*** OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v Chelscum ***

[FolkestoneSpur]

And it’s especially powerful in an age where social media allows people to operate 24/7 in an echo chamber that cannot be penetrated by facts or common sense.

This 100%
I have friends who live almost entirely within an online echo chamber and are convinced the whole world has the same views they do.
And if somebody does voice a different view they're sheep.

 

[Lilbaz]

This 100%
I have friends who live almost entirely within an online echo chamber and are convinced the whole world has the same views they do.
And if somebody does voice a different view they're sheep.

Pornhub?

 

[Bullet]

Do they? From where do you get this ‘fact’?

I suspect with Gutterboy it's the Dunning-Kruger effect

https://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/here...s-if-someone-isnt-as-smart-as-they-think.html

Wildly overestimating my knowledge made me a D-K.

We all know people who do the same. They take a position and then proclaim and bluster and pontificate while totally disregarding differing opinions or points of view. They know they're right -- and they want you to know they're right.

Their behavior isn't an indication of intelligence, though. It's the classic sign of a D-K.

 

[glasgowspur]

I'm not particularly being reactionary about it. My view is just that it needs nuance. Rent boy isn't a homophobic term, apart from to individuals who associate all male sex workers as being homosexual, which really isn't the case.

It should be an opportunity to educate people about where the line is, and why things fall either side of that line.

An example of nuance:
- Calling New Zealanders 'Kiwis' - acceptable
- Calling Islanders in New Zealand 'Coconuts' - absolutely not acceptable
Both are just fruits, but you need nuance and context

Using that nuance, I would in contrast come down very hard on any chanting against Brighton that has a sexuality angle

I do love the irony that your example is fruits, a word that was widely used for homosexuals.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm not particularly being reactionary about it. My view is just that it needs nuance. Rent boy isn't a homophobic term, apart from to individuals who associate all male sex workers as being homosexual, which really isn't the case.

It should be an opportunity to educate people about where the line is, and why things fall either side of that line.

An example of nuance:
- Calling New Zealanders 'Kiwis' - acceptable
- Calling Islanders in New Zealand 'Coconuts' - absolutely not acceptable
Both are just fruits, but you need nuance and context

Using that nuance, I would in contrast come down very hard on any chanting against Brighton that has a sexuality angle

I think -first and foremost- you need to be a New Zealander to ev en fudging comment on what is, or isn't, offensive in, or out of, context.

Do you genuinely think anyone sings the 'rent boys' song with any intention other than to infer/besmirch homosexuality?

I have sung some songs in my time, but I have also got older, wiser and realized that perhaps we can avoid things like the Wenger song and still manage to enjoy a sing-song at our rivals expense.

FWIW I also have issues with the Alonso song.

 

[thfcsteff]

It's the modern snowflake society, whatever is said people will find offence, imagine what it will be like in 25 years !!

The biggest snowflakes are the poor lambs that cannot find things other than race and sexuality to sing about Poor babies. How will they handle life on the terraces...

 

[thfcsteff]

It's because it's stirring up tension where there was none to begin with. Racism in British football had largely disappeared until a few years ago, but when people see over-zealously, it tends to motivate them to push back. I'm sure most people who boo the knee now were appalled by what happens to our black players in games in eastern europe, but now the conflict about it has served to radicalise them onto the other side.

Whilst still ignoring the fact it has never really gone away here.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Maybe I’m a bit woke… maybe I’m an idiot…. I’m not sure TBH
But I have a philosophy that if you say something that offends someone, by it’s very nature it’s offensive
I’m not gay so can’t comment on what that’s like
I’m not Jewish so agin can’t comment on what that’s like
I’m not black … again I can’t comment
I’m a 45 year old, reasonably well off man so actually I’m lucky. But of course the flip side of that is that it’s my duty to educate my children on the right things to do for their world. Similarly if I see someone is hurt from someone else’s actions… I believe I should, like others, help that person
It’s a small world and one that gets smaller by the day. It means we have many people crossing many paths in ways and places they sometimes would choose not to. Who are we all to judge?!?!
We can chose to be ignorant arseholes or accept the world changes, mostly for the better

 

[Lilbaz]

Maybe I’m a bit woke… maybe I’m an idiot…. I’m not sure TBH
But I have a philosophy that if you say something that offends someone, by it’s very nature it’s offensive
I’m not gay so can’t comment on what that’s like
I’m not Jewish so agin can’t comment on what that’s like
I’m not black … again I can’t comment
I’m a 45 year old, reasonably well off man so actually I’m lucky. But of course the flip side of that is that it’s my duty to educate my children on the right things to do for their world. Similarly if I see someone is hurt from someone else’s actions… I believe I should, like others, help that person
It’s a small world and one that gets smaller by the day. It means we have many people crossing many paths in ways and places they sometimes would choose not to. Who are we all to judge?!?!
We can chose to be ignorant arseholes or accept the world changes, mostly for the better

Well said. Beautiful. We all want an inclusive world. Everyone deserves love and happiness if they can find it.

But taking the tinkle out of chelsea fans because their top head hunter, ultimate toxic masclinity, rip your head off idiot and turning their own call to war and violence on it's head, for many is still fun. Even decades later.

