The London Taxpayers' Stadium Shambles

[JPG_357]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

There's still a funding gap to be filled regarding the overall refurbishing costs - something like £30-40 mil. West Ham should be made to pay for it out of the funds they'll earn from selling Upton Park. Of course, you'll never see or hear a call for that from the gutless UK media. Their overall work in covering this stadium fiasco has been atrocious.

That's just the start of the costs AFAIK. The retractable seating, the roof, etc, it's £100m+

West Ham should have to pay it all, and far higher rent than the knock down money they're offering.

 

[JPG_357]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

You don't Spurs will become an attractive proposition for sugar daddies once we eventually move stadium? Simply no way of knowing what the football landscape will look like in 5-10 years.

we might do, we might not, we haven't built the stadium yet

no-one knows exactly what things will be like in 5-10 years, I'm giving my opinion on what they will be like

My opinion is that if West Ham pull this off on the terms they're offering or anything near to them, it'll be a massive coup for them and will probably transform their fortunes into a club that will challenge us as serious rivals. If they get mega rich owners in they'll quite likely overtake us, unless we do the same.

 

[JPG_357]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

They're not though. The deal on offer this time is different to first time around. They will be leasing the stadium, can't benefit from naming rights or non-footballing revenue from the stadium and it is unclear whether they will have to pay to convert the stadium. What is on the table this time is worth a lot less than last.

I disagree, they're getting massive amounts of free money. They're getting a 99 year lease at a knock down rent surrounded by absolutely fantastic infrastructure.

The deal on their terms gives them tens of millions at least, my guess is when it enables them to be sold off to a mega rich buyer they'll have hit the jackpot to the tune of £100-300m over this.

As it stands West Ham are a two bob club in massive debt in a crappy stadium (those lego towers

this can be a fantastic deal for them

 

[JPG_357]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

Massive gamble for them to move to a stadium with a running track and quite likely a very poor atmosphere in my opinion. They aren't always selling out their current ground and some seasons in mid table (or Championship) at the new place and the charm of a new shiny stadium will have gone along with quite a few of their fans I would guess.

Juve just moved this summer, away from the big stadium with a running track into a smaller stadium, closer to the city, with real atmosphere and no running track. The reasons why are obvious. I think more clubs in Europe are seeing the same thing, running tracks aren't for football clubs and they not only hurt the atmosphere of the games and the "feel of the club", but also finances.

A lot of people think Levy was being a cynical business man when he wanted to move us to Stratford, and I pretty much agree. But as the cynical business man that he is he could see that the running track was just a game stopper. Even with the original plans for funding and the amounts of "free money" that would mean for the club it just wasn't worth it if we didn't end up with an actual football ground.

They would have to get results on the pitch pretty much straight away and push towards the Champions League in the first couple of seasons to keep the buzz going, if they can then maybe this could be a stepping stone for West Ham as a club, that's a big if and a big maybe though.

I don't think it's a gamble at all, I think it's a no-brainer so do West Ham's owners, IMHO.

I am absolutely convinced the only reason they took over West Ham debts and pumped the money into them that they have, is because of the OS and the massive return they can get on their investment if they get it on the sort of terms they're offering.

The minute they get their hands on the stadium they can start beefing up their squad to keep them in the Prem, in the sure knowledge they'll get their cash back anfd then some. In fact they'll probably start getting extra equity on board from other sources pretty soon after the contracts ae signed.

All IMHO of course

 

[braineclipse]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

I don't think it's a gamble at all, I think it's a no-brainer so do West ham's owners.

I am absolutely convinced the only reason they took over West Ham debts and pumped the money into them that they have, is because of the OS and the massive return they can get on their investment if they get it on the sort of terms they're offering.

What is good for their owners isn't the same thing as what is good for the club.

Seems very likely that there is money there to be made by moving West Ham to that stadium then selling them, even with a profit share model they can probably make some good cash on this. That in itself doesn't help West Ham as a club though.

