Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[thfcsteff]

Off the back of Grays excellent recent posts, I'd like to add that for me, one of the greatest issues about internet versus real life is that context of comments can be lost or misinterpreted very easily, and unless there is willingness on parties to work through a moment, it can alter the context of both a response and all future posts. I personally think that if someone has taken something the wrong way, it is on the person who posted to try and articulate themselves in a way said-posted will understand more easily. Once that is done, if the differences remain then so be it. But so many of these issues would be corrected if we were able to just have conversations "live" face-to-face...

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Off the back of Grays excellent recent posts, I'd like to add that for me, one of the greatest issues about internet versus real life is that context of comments can be lost or misinterpreted very easily, and unless there is willingness on parties to work through a moment, it can alter the context of both a response and all future posts. I personally think that if someone has taken something the wrong way, it is on the person who posted to try and articulate themselves in a way said-posted will understand more easily. Once that is done, if the differences remain then so be it. But so many of these issues would be corrected if we were able to just have conversations "live" face-to-face...

Id add that at least there is half a chance of that happening on a forum. Other forms of social media (twitter fbook etc) are so short form, immediate, fast flowing, over populated that so little gets worked through, thought through, pondered, analysed before your off on tangents, down a rabbit hole or more than likely in a slanging match, trolled or a one upmanship worthless game.

It must be exhausting, and much like short form journalism...it really doesn't add up to very much (worth) at all.

At least we kinda know a little bit about each other on here, and we should hold on to that as a good thing, in an increasingly faceless anonymous cyber world.

 

[Grays_1890]

And IMO, that stretches back to Kennedy. He was the man who ushered that whole strain of importance into politics.

American history by Lucy Worsley on the BBC is excellent about Kennedy and his lies especially about his fake claims on the Cuban Missile crisis, saw it last week was excellent. She is a great historian

 

[Grays_1890]

Id add that at least there is half a chance of that happening on a forum. Other forms of social media (twitter fbook etc) are so short form, immediate, fast flowing, over populated that so little gets worked through, thought through, pondered, analysed before your off on tangents, down a rabbit hole or more than likely in a slanging match, trolled or a one upmanship worthless game.

It must be exhausting, and much like short form journalism...it really doesn't add up to very much (worth) at all.

At least we kinda know a little bit about each other on here, and we should hold on to that as a good thing, in an increasingly faceless anonymous cyber world.

I would agree with that, I find here much more open and also informed that other outlets for sure.

My post earlier highlighted the pitfalls but the plus outweighs hugely

 

[Grays_1890]

Off the back of Grays excellent recent posts, I'd like to add that for me, one of the greatest issues about internet versus real life is that context of comments can be lost or misinterpreted very easily, and unless there is willingness on parties to work through a moment, it can alter the context of both a response and all future posts. I personally think that if someone has taken something the wrong way, it is on the person who posted to try and articulate themselves in a way said-posted will understand more easily. Once that is done, if the differences remain then so be it. But so many of these issues would be corrected if we were able to just have conversations "live" face-to-face...

And TBH despite our differences I can't speak higher of @Gilzeantoscore for his clarification. Having a day or two break regardless was healthy

 

[thfcsteff]

American history by Lucy Worsley on the BBC is excellent about Kennedy and his lies especially about his fake claims on the Cuban Missile crisis, saw it last week was excellent. She is a great historian

I will check it out. A quite brilliant book is Stephen Kinzer's Overthrow which details the ugly history of American regime change. Covers Cuba (though generally) but it lays out a lot for those who don't know about much of it. I think Kinzer is brilliant: All The Shah's Men is outstanding.

 

[thfcsteff]

Id add that at least there is half a chance of that happening on a forum. Other forms of social media (twitter fbook etc) are so short form, immediate, fast flowing, over populated that so little gets worked through, thought through, pondered, analysed before your off on tangents, down a rabbit hole or more than likely in a slanging match, trolled or a one upmanship worthless game.

It must be exhausting, and much like short form journalism...it really doesn't add up to very much (worth) at all.

At least we kinda know a little bit about each other on here, and we should hold on to that as a good thing, in an increasingly faceless anonymous cyber world.

Agreed mate.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

At the end of the day were all spurs.

