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Tactics Thread

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by diego_maradona, 1 Sep 2013.

  1. King of Norway

    King of Norway Gudni Bergsson

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    Playing 4-2-3-1 gives us more defensive cover in the wide areas.

    The last couple of goals we have conceded have come from the first pass after we have lost possession. Better "offensive marking" is needed. Our center backs need to be aware of the striker even when we are in possession, as well as dropping off a bit before the pass is played.
     
  2. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Steve Sedgley

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    Offensive marking... never heard of that
    So when we lose the call we should be marking?
     
  3. Modric THFC

    Modric THFC Chris Perry

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    Just when you thought Mourinho had nothing new left to give to football he innovates

    three central defenders
    Aurier
    six attacking midfielders
     
    thfcsteff likes this.
  4. Kandi1977

    Kandi1977 Nayim

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    And all of them, except Aurier, allergic to make runs into the box.
     
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  5. Cochise

    Cochise Steve Carr

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    One thing I can't understand is how so many second balls are dropping for our opponents. More than once today Winks and Eriksen were not close to balls coming off our defenders.
     
  6. AdamB

    AdamB Les Medley

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    I think we need to cut him some slack for now on tactics. We really dont have the players:
    - Where's the powerful, dominating CB which he'd want?
    - Who is his Makelele?
    - He doesnt have a left back today with Rose and Davies out
    - He doesnt have a CF given Kane is injured.

    The squad needs such a rebuild that I think we need to only start to judge his tactics from August and then properly from August 2021.
     
    Pirate55, SteveAWOL and parklane1 like this.
  7. Benny_Lad

    Benny_Lad Neil Sullivan

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    Last season and beginning of this season Poch died with the 3 at the back and wing backs.

    Jose came in and looked as though we were just going to return to 4231. Few good results and now it seems we are back to 5 at the back.

    Now here’s my major problems with it.

    The wing backs hardly ever get that far forward (Aurier maybe a bit but majority of crosses are either ballooned or hit the first defender). I would say their heat maps are no different to the full backs when we play 4231. Therefore you are just playing with an extra defender and leaving yourself one short up field. We did this vs Brighton - it was ugly viewing. Eventually we bought on GLC for Sessegnon and it changed the game.

    In a 4231 the wide players of the 3 are your first line of defence. With wing backs behind them they can’t help but play a bit tighter inside. This means when you lose possession they are not in a natural position to defend wide.

    3 CBs seems to do more harm than good. A lot of the time they are sharing one striker. It’s almost as if we are only doing it to mask the short comings of a DCM - basically inviting the opposition midfield to come through to the defence.

    It does not work under any measure. We seem to be starting with it more frequently now and when we eventually switch mid game to a 4231 things seem to improve, so why do we keep persisting with it.

    The longer we run with the 5, the tougher things will become. Remember TAA and Robertson when Poch went with a 5. Really not looking forward to Saturday.
     
    NaijaSpurs and Bullet like this.
  8. parklane1

    parklane1 Les Howe

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    Great to see some sense, Jose is fighting so many fires at the moment ( as Poch was before leaving) injurys to players, complete loss of form by some others and trying to blend new players in. His priority on arriving was to try and get us some wins and he has done that so far.

    Its pretty obvious to most fans that he has a big rebuilding job on is hands and at the moment he lacks the players to do that. Anyone who thought that we would suddenly return to the form of the last few seasons with a change of manager was living in cloud cuckoo land ( imo) he has a big job on his hands and it will take time to do it. All this talk about what formation is good/bad/ working/ not working is not really relevant at the moment its all about results and trying to overturn our really poor run before he came here.
     
  9. NaijaSpurs

    NaijaSpurs Pedro Mendes

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    It just does not make any logical sense if we continually start with a back 3 and then change formation when like clockwork we start to struggle.
     
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  10. mudshark

    mudshark Mitchell Thomas

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    Otherwise known as rest-defence. The positioning of players not directly involved in attacking while you are in possession, and whether they are more or less well-disposed to counter-press or otherwise resist possible counter-attack. We're crap at it, which is why we so often get caught with a simple ball over the top/into a channel and other counter-attack 101 moves.
     
  11. Daisuk

    Daisuk Chris Perry

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    At least its looking like we're improving defensively.

