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This is the START

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by Gutter Boy, 1 Mar 2015.

  1. metalgear

    metalgear Jack Jull

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    We put up a decent show but we were amateurish all round this time. Its clear we are ready to move up to the next step so the next 12 months it will be crucial for Poch to show that he can understand how to better manage competing in all competitions every year.
     
  2. metalgear

    metalgear Jack Jull

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    yeah but we're not in that bale situation where he could leave next week!
     
  3. metalgear

    metalgear Jack Jull

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    discussion point for next season's cup final thread :)
     
  4. Cochise

    Cochise Steve Carr

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    I don't think we have to worry about losing anyone except Lloris this summer. I honestly think Real will go for De Gea this summer and UTD will come to us with an offer for Lloris. At that stage it's really down to him, but I'd also expect Arsenal and Liverpool to come sniffing too. Levy probably won't do business with any of them, but the odds of him still being here next season are slim. Vertonghen could be on his way too, but I'm not sure if he will get that upwards move he craves. I think it's a year too early for people to throw money at us for Eriksen. His little down turn in form could make people think twice, but I don't think he will stick around past next year, if his current development continues.

    Obviously I'd like them all to stay, but I'm a realist.

    The other plus is that this summer Poch gets a proper pre season with the whole team and hopefully the players he wants in early enough. We may see him stick to the 4231 or we may see him try something different (the pre season just gone he tinkered with a 433 in the USA but it never worked as well as the 4231).
     
  5. Modric THFC

    Modric THFC Christian Ziege

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    There was no 433.
    Lewis Holtby tinkered with 433 when he was supposed to be playing as a number 10 and was send packing.
     
    metalgear likes this.
  6. Neymar

    Neymar Biggest Bozo 2015 Gooner WUM

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    Unfortunately I think Spurmac has hit the tickle my balls with a feather.

    Gutter Boy, you sound like Arsenal fans around 10 years ago. Cole, Clichy, Toure, Adebayor, RVP, Nasri, Faberge, Hleb, Henry etc were the type of players arsenal had back then. And they were constantly going on about how in 5 years time, these players would win them titles for many years to come. They were right in that those players would win titles, but just not with them. Arsenal didnt have the money to keep these players who had the potential of winning them titles. We are basically in the same scenario today.

    You're right in that we had "5 academy players, 6 English players and with an average age of 4-5 years younger than Chelsea" today, but lets not forget who we had before; Carrick, Bale, Modric, Berba. Put simply, if any of those young players that we had playing for us today became world class, we will lose them unless our financial potential changes.

    Today has got me really down. And has done nothing to change my cynical view of modern football; where everything is just about money.

    Lots of people have posted in this thread talking about how this could possibly be the start of "something new", and that poch has got something really good going on. I simply couldnt disagree more. We have been in our current situation for basically the the whole of the past decade. we are a team who are outside challengers for a top 4 spot. Literally thats its. I'm not saying that this isnt a worthy acheivement in itself, as most other clubs would love to be in this situation. but, any talk of us potentially being more is just nonesense, unless the financial landscape of the premier league changes. since the turn of the millenium, we've finished roughly 5-8th in the league. That coincides with the level of investment enic have put into our playing squad following their purchase of our club. the teams above us spend more than us generally, and the same applies to the teams below us. Basically, we need to find more money if we want to improve.

    Today, or the appointment of poch isnt the start of anything new or special. We, as fans have more demands of our team than enic can/are willing to finance. so i have no doubt poch's reign will end in tears just like all the other managers before him. As long as we dont get a new owner, this (where we are today) is all we'll ever be. Occasionally getting into the top 4, and going on cup runs every so often.

    I really felt that it would have been good for football, not just us, had we won today. unfortunately, chelsea got a number of lucky breaks, including getting the first goal, so it wasnt to be. And so now we have to listen to others go on about how mourinho got his tactics spot on, when in reality, he won because his team were luckier on the day and his squad is worth a million times more than ours. But what really hurts me is some of the crap being said about our players and manager by our own fans. Reading over the match thread is embarrassing. How some fans have the tenacity to question our players' work ethic or desire to win today is simply beyond belief. I have no doubt our players are hurting just as much as we are tonight. And to think of them as anything other than heros today is unnacceptable. They gave their all, it simply wasnt our day.
     
