding Ramsey. Then, after a Rosicky pass, both Walcott and Giroud are allowed to break in behind the Spurs defence because Dawson is deeper than Vertonghen, playing them onside. Walcott squares the ball for Giroud, who makes his usual near-post run and finishes with the outside of his left foot.

    33 minutes: Again, Cazorla drifts inside from the left, exchanges passes with Rosicky before passing towards Walcott’s usual out-to-in run. This time, Hugo Lloris dashes forward to sweep up, tackling Walcott outside the box to clear the danger.

    62 minutes: Cazorla’s in a central midfield position, looks up to find the Spurs defence out of shape again, with both Walcott and Giroud running towards goal. He attempts a through-ball, but Dawson makes a crucial interception as the last defender.

    64 minutes: Cazorla starts the move inside Arsenal’s half, then finds himself in the ‘number ten’ position yet again, with two runners ahead – Walcott on the right, Giroud in the inside-left position. Walcott makes a run inside to create space for Giroud, who receives the pass before forcing a decent save from Lloris, low to his right.

    70 minutes: The one key Arsenal move that didn’t feature Cazorla – Rosicky wins the ball high up, leaving Giroud free to break towards goal – but his pass to Walcott is overhit, and Lloris again sweeps up.

    Cazorla’s passes received from FourFourTwo StatsZone



    And Cazorla’s passes played from FourFourTwo StatsZone



    Other issues:

    - Spurs offered Soldado extremely little support, both in terms of incisive passes towards him, and getting midfield runners up and around him. It’s arguable that Spurs aren’t accustomed to having to provide great creativity given their reliance upon Bale’s dribbling and long-distance shooting last season – although the impact of Lamela and Eriksen should be considerable, and means analysing Spurs’ performance here might be futile given the imminent introduction of two outstanding attacking midfielders.

    - Arsenal had the upper hand from the starting XIs, but the difference in quality on the bench was huge, and underlines Arsenal’s need to strengthen tomorrow.

    - It was somewhat surprising Villas-Boas didn’t choose to field both Sandro and Capoue, his two solid holding midfielders. Yes, today’s line-up will presumably be the standard format of the side, with Dembele shuttling forward into attack – but the Belgian hasn’t started the season well, and if there’s ever an obvious time for a more secure midfield, it’s away at Arsenal, especially with them using Cazorla as an extra midfield creator.

    - Mathieu Flamini had a positive impact as a substitute for Jack Wheelchair, and although he’s not the high-profile signing many Arsenal fans expected, in a way he’s exactly what they need. The rumoured move for Luiz Gustavo, for example, never really made sense because Arsenal don’t need a first-choice holding midfielder – in the vast majority of games, Mikel Arteta plays that role well, with Ramsey or Wheelchair alongside him. What Arsenal need is a more combative, defensive option in their squad, to play in conjunction with (or as a replacement for an injured) Arteta. In that sense, as a free signing, Flamini is a decent choice.

    - It was partly because they didn’t have great options from the bench, but Arsenal ended up with six defenders on the field – Bacary Sagna and Nacho Monreal were introduced late on to strengthen the flanks, not the type of double substitution Wenger often makes.

    Position graphic from WhoScored

    Chalkboards courtesy of StatsZone
     
  6. Bullet

    Bullet Steffen Freund

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    Thanks for posting that video Hootnow; you could read it either way

    I feel Rose should have let Capoue go to the ball, so he could track Walcott and snub out the threat - I don't see how Vertonghen can play offside when there is zero pressure on the ball and Walcott was running behind Rose
     
  7. ringo

    ringo Tim Sherwood

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    We don't know who was at fault for sure (other than Rose, and Dawson at the point of tackle) because we don't know who was meant to be calling, or the way the team runs the line.

    The whole thing was a study in poor defending though.

    Dawson follows Giroud in, when he could have stepped up. The only reason I can think, apart from poor football, is that he didn't know where Walker was. But really he should have always been aware of Walker's position, and then stayed level with Vertonghen.

    Walker should have let Dawson know he could let Giroud go. Plus Walker hasn't got a man to mark and should have come narrower, could have obstructed Giroud's run, and doesn't let Dawson know Giroud is coming across him.

    Vertonghen looks like he is calling the line at one point when he has no idea what is going on behind him. He also lets Walcott run in behind Rose and then back out again, when he could have tracked him out given that Giroud was the only other Arsenal player in the box.

    Rose let Walcott run inside him (which he did all afternoon -he continually left a huge gap between himself and the CB.), didn't visually check his run, or bother to pick him up again.

    And finally Dawson is too busy ball watching (as are the rest of the defence) to pick up Giroud's run. Even then if he had taken a step towards the near post and his own goal, instead of towards the ball while trying to wrestle Giroud, he might still have got a foot to it, although it was probably too late.