 

[glasgowspur]

Off the back of Grays excellent recent posts, I'd like to add that for me, one of the greatest issues about internet versus real life is that context of comments can be lost or misinterpreted very easily, and unless there is willingness on parties to work through a moment, it can alter the context of both a response and all future posts. I personally think that if someone has taken something the wrong way, it is on the person who posted to try and articulate themselves in a way said-posted will understand more easily. Once that is done, if the differences remain then so be it. But so many of these issues would be corrected if we were able to just have conversations "live" face-to-face...

There are some that willfully misinterpret posts/points just for the sake of it.
They have no intention of debating, they just want to throw their weight about and appear superior or belittle.

 

[Grays_1890]

Just been reading about the exam situation here in the UK.

I get that its tough for students (not calling them kids like the news they are close to adults) but surely the reality is they did not sit exams they can not really have the same results they were projected? Then in my mind it would be down to employers and unis to downgrade their expectations and say ok you needed an A we will take a B? Thats not opening it up to others for abuse because Uni places are already provisionally agreed. I would as an employer of people prefer to take into account Covid than a false grade and have that conversation with the person and work from there.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Just been reading about the exam situation here in the UK.

I get that its tough for students (not calling them kids like the news they are close to adults) but surely the reality is they did not sit exams they can not really have the same results they were projected? Then in my mind it would be down to employers and unis to downgrade their expectations and say ok you needed an A we will take a B? Thats not opening it up to others for abuse because Uni places are already provisionally agreed. I would as an employer of people prefer to take into account Covid than a false grade and have that conversation with the person and work from there.

But the projections were submitted only because there were no exams to sit. So projections based on mock results and teachers' knowledge of their pupils ability, in order to to come to a final grade, with the projections being further assessed by exam boards.
The problem seems to be with the mechanism used to level out the results, which effectively ignores teacher projections in certain circumstances and which put too much onus on previous results at each school, meaning pupils who are above the average get pulled down, and then ones who achieve at the 'expected' average get pulled down further because of the bell-curve requirement.
This disproportionately impacts able pupils at previously mid to low-achieving schools.

I agree that it would be massively helpful if universities took a more flexible approach but there are no signs they are doing that (I have only heard of one in the news that has said they will give a place to everyone who had been offered a conditional place). As for employers, well if pupils are unable to get into university then many are unlikely to be in a position to have those conversations with the companies they aspire to work for. And with so many people potentially looking for work due to covid-related job losses, those leaving school with low A-Level grades will struggle even more, as there's a good chance they wouldn't make it past the first CV sift.

Right now there is no clear mechanism for appeals, because OfQual pulled their criteria and haven't been able to come up with an alternative. So no one knows how to appeal or on what grounds, in the meantime universities are going ahead with confirming placements anyway. And all this just 3 days before GCSE results come out, when it will be rinse and repeat because the same algorithm has been used.

The whole thing is a debacle.

 

[Grays_1890]

But the projections were submitted only because there were no exams to sit. So projections based on mock results and teachers' knowledge of their pupils ability, in order to to come to a final grade, with the projections being further assessed by exam boards.
The problem seems to be with the mechanism used to level out the results, which effectively ignores teacher projections in certain circumstances and which put too much onus on previous results at each school, meaning pupils who are above the average get pulled down, and then ones who achieve at the 'expected' average get pulled down further because of the bell-curve requirement.
This disproportionately impacts able pupils at previously mid to low-achieving schools.

I agree that it would be massively helpful if universities took a more flexible approach but there are no signs they are doing that (I have only heard of one in the news that has said they will give a place to everyone who had been offered a conditional place). As for employers, well if pupils are unable to get into university then many are unlikely to be in a position to have those conversations with the companies they aspire to work for. And with so many people potentially looking for work due to covid-related job losses, those leaving school with low A-Level grades will struggle even more, as there's a good chance they wouldn't make it past the first CV sift.

Right now there is no clear mechanism for appeals, because OfQual pulled their criteria and haven't been able to come up with an alternative. So no one knows how to appeal or on what grounds, in the meantime universities are going ahead with confirming placements anyway. And all this just 3 days before GCSE results come out, when it will be rinse and repeat because the same algorithm has been used.

The whole thing is a debacle.

I do get where you are coming from and maybe my view is overly simplified but for surely the final exam is relevant to making the grade or they wouldn't have to sit them? It's heartbreaking to not have that included in your final grade but I just think it's better the end user aka the Uni and Companies adjust their set to the situation than give false grades on unsat exams.