    Dr Rosenrosen likes this.
  7. diego_maradona

    diego_maradona Steffen Iversen Staff Member

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    Completely agree with the last paragraph but why so glum? It's always good for football when Chelsea lose. Look we can't change that but we need to look at the success stories where teams not funded my billionaires have managed to stay competitive. We have something resembling some sort of blueprint. We will find it difficult to attract top players and pay them the wages top players demand. Our best bet always is to sneak in ahead of the pack for a Modric type quality player and gamble on the next Bales.

    We now have a strategy as a team, an ethic and a coach right now willing to reward players who subscribe to the coaches ideas.

    No one is saying we are guaranteed to get silverware in the coming years. But at least we may have an identity forming and young players may see us as the best place to really make the grade. We can at least stay competitive in the hunt with the other top sides in the league
     
    billyiddo likes this.
  8. camspur

    camspur Steed Malbranque

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    Sorry but those 4 players were not world class when they left and 3 of them still aren't. Classy yes, World Class NO.

    Also, 3 of them all moved for money reasons not footballing.
     
  9. demotw

    demotw √ėyvind Leonhardsen

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    All 4 of those players went onto Regular CL + league champion teams. Could argue it was as much for football reasons as money.
     
  10. Yiddo

    Yiddo Johnny Morrison

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    Let's not be bitter here they were all world class that is why they left for the biggest teams possible.
     
  11. NWND

    NWND Banned

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    I slightly agree with this, I think Gutterboy would have been better saying that we are a club on the rise. We've basically pressed the reset button on the Redknapp philosophy and are starting to see the fruits of that, and the investment in the academy and training centre as well as the youth teams.

    Yes, we will likely need to look for new players as the 'Dortmund'/'Ajax' model is all about developing and selling on. But with the structure we have in place and are still building (with Baldini, Mitchell etc) will hopefully mean we can develop our replacements. Already behind the current team there are players like Pritchard, Winks etc. We've invested in Delle Alli and I'm sure there will be other such investments.

    If we sell Lloris, Eriksen, Bentaleb and Kane we will be looking at huge money for them, which can be reinvested.

    I feel we're all going in the right direction.
     
    braineclipse and Gutter Boy like this.
  12. braineclipse

    braineclipse David Ginola

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    Agreed again, and I also agree with GB, even though expecting "silverware to flow" in the next 2-4 years seems a bit over the top optimistic perhaps.

    It seems clear to me that we're heading in the right direction.
     
  13. indianspur

    indianspur Guest

    i dont think we are particularly heading in any direction, i think we are exactly where we have been for the last 10 years or so since Jol took over, bar the odd small blip, and this is where we will stay until the new stadium is built. We will have a few good cup runs, reach one or two finals, qualify from the EL group stage, gain 65-71 pts in the PL.

    this kind of stability is not a bad thing, and if we keep it like this once the stadium is built and our revenues go through the roof we will really be able to push upwards.
     
  14. harr1984

    harr1984 Steffen Iversen

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    I think you've got that the wrong way round, 3 of them are world class Berbatov, Modric and Bale...
     
  15. Millsy_Yiddo

    Millsy_Yiddo Naybet

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    He's managed competing in all competitions pretty well this year if you ask me;

    Spurs:
    Current League Position: 7th with 44 pts
    FA Cup: Out in 4th round
    League Cup: Runners Up
    Europa League: Out in Round of 32

    Liverpool:
    Current League Position: 5th with 48 pts
    FA Cup: Quarter Finals (Still in comp)
    League Cup: Out in Semi Final
    Europa League: Out in Round of 32

    Everton:
    Current League Position: 14th with 28 points
    FA Cup: Out in 3rd Round
    League Cup: Out in 3rd Round
    Europa League: Round of 16 - Still in comp

    Throw in our nearest 'Champions League Team' rivals too;

    Arsenal

    Current League Position: 3rd with 51 points
    FA Cup: Quarter Finals (Still in comp)
    League Cup: Out in 3rd round
    Champions League: Out in round of 16

    Man United:

    Current League Position: 4th with 50 pts
    FA Cup: Quarter Finals (still in comp)
    League Cup: Out in 2nd Round

    Looking at that, he's arguably managed competing in all competitions better than any of the managers around him.