     
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  12. mudshark

    mudshark Mitchell Thomas

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    Our xGA rate, particularly away, has definitely improved under Mourinho. Before he arrived, we were in the bottom three of the table below*, Aston Villa levels of bad.
    Code:
    xGAA Table         xGF      xGA      xGFH     xGAH     xGFA      xGAA*  +/-
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    01 Liverpool      2.146    0.883    2.3027   0.88     1.9544   0.8867     0
    02 Wolves         1.3833   1.1824   1.348    1.284    1.4155   1.09      +2
    03 Man United     1.7071   1.0348   1.809    0.927    1.6145   1.1327    +6
    04 Emirates Marketing Project       2.6457   1.0652   2.7345   0.8964   2.548    1.251     +6
    05 Arsenal        1.32     1.4219   1.3573   1.5536   1.279    1.277     +1
    06 Burnley        1.2971   1.3124   1.4209   1.2855   1.161    1.342     +8
    07 Leicester      1.6443   1.271    1.38     1.189    1.8845   1.3455    -5
    08 Southampton    1.4938   1.4557   1.3718   1.5318   1.628    1.372     -1
    09 Everton        1.4071   1.2929   1.415    1.201    1.40     1.3764    +8
    10 Chelsea        1.9157   1.1586   2.221    0.85     1.6382   1.4391    +5
    11 Tottenham      1.2943   1.2443   1.511    0.936    1.0973   1.5245    +5
    12 Sheff Utd      1.281    1.259    1.561    0.959    1.0264   1.5318    -9
    13 Norwich        1.07     1.8457   1.1609   2.0255   0.97     1.648     -2
    14 Crystal Palace 0.9376   1.5533   1.014    1.425    0.8682   1.67      -9
    15 Bournemouth    1.0948   1.5838   1.221    1.446    0.98     1.7091    -3
    16 Brighton       1.3457   1.5876   1.48     1.3209   1.198    1.881     -3
    17 Watford        1.241    1.62     1.6227   1.3618   0.821    1.904     +1
    18 Newcastle      0.8476   1.7905   0.9573   1.6745   0.727    1.918     +2
    19 West Ham       1.183    1.935    1.31     1.813    1.056    2.057    -11
    20 Aston Villa    1.2933   2.0271   1.405    1.762    1.1918   2.2682    -1
    
    * sorted on XGA away, +/- refers to position relative to when sorted on away goals against.
    Our home numbers are better, and have been all along.
     
    Last edited: 7 Jan 2020
  13. SteveAWOL

    SteveAWOL Rafael Van Der Vaart

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  14. Raziel

    Raziel Jimmy Neighbour

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    So a question of how do we utilize the squad, when the fit players come back

    For me, the only certain first 11 players are -> Hugo, Toby, Davies & Aurier (no other FBs), N'dombele, Lo Celso, Son, Kane

    So that leaves Sanchez, Tanganga, Winks, Sissoko, Gedson, Lamela, Lucas, SB, Dele to fit into 3 spots?

    What's you first choice?
    What formation does Jose play with everyone fit
    Does Sissoko, Winks, Dele fit in first 11?
    If we don't need Tanganga in back line, could we play him in midfield?
     
  15. braineclipse

    braineclipse Chris Jones

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    We're seemingly closing in on a first choice eleven. At the moment Winks and Lo Celso have made themselves clear starters. Alli is an automatic starter for me. Bergwijn has put in a pretty strong claim to start ahead of Lamela for the short term at least. Sanchez looking ahead of Vertonghen, but will be interesting to see if Tanganga is given a chance next to Alderweireld.

    Up to the others to do enough in training and the game time they get to try to dislodge those currently starting. Some might get the chance to prove themselves in the cup midweek.

    Tanganga and Ndombele probably those that should feel the closest.

    Good problems to have. Can easily remember a time when looking at the bench it all looked rather uninspiring. Now it's a different story.
     
  16. SteveAWOL

    SteveAWOL Rafael Van Der Vaart

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  17. Cochise

    Cochise Steve Carr

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    It's going to be interesting how we lineup against Southampton with Dele out. I say this as the injury to Sissoko and the sale of Eriksen have seen GLC given a lot of minutes to be come a first choice in his position. Now Dele is likely injured, we may see a trio of N'Dombele, Winks and GLC, a midfield that many have been hoping to see.
     
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  18. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Jimmy Neighbour

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    We're heading towards 433.
     
  19. metalgear

    metalgear Christian Ziege

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    Bergwyn, lo celso, ndombele and gedson for me.
    Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
     
  20. SteveAWOL

    SteveAWOL Rafael Van Der Vaart

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