Actually it also seems quite likely that their current owners don't give a brick about the long term health of West Ham, but only care about what they can earn on a move and then what happens under the new owners will happen. Might very well be a no-brainer for them, doesn't make it a good thing for the club itself or the fans.

If they are sold to a Celsea/Emirates Marketing Project style owner as a result of this then of course that will benefit them on the pitch, but I don't see that as a given. Far from it actually. It's very easy to look at those two clubs and imagine that the grass is always greener on the other side of a takeover, but as many examples at other clubs have shown that's not always the case. Possibly even more of the exception than the rule. I'm (again) guessing that the current owners are motivated (almost) exclusively by profits, the selling price will decide who buys the club should it change hands. Owners with much more emotional attachment to the clubs, at much bigger clubs than West Ham, have had no problems selling their clubs to the highest bidders even when those bidders haven't been good for the club.

A lot of potential pit falls here, the biggest one being a wind swept, half empty, emotionless stadium.

 

[JPG_357]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

What is good for their owners isn't the same thing as what is good for the club.

Seems very likely that there is money there to be made by moving West Ham to that stadium then selling them, even with a profit share model they can probably make some good cash on this. That in itself doesn't help West Ham as a club though.

Actually it also seems quite likely that their current owners don't give a brick about the long term health of West Ham, but only care about what they can earn on a move and then what happens under the new owners will happen. Might very well be a no-brainer for them, doesn't make it a good thing for the club itself or the fans.

If they are sold to a Celsea/Emirates Marketing Project style owner as a result of this then of course that will benefit them on the pitch, but I don't see that as a given. Far from it actually. It's very easy to look at those two clubs and imagine that the grass is always greener on the other side of a takeover, but as many examples at other clubs have shown that's not always the case. Possibly even more of the exception than the rule. I'm (again) guessing that the current owners are motivated (almost) exclusively by profits, the selling price will decide who buys the club should it change hands. Owners with much more emotional attachment to the clubs, at much bigger clubs than West Ham, have had no problems selling their clubs to the highest bidders even when those bidders haven't been good for the club.

A lot of potential pit falls here, the biggest one being a wind swept, half empty, emotionless stadium.

Fair comments., but it's still a no-brainer for me.

West ham are going nowhere in their current dump of a ground.

No trophies for over 30 years, relegated every single decade for the past five decades and almost guaranteed to continue that run sometime in the next 15 years or so if they stay at UP.

Always in the shadow of us and Arsenal and in the last twenty years or more Chelsea too.

To me there's no gamble there for the club, let alone the owners.

They're offering £2.5m rent pa for a stadium and infrastructure that will have cost at least £600m when the necessary refurb is done.

I'd like to know where you could get that sort of deal without being taxpayer funded.

We'd have started work on our ground a long time ago if we could build it for £2.5 million a year.

I know it's not the same as renting, but West Ham have a 99 year lease, few stadiums last that long in any recognisable shape or form.

To me, it's like printing money for West Ham at the taxpayers' expense.

 

[Mr. Green]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

Kind of my point.. They have to keep the athletics track just in case we win an Athletics competition. but for the other 99.9% of the time its just a rubbish half-empty stadium converted for football.

The best thing would be if we bid and fail to win the 2017 event, and decided to bid again in 10 years time. In that case, Spammers would be stuck with the tracks for at least 15 years.

 

[Mr. Green]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

That's because they count the season ticket holders even if they don't turn up, I have family who are ST holders there.

The atmosphere there has always been sh*t, so they won't care whether ST holders turn up our not, so long as the money is in the bank.

 

[Mr. Green]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

I think if West Ham get it, at anywhere near favourable rates, it's a fantastic coup for them, and could well see them challenging us about a decade down the line.