    In his first year as manager.
     
    Last edited: 2 Mar 2015
  16. Lilywhite

    Lilywhite Stephen Kelly

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    Sorry, but I don't know how there can be such positivity surrounding the club unless we're happy with being the best of the chasing pack.

    I will precede this by saying that I like Poch as a man and think he's a decent manager. He's at least given our young players a chance and for that I think him. We now have more of an identity, which is massively important to me as a fan. He's also guided us to famous wins against our two biggest rivals for which I am grateful.

    I don't want him gone by any means but I think the only way we ever contest for the league title in the current climate is if we bring in a Simeone or Klopp, which isn't happening. And that's depressing cos finishing 5th-8th every season, as we have for the vast majority of my lifetime, has become very dull. I know people say "that's where your revenue has you at, you should be pleased" but why should I? Say what you want, football isn't all about finances. Atletico Madrid won La Liga ahead of two behemoths without spending a fortune. Dortmund beat Bayern to consecutive titles not long back. Liverpool pushed the two richest clubs in the world all the way without investing half as much as them. We - yes we, Tottenham Hotspur - were in a position where we could have done similar. In 2011-12 we were 3rd at the turn of the year, well ahead of the rest and closing in on the top two. Then our lack of ambition cost us dearly. We brought in two over-30 squad players. We ended up 4th and missed out on Champions League football. That not only set us back that season, but in the years since aswell.

    People go on about character but what constitutes character? Yes we've won alot of games this season we haven't deserved to thanks to last gasp goals. But we did so last season too? And the year before that? Under AVB. Poch hasn't done as much as people think in that regard. Our football has improved mildly this season, especially since around December/Kane's full time introduction but if we're honest only in the two big London derbies have we been amazing. And I am thankful for that as I said but I'm not sure it's enough evidence to suggest Poch is this great innovator. Arsenal are constantly brick in big away games. We need to start outplaying the lesser teams before I proclaim Poch is a GHod amongst men, rather than relying on Eriksen's long range shooting ability. It's a brilliant thing to have in our locker but it should be one of many, not the main asset.

    That reads back as a very negative critique, and honestly it's not. It's just an attempt to balance out the 'we are going to be amazing' shouts and rallying cries. Don't get your hopes up. Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project will not budge with their money, Man Utd will continue to spend and change managers until it sticks, Liverpool are getting better and better, Arsenal are Arsenal.

    The chance of finishing above even one of those teams again in the next few years is unlikely. Until we get the new stadium going, we have to accept our place unfortunately. So I'm just going to enjoy watching Poch field our young players and the odd scalp of the elite clubs/our rivals in the meantime. Expecting more than that will lead to heartbreak.
     
  17. braineclipse

    braineclipse David Ginola

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    I think we are heading in a direction. I think there's a good developing pattern in our play, although there's clearly a lot of work left to be done.

    When we've had what you call small blips in the last years it's been because we've succeeded both in the transfer market, with player development and with finding a suitable playing style. You can of course call those blips, they're likely to happen given a large sample size, but I think it's been largely as a result of good work at the club. I think similarly we're doing good work right now.

    We have a lot of very talented players and I think we could see a culmination of several of those talented players maturing at the same time under a good manager. That's what I think GB was talking about when talking about this as the start of something.
     
  18. Spur of the moment

    Spur of the moment Nick Barmby

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    Fixed ;)
     
  19. Mumorn

    Mumorn Vic Buckingham

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    Simeone or Klopp wouldnt turn us into Champions. That's laughable to even consider it. Mourinho wouldnt even turn us into Champions.
     
  20. indianspur

    indianspur Guest

    the blips i was referring to were negative ones, season 2007-2008 (even though we won the carling cup it was a poor league campaign) and season 2008-2009.

    Hopefully we have a good summer where we offload the no-hopers and bring in 3 or 4 that Poch really wants
     

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