Our company maybe unique but we have already agreed to take the drop in grades into account

 

[Glenda's Legs]

I do get where you are coming from and maybe my view is overly simplified but for surely the final exam is relevant to making the grade or they wouldn't have to sit them? It's heartbreaking to not have that included in your final grade but I just think it's better the end user aka the Uni and Companies adjust their set to the situation than give false grades on unsat exams.

Our company maybe unique but we have already agreed to take the drop in grades into account

It sounds like your company is doing the decent thing and it is great to hear that, but (cynic that I am!) I suspect that won't be the norm. It certainly doesn't seem to be so far with universities.
I think the other thing to say is that whilst basing a grade on teacher assessments might be a 'false' grade because an exam has not been sat, you could equally say that coming up with a grade based largely on school performance and not any individual capability assessment is just as much a false grade. Each deserves a level of understanding of the situation but only one creates a huge amount of stress and anxiety and potentially impacts on future education/employment prospects. (Depending on whether one has your faith in employers or my cynicism!)

 

[Mikey10]

But the projections were submitted only because there were no exams to sit. So projections based on mock results and teachers' knowledge of their pupils ability, in order to to come to a final grade, with the projections being further assessed by exam boards.
The problem seems to be with the mechanism used to level out the results, which effectively ignores teacher projections in certain circumstances and which put too much onus on previous results at each school, meaning pupils who are above the average get pulled down, and then ones who achieve at the 'expected' average get pulled down further because of the bell-curve requirement.
This disproportionately impacts able pupils at previously mid to low-achieving schools.

I agree that it would be massively helpful if universities took a more flexible approach but there are no signs they are doing that (I have only heard of one in the news that has said they will give a place to everyone who had been offered a conditional place). As for employers, well if pupils are unable to get into university then many are unlikely to be in a position to have those conversations with the companies they aspire to work for. And with so many people potentially looking for work due to covid-related job losses, those leaving school with low A-Level grades will struggle even more, as there's a good chance they wouldn't make it past the first CV sift.

Right now there is no clear mechanism for appeals, because OfQual pulled their criteria and haven't been able to come up with an alternative. So no one knows how to appeal or on what grounds, in the meantime universities are going ahead with confirming placements anyway. And all this just 3 days before GCSE results come out, when it will be rinse and repeat because the same algorithm has been used.

The whole thing is a debacle.

I’m just happy we didn’t get chaos with Milliband or Corbyn.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Tories about to backtrack?

 

[Diamond Lights]

Gavin Williamson last week: “No U-turn, no change”

 

[Grays_1890]

Gavin Williamson last week: “No U-turn, no change”

Genuine question do you prefer decision u-turned or stick to them?

 

[Wilheldiva]

should've scrapped a-levels this year and just used a combination of gcse and AS results for uni places (given that it doesnt look realistic to seat all the students for a exam later in the year).

lots of people on social media seem happy that we are now using teacher assessed results - with little consideration of that fact that we've just inflated results. i guess the masses have little understanding of the negative effects of inflation whether it be money printing or results printing...

also worryingly, it appears that the backtrack was simply the result of the unexpected volume of protest. had a much smaller (than 40%) of results been downgraded, there would've been less angst against the government - and a u-turn would've been unlikely. if you think about that, it shows how incompetently this has been handled by the government, and should be a cause for concern.

 

[Grays_1890]

should've scrapped a-levels this year and just used a combination of gcse and AS results for uni places (given that it doesnt look realistic to seat all the students for a exam later in the year).

lots of people on social media seem happy that we are now using teacher assessed results - with little consideration of that fact that we've just inflated results. i guess the masses have little understanding of the negative effects of inflation whether it be money printing or results printing...

And the fact teacher assessments are infuenced by personal relationship bias and the teachers ability. Not saying both happen wholesale but I imagine one teachers A is another's A+ and the student bond between teacher and student curries better marks than an independent exam.

 

[Wilheldiva]

its worrying to see that the government dont have any cojones and have just given in to the masses here. this is not to say that their process for "normalising results" wasn't a load of rubbish either.

like other "movements" and "protests" held by large portions of the population in recent months that the government have done nothing about, the government have shown that they are not about protecting property, liberty, and rights of individuals. but rather, they are weak, and simply pandering to the masses.