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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by SpurMeUp, 19 Feb 2019.

  1. Parklaner81

    Parklaner81 Steve Hodge

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    And reading comments like this, you can see why politics has become as polarised as it has.
     
  2. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 John Lacy

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    .

    Such a good post

    Many a report on the let's inability to engage or get to the people and talk about their fears and worries which led to Trump and Brexit.

    There are plenty of studies online if you care to read where those that were never voting who voted because of the lack of understanding of areas and situations. Easier to call people who are scared and uneducated names than engage. That happened in the states and they can pin point the change to "deplorables" comment to when Hilary lost the faith

    Even on here the stronger level of abuse or name calling comes from one side of the fence bar a few good blokes.
     
    Parklaner81 likes this.
  3. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

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    Now let me say i have know many migrants particularly from Latvia and all have been good hardworking guys.

    I imagine it is a very small section of asylum seekers that commit crimes, but some do.

    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/18641917.portslade-wimpy-rapist-nanthvavaraman-worked-uk-illegally/ My local newspaper yesterday. Though it has not been reported, it is known locally the girl he raped was 14.

    The are many sections of our society we need to improve on, I expect our health minister to reform the NHS and make it more streamline, I expect the environment minister to make us as a country move towards being completely renewable and self reliant for energy. I expect the home secretary to keep us safe and to do her job with border control measures.
     
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  4. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

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    They criticise Trump for his lies and deliberate misinformation but you see people make claims on the other side which are frankly just as ridiculous. I am wondering if that is what went through the minds of Trump supporters in America and thats why they vote for him. I can not stand Trump but can understand how after decades of lies perhaps people dont care if their elected leader tells porkies and cant read.
     
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  5. StephenH

    StephenH Chris Jones

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    But only when it's to 'their' liking and it doesn't put 'their' nose out of joint or impact on 'their' safe cosy existence.

    These same people would have their fat arses in a rubber dingy so fecking quickly if they were trying to escape brickholes like Iraq, their arses would be a blur.
     
  6. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 John Lacy

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    I couldn't care if he chocked on a Big Mac I just can't stand political double standards
     
  7. StephenH

    StephenH Chris Jones

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    That's because people like myself are too polite to tell right-wingers like yourself to just do one.
     
  8. Parklaner81

    Parklaner81 Steve Hodge

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    You're making yourself look a total idiot, mate.
     
  9. StephenH

    StephenH Chris Jones

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    I can live with that
     
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  10. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

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    Such as?

    If i were desperate to get out of Iraq then I would be happy to claim asylum in the first country i got to rather then risk death with my family coming to the racist brexit loving uk.
     
  11. StephenH

    StephenH Chris Jones

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    why should they not go where they like!
     
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  12. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

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    What is wrong with saying we should be going to aid camps to get refugees from worn torn countries. What is wrong by saying that the illegal ones coming across nearly all young males is also wrong. Surely we have a duty to those poor families fleeing to try and keep them together. What is wrong saying turning a blind eye to those coming across in dingys will just encourage more to make the journey and then soon one day something terrible will happen and a load will die like those Chinese people in the lorries a few years ago.

    Do you actually think it is wrong or do you just have such an ideological hatred of others point of views that you will always take the opposite view to them?
     
  13. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

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    Because they are claiming asylum. That is the point they are not economic migrants otherwise they would be privy to all the restrictions that economic migrants are. If they are really fleeing and running for their lives they would go to the first safe country.

    We have a long proud history of looking after asylum seekers and one that will continue but we should be looking out for the truly vulnerable ones, not people who just want to go to a country with better benefits(benefits includes housing)
     
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  14. StephenH

    StephenH Chris Jones

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    not at all, I just don’t like closet right-wing bullies.
     
  15. Parklaner81

    Parklaner81 Steve Hodge

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    Couldn't agree more.

    I was bought up in a household that was as staunch-labour as they get, my father was a party member and activist. Once I developed the ability to think for myself and began to move politically, one of the (several) issues that helped me along the way was this very point - the left (and I use the term in general, it obviously isn't everyone, but it's enough to make it very noticeable in my view) like to claim the moral high ground, but my experience has often been that they're the first to show intolerance, resort to name-calling and the like, and completely shut down & attempt to de-legitimise and belittle the views of those they disagree with. There's even evidence of it on this very page...

    What I find genuinely sad though (not to mention very worrying) is that I had hoped the outcome of the brexit referendum (and Trump, for that matter) might lead them to address this flaw. It doesn't seem to be happening. Mostly in fact, I only see a doubling down...which isn't going to end well for anyone.
     
    Last edited: 12 Aug 2020
  16. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

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    I will be dead before it happens, but I do worry that when Scotland finally leaves the union and after a few years of a Labour/Lib dem government the tories will be so desperate for power they vote in a "tough" leader, the country so fee
     
  17. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover the prettiest spice girl

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    Where are then?

    Where is the bullying? Or are we still not allowed to talk about illegal immigration according to the overseers of all that is correct?



    What do you have against those desperate people in aid camps?

    A lot of questions there which might be to difficult to you to answer....
     
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  18. parklane1

    parklane1 Gary Stevens

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    Be careful mate other wise you will have some calling you a racist, probably the same blinkered souls who suggested that those who voted for Brexit are all racist.
     
  19. Parklaner81

    Parklaner81 Steve Hodge

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    To whom are you referring, and what have they done in your opinion that makes them bullies?
     
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  20. Glenda's Legs

    Glenda's Legs Steve Carr

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    I've been mulling over your suggestion of helping those from refugee camps and I do think it is something we should be doing but just as one strand of our refugee policy. It does though have a bit of a feel of picking people to play on your team at school and leaves a lot of people behind, and it doesn't feel right (to me) that this should be only way that asylum can be sought. Meaning people have to try to make their own way which leads to dangerous sea crossings etc.

    The other thing that came to mind in my mulling is that refugee camps are for people who have been displaced by war/conflict. But there are other categories of people who have need to seek asylum - e.g. activists who are under threat of death or torture in authoritarian regimes as one example; women who are living in forced marriages or who are at risk because of their attempts to establish/protect other women as another; minorities who are persecuted but not necessarily in a war situation as a third. There needs to be a route for them to escape and find safety elsewhere. So that's why I do think we need a flexible approach in our policy.

    You have also mentioned a few times that a genuine refugee would be happy to settle in the first safe country they come to and I am sure that would be the case if that were their only option. But, given that under international law they have the choice of where to apply for asylum (and applying doesn't automatically mean they get accepted) then it does seem logical that some might opt for a country where they know the language, or where they maybe have family or acquaintances who have escaped ahead of them.
    Whether one thinks they should have to seek asylum in the first safe country is a different thing to whether they actually have to do so by law.
    The only way to change that is for the UK to withdraw from the Geneva Convention for Refugees or whatever the agreement is. I have no idea what the actual implications of doing that would be - apparently no signed-up country has ever done that. I also wouldn't trust a Conservative government to have something suitable in place as an alternative. (I say a Conservative government because I couldn't envisage a Labour or Liberal government ever even contemplating withdrawing from the convention).

    Just to be clear, I certainly don't think you or others in this debate (on here) are racist in your views on this but I do think it is wrong to assume that anyone who travels across the channel must be trying to get here for solely economic reasons because they have chosen to continue their journey to here rather than settle elsewhere.

    I do also think encouraging a song-and-dance about "illegal migrants" helps the government detract attention from other things they are doing badly, but that may just be my political bias coming through.
     

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