Everyone has a right to be offended. Everyone else has the right to not give a fudge.

 

[Lilbaz]

We could have a family and easily offended area at the stadium? Maybe a safe space for people to go if something upset them during the game. A cuddly toy or two.

Maybe sound proofing, ear plugs or blindfolds so they can't see the brick on the pitch?

 

[Lilbaz]

Full bigot mode.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Well said. Beautiful. We all want an inclusive world. Everyone deserves love and happiness if they can find it.

But taking the tinkle out of chelsea fans because their top head hunter, ultimate toxic masclinity, rip your head off idiot and turning their own call to war and violence on it's head, for many is still fun. Even decades later.

Everyone has a right to be offended. Everyone else has the right to not give a fudge.

I agree
That’s what’s makes us all different.
I mean I’ve seen Chelsea fans be racist, anti Semitic, and sexist too… I’ve seen Spurs fans do similar things. The weird thing though is most wouldn’t behave the way they do in A football crowd if they were on their own, or sober, or poet tiall6 with their wives/husbands/partners or in front of their kids

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We could have a family and easily offended area at the stadium? Maybe a safe space for people to go if something upset them during the game. A cuddly toy or two.

Maybe sound proofing, ear plugs or blindfolds so they can't see the brick on the pitch?

M6 kids are well educated that what the6 hear at football they can’t repeat at school
My daughter was at the West Ham game and saw the fighting kick off. I could see it was gonna happen so I took us back off the path and we stood where the bike shelter is opposite the shop, finishing our food.
My 16 year old nephew was genuinely intrigued by it all and noticed the flat caps and old men…
My 20 year old nephew just laughed it off as he had seen it before
My 8 year old was kinda confused as to why they were fighting and why they were the “enemy” to use my words. It’s hard to explain to a kid who of that age and doesn’t get football or rivalry’s of course. But she did ask what was a pikey, what was a yid and also why did those men smell…. Interesting observations I guess

 

[Lilbaz]

I agree
That’s what’s makes us all different.
I mean I’ve seen Chelsea fans be racist, anti Semitic, and sexist too… I’ve seen Spurs fans do similar things. The weird thing though is most wouldn’t behave the way they do in A football crowd if they were on their own, or sober, or poet tiall6 with their wives/husbands/partners or in front of their kids

True. Alcohol, drugs, a mob, we get carried away.

But i've never been nasty to someone (at least since i've matured). Never been a bully.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

True. Alcohol, drugs, a mob, we get carried away.

But i've never been nasty to someone (at least since i've matured). Never been a bully.

I’ve been a prick many times… and I did t realise some of the time
But I do believe I’ve got better and not being that person as I’ve got older
It’s what we do.. until we get old and anything goes again

 

[Lilbaz]

M6 kids are well educated that what the6 hear at football they can’t repeat at school
My daughter was at the West Ham game and saw the fighting kick off. I could see it was gonna happen so I took us back off the path and we stood where the bike shelter is opposite the shop, finishing our food.
My 16 year old nephew was genuinely intrigued by it all and noticed the flat caps and old men…
My 20 year old nephew just laughed it off as he had seen it before
My 8 year old was kinda confused as to why they were fighting and why they were the “enemy” to use my words. It’s hard to explain to a kid who of that age and doesn’t get football or rivalry’s of course. But she did ask what was a pikey, what was a yid and also why did those men smell…. Interesting observations I guess

It's life. The chant is brick. And people are arseholes sometimes.

I get the club calling for it stopped, but it aint happening. People don't like being told what to do.

But being offended? Over something not aimed at you? You're at an away game at chelsea. It's not going to be tea and buscuits.

 

[FolkestoneSpur]

Pornhub?

Ha ha, no that's me!

 

[DaveT316]

I think -first and foremost- you need to be a New Zealander to ev en fudging comment on what is, or isn't, offensive in, or out of, context.

Do you genuinely think anyone sings the 'rent boys' song with any intention other than to infer/besmirch homosexuality?

I have sung some songs in my time, but I have also got older, wiser and realized that perhaps we can avoid things like the Wenger song and still manage to enjoy a sing-song at our rivals expense.

FWIW I also have issues with the Alonso song.

100% on the older and wiser bit. Now, 38, I feel ashamed to have sung that Campbell song and hand wave it away at the time, line by line, as not being completely and utterly abhorrent.

I was contemplating the Alonso baiting this week too and similarly came to the conclusion it’s not on. Call me a ‘snowflake’ or ‘woke’ on all of the above, I believe it’s just human decency.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Main reason I don't like the Alonso chanting, is it makes him want to play better.

 

[glasgowspur]

I agree
That’s what’s makes us all different.
I mean I’ve seen Chelsea fans be racist, anti Semitic, and sexist too… I’ve seen Spurs fans do similar things. The weird thing though is most wouldn’t behave the way they do in A football crowd if they were on their own, or sober, or poet tiall6 with their wives/husbands/partners or in front of their kids

We call it the "90 minute bigot".
I know loads of people who go to old firm games and spew out their hatred to the opposition, and then meet up with their mates from the other end the ground for a drinking "sess".
And that would be ok if it wasn't for the fact those 90 min bigots not only enable the real nasty bigots, they give them cover to hide under.