    But all round poor defending really. which when you add that to the lack of creativity at the other end and the inability to break at pace, is quite depressing.

    I think Rose will be pinpointed by other teams and cost us goals this season. Bring back Benny......
     
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  8. braineclipse

    braineclipse Gary Stevens

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    I agree that Rose should have let Capoue do the pressing, although I think you could say that Capoue was a little slow at getting up there. Perhaps a situation where the two aren't used to playing together and weren't sure what the other was doing.

    Rose did push up though, and Vertonghen was looking across at Walcott looking at him being "offside", as in behind Capoue and Rose. To me at least not playing offside when there's no pressure on the man on the ball is more about situations where the defenders choose to either follow a runner or step up when the run is coming from an onside positions. When the player is actually already in behind then doing what Vertonghen is doing makes sense to me.

    I do wonder if this debate would be happening if it was Walker who had been playing Walcott onside instead of Dawson. It seems generally accepted that Walker is poor positionally, so I think it would just be accepted that this was his fault.
     
  9. braineclipse

    braineclipse Gary Stevens

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    Said this in another thread as well, it was pointed out on Norwegian telly after the game yesterday.

    It has to be Vertonghen calling the line there. He's facing play as it's coming down the left hand side. How is Vertonghen supposed to orient himself both towards the ball and towards Dawson calling the line? Doesn't make any sense to say that Dawson should be calling the line there as far as I can see.
     
  10. Hootnow

    Hootnow Jermaine Jenas

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    Oh don't get me wrong, Rose has also had a bit of a shocker imo. HE seemed to be stuck in two minds about whether to pressure Rosicky? or follow Walcott. In the end, he did neither and Rosicky was able to play his pass without pressure and Walcott was able to make his run unobstructed.

    Defensively wasn't great all round tbh.
     
  11. ringo

    ringo Tim Sherwood

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    Often though when the line is called you can't see the player calling it as it is called. But then all the defenders should continually be monitoring each other's position, the ball, and the opposition. (It's not easy being a defender). What I don't get is why Dawson bothered to follow Giroud in when he was last man and could see the line in front of him anyway. Easier to step up at that point. I reckon it was just instinctive -it can be difficult to go against the natural impulse to track player back, and step in the opposite direction. But then they are professionals and should be doing that all the time in training.
     
  12. mudshark

    mudshark Mitchell Thomas

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    Dawson decides to follow Giroud, rather than playing offside, presumably because he is worried about Walcott running to the bye-line and cutting it back, in which case Giroud wouldn't have been offside wherever he or Vertonghen were standing. In doing so, though, he'd already played them on once, even if he couldn't necessarily have relied on the linesman seeing it, and, as Hootnow says, once he's decided to track Giroud, he can't allow him to be first to the ball like that. Whatever, though, it happens. They aren't robots.
     
  13. balesleftboot

    balesleftboot Jamie Redknapp

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    Definitely not going to knee jerk here. Compared to recent seasons when we went at them all guns blazing only to end up being embarrassed I thought we had good control of the game albeit with little threat in the final 3rd. Still with Eriksen and Lamela to come into the team i'm not worried about that.
     
  14. superfaisty

    superfaisty Nico Claesen

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    Got to say Rose was my main culprit- walnut gets a clear run at putting in a dangerous ball, daws tries to make the tackle but exceptional finish from giroud. Lloris shd be disappointed to be beaten at the near post like that too.
     
  15. Gilzeantoscore

    Gilzeantoscore Mitchell Thomas

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    What i took from the game. AVB has clearly set us up to be difficult to score against, but our midfield has little creativity or goal scoring threat in it. Dembele...what does he do? Hope the two new creative mids get off to a fast start, because the two forwards received zero service for the third straight game. Lloris one of the best keepers in the world at present. Everything about him reeks of class. He seems to be super confident in his own abilities too. I still don't rate either of our full backs. Benny please come back!
     
  16. chancer

    chancer Gudni Bergsson

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  17. ArnieArdiles

    ArnieArdiles Milenko Acimovic

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    I think so too. Yesterday we saw the Gooners beating us in a similar way to how we've beaten them in recent times . It's quite a simple tactic really . Go at the opponent from the off and hopefully get a goal up. After getting a goal up , you give up hunting the ball down in your opponents half . You then resort to defending your third in numbers and rely on swift counter attacking football . They're one of the best if not the best in the premeirship on the counter attack so in future, I feel we will need better than Dawson and also Rose in the left full-back position in order to play our pressing game against them.
     
  18. SteveAWOL

    SteveAWOL Andy Thompson

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    chancer likes this.
  19. diego_maradona

    diego_maradona Steffen Iversen Staff Member

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    One thing that seems to have eluded us all is Jordy has managed to hand us our first defeat and to our most bitter rivals too with this OMT...
     
  20. Hootnow

    Hootnow Jermaine Jenas

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    And no avatar change either. What a bastard.
     

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