I was all for us going to the OS on Levy's terms. It's an absolutely fantastic venue in terms of infrastructure and proximity to the City for sponsorship, corporates etc, and could have propelled us to being consistent trophy winners and actual title challengers at the business end of the season.

If West Ham get away with this robbery of taxpayers money they would have hit the jackpot as surely as Chelsea and City have done in different ways.

Being West Ham they'll probably fudge it up a bit, but I would expect the owners to sell to some mega rich buyers and then the horror of them finishing regularly above us will be a very realistic option.

Great day, potentially, for West Ham, bad day, potentially for us, Arsenal and Chelsea.

To me, the best thing about us getting OS is that we have a confirmed new stadium plan and we can move forward. Not waiting for approval, funding etc etc and no timeline. I know it's emotionally difficult to accept, but like most things in life, we adopt and remeber fondly the pasts. I don't think that Lammy scum can stop us from using Tottenham in our name either.

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

we might do, we might not, we haven't built the stadium yet

no-one knows exactly what things will be like in 5-10 years, I'm giving my opinion on what they will be like

My opinion is that if West Ham pull this off on the terms they're offering or anything near to them, it'll be a massive coup for them and will probably transform their fortunes into a club that will challenge us as serious rivals. If they get mega rich owners in they'll quite likely overtake us, unless we do the same.

Sadly, this

 

[Mr. Green]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

The Spammers are getting to use not only a huge stadium at relatively small cost, but this is OS, the best connected ground in UK (just compared to WHL, you will get an idea). They might not be able to fill the ground early on, but slowly over time, I do think they will be able to fill it up. Just imgaine, they can sell ticket price at 75% of what other London clubs are charging and still get more matchday revenue than what they can get now.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

There's no doubt that a move to the Olympic stadium will benefit West Ham.

Just not by as much as the scaremongers imagine.

They will have to reduce ticket prices massively to sell out 60K - especially once the novelty value has worn off and fans realise just how much further away they are from the field of play (even with retractable seating).

As to corporate seating, my understanding is that the stadium will accommodate 5,000 such seats. That's more than a thousand less than the new WHL. And all this talk about the stadium being near to Canary Wharf.....proximity isn't the chief selling point and never has been. It's chiefly about the product - the quality of football; the importance of the games; the atmosphere.

Finally, the notion that West Ham will overtake Spurs, purely on the basis of moving to this stadium, seems to be dependent on them subsequently being bought by a mega rich billionaire who is desperate to throw his money at the club. Quite apart from the fact that such people don't grow on trees, the truth of the matter is that the introduction of FFP makes the future involvement of such owners infinitely less likely. Besides which, the chances of West Ham being bought by such an owner are no greater than the chances of Spurs being bought by such an owner. So no point getting your knickers in a twist about it.

Certainly, there is no reason why West Ham couldn't one day become a successful club. But it won't be principally the consequence of moving to a new stadium.

 

[JPG_357]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

Well we'll see what happens JB, and who has given the best analysis. As has been said no-one knows for sure what will happen in 5-10 years.

Much depends in the short-term on the exact deal that's hammered out, I am absolutely convinced that the taxpayer is gonna get rinsed by West Ham over this, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[JPG_357]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

The Spammers are getting to use not only a huge stadium at relatively small cost, but this is OS, the best connected ground in UK (just compared to WHL, you will get an idea). They might not be able to fill the ground early on, but slowly over time, I do think they will be able to fill it up. Just imgaine, they can sell ticket price at 75% of what other London clubs are charging and still get more matchday revenue than what they can get now.

Well said, the opportunities the OS offers are enormous.

 

[Mr. Green]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

There's no doubt that a move to the Olympic stadium will benefit West Ham.

Just not by as much as the scaremongers imagine.

They will have to reduce ticket prices massively to sell out 60K - especially once the novelty value has worn off and fans realise just how much further away they are from the field of play (even with retractable seating).

As to corporate seating, my understanding is that the stadium will accommodate 5,000 such seats. That's more than a thousand less than the new WHL. And all this talk about the stadium being near to Canary Wharf.....proximity isn't the chief selling point and never has been. It's chiefly about the product - the quality of football; the importance of the games; the atmosphere.

Finally, the notion that West Ham will overtake Spurs, purely on the basis of moving to this stadium, seems to be dependent on them subsequently being bought by a mega rich billionaire who is desperate to throw his money at the club. Quite apart from the fact that such people don't grow on trees, the truth of the matter is that the introduction of FFP makes the future involvement of such owners infinitely less likely. Besides which, the chances of West Ham being bought by such an owner are no greater than the chances of Spurs being bought by such an owner. So no point getting your knickers in a twist about it.

Certainly, there is no reason why West Ham couldn't one day become a successful club. But it won't be principally the consequence of moving to a new stadium.

I am in the middle actually, I do agree that a stadium in itself, even if it's a great foundation stone, doesn't completely change the fortune of a club.

As a 20 years+ supporter, I actually thought the OS would have benefited us more than Spammers (based on our plan and the original tender terms). The only downside is the emotional aspect, it is really really tough to leave behind WHL (but there is a plus-side too, we get to dump Lammy).

 

[Baleforce]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

The Spammers are getting to use not only a huge stadium at relatively small cost, but this is OS, the best connected ground in UK (just compared to WHL, you will get an idea). They might not be able to fill the ground early on, but slowly over time, I do think they will be able to fill it up. Just imgaine, they can sell ticket price at 75% of what other London clubs are charging and still get more matchday revenue than what they can get now.

being next to westfield will help as well, its a family day out for out of towners now

 

[JPG_357]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

being next to westfield will help as well, its a family day out for out of towners now

Exactly, the benefits from this stadium and infrastructure will be huge. If West Ham get it at the knock down deal they're offering it will transform their fortunes for the better. Indeed, irritatingly, fortune may no longer be hiding from them after all these years of empty bubbles.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

Well we'll see what happens JB, and who has given the best analysis. As has been said no-one knows for sure what will happen in 5-10 years.

Much depends in the short-term on the exact deal that's hammered out, I am absolutely convinced that the taxpayer is gonna get rinsed by West Ham over this, but I hope I'm wrong.

It isn't analysis, mate. It's crystal ball gazing.

There's no point getting worked into a lather about something that hasn't happened; that is unlikely to happen; and which, if it does happen at all, is no more likely to happen to West Ham than to Spurs.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

There's no doubt that a move to the Olympic stadium will benefit West Ham.

Just not by as much as the scaremongers imagine.

They will have to reduce ticket prices massively to sell out 60K - especially once the novelty value has worn off and fans realise just how much further away they are from the field of play (even with retractable seating).

As to corporate seating, my understanding is that the stadium will accommodate 5,000 such seats. That's more than a thousand less than the new WHL. And all this talk about the stadium being near to Canary Wharf.....proximity isn't the chief selling point and never has been. It's chiefly about the product - the quality of football; the importance of the games; the atmosphere.

Finally, the notion that West Ham will overtake Spurs, purely on the basis of moving to this stadium, seems to be dependent on them subsequently being bought by a mega rich billionaire who is desperate to throw his money at the club. Quite apart from the fact that such people don't grow on trees, the truth of the matter is that the introduction of FFP makes the future involvement of such owners infinitely less likely. Besides which, the chances of West Ham being bought by such an owner are no greater than the chances of Spurs being bought by such an owner. So no point getting your knickers in a twist about it.

Certainly, there is no reason why West Ham couldn't one day become a successful club. But it won't be principally the consequence of moving to a new stadium.

Excellent post Jimmy

 

[Mr. Green]

Re: O/T West Ham Named Olympic Stadium Preferred Bidders

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...e-can-create-a-super-club-in-east-London.html

West Ham's Olympic Stadium move can create a super club in east London