OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Burnley

[metalgear]

Yes would love to see Scarlett for Kane and Sanchez for Dier in a run of games. I'm confident they both will transform our attack with a higher line and speed.

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[Finney Is Back]

With Skipp, why would we want him? We do need another midfielder, but someone with technique and passing ability. Phillips is a little light on technical skill for me.

Managed to watch the first half (only the streaming site didn't have the second!).

Moura changed the game for us. Played more central than Gil and opened up what was a pretty stale game until then. But the most pleasing part of the match was seeing Royal show confidence and pomp! He started to enjoy himself, and showed he could be an exceptional fullback. Strong defensively, comfortable on the ball, and able to attack. Early days still.

Royal's performance illustrates how important momentum and playing regular games is. Credit to Nuno for not rotating in Tanganga, though harsh on him as he deserves games himself.

All the hoopla over the summer has to affect Kane. I think it would anyone. Kane needs to get back in the zone, which always takes him a while anyway. This season he's had a disrupted preseason and a saga to unbalance his focus. If Scarlett had put in the same performance the likes of @Bishop would be out slating the club and bemoaning our lack of talent. I actually think Scarlett just needs his confidence boosting. He needs backing from fans and to be celebrated. At 17 he's more than holding his own, and he has earned the right to be back up - despite what the naysayers say and post. Never easy when you don't have a run of games and your playing in a disjointed side, but the kid has done well.

Bergwijn...Confidence is a big thing for any player. With Bergwijn it seems everything. He's not delivering what he is capable of. A good manager should be able to eek more from him, but 3 have had similar results. Another who needs building up - needs to believe in themselves. His head goes down (internally) far too easily.

On a positive: I really like the way Sanchez passes the ball on the deck. Must be an Ajax thing. His passing is fast, crisp and easy to control. We need more crisp passing. I thought we were better with passing today, but still more to come.

Phillips is considerably better technically than both Skipp and Hojbjerg. He was a number 10 until Biesla converted him to play deeper when he arrived at Leeds. I suspect he will be going on to bigger and better things than us anyway. Both Liverpool and Man Utd want him apparently so unfortunately that ship has sailed for us.

Regarding Scarlett, he isn't 'holding his own' at all. He us putting in weak performances that make it abundantly clear that even Europa Minnows Bowl football is too high a level for him at the moment. Under 23 football would be good for him at the moment as even that is probably a stretch level for him. A club like the one we both support cannot exit January without bringing in a proper backup/rotation option for number 9.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Phillips is considerably better technically than both Skipp and Hojbjerg. He was a number 10 until Biesla converted him to play deeper when he arrived at Leeds. I suspect he will be going on to bigger and better things than us anyway. Both Liverpool and Man Utd want him apparently so unfortunately that ship has sailed for us.

Regarding Scarlett, he isn't 'holding his own' at all. He us putting in weak performances that make it abundantly clear that even Europa Minnows Bowl football is too high a level for him at the moment. Under 23 football would be good for him at the moment as even that is probably a stretch level for him. A club like the one we both support cannot exit January without bringing in a proper backup/rotation option for number 9.

i don’t share your exalted opinion of Philips. Hard working, physical, competent. Watching him at the Euros it was clear where England lacked a little spark. He’s a fantastic defensive screening player. But we have two in that mould already.

You need to give new players some space and time. Playing in a disjointed team Scarlett did okay. He didn’t miss any openings and the level of opposition hasn’t really been much different to the Europa in the early rounds. I’m chuffed that a 17 year old with massive promise is doing well. Imagine Scarlett turned in the performance Kane did against Burnley - shanking shots wide, volleying way over the bar…Scarlett just need service and support so he develops; not writing off by so called fans who have no patience or belief.

 

[Finney Is Back]

i don’t share your exalted opinion of Philips. Hard working, physical, competent. Watching him at the Euros it was clear where England lacked a little spark. He’s a fantastic defensive screening player. But we have two in that mould already.

You need to give new players some space and time. Playing in a disjointed team Scarlett did okay. He didn’t miss any openings and the level of opposition hasn’t really been much different to the Europa in the early rounds. I’m chuffed that a 17 year old with massive promise is doing well. Imagine Scarlett turned in the performance Kane did against Burnley - shanking shots wide,volleying way over the bar…Scarlett just need service and support so he develops; not writing off by so called fans who have no patience or belief.

It is impossible for a player to miss openings when they don't get into any positions to get an opening which is what is happening with Scarlett right now. If you won't listen to me then listen to @parklane1 who has been in youth coaching for many years.

Scarlett plays well for our age group teams (I have seen him do so and been impressed with him). He is absolutely lost when playing first team football. I actually can't really think of a single good piece of play from him in his first team appearances this season?

 

[Bishop]

Scarlett turned in the performance Kane did against Burnley - shanking shots wide, volleying way over the bar…Scarlett just need service and support so he develops; not writing off by so called fans who have no patience or belief.

If Scarlett had, had a performance of this level I would be quietly impressed and hopeful for more. Missing chances would indicate that he was getting into good positions, had timed his runs well etc.

You don't seem to be reading anything people are actually saying instead going off on your own tangent. We aren't writing him off, we are saying he isn't ready yet and a more appropriate level of player is needed for the role of backup striker.

Scarlett should be the 3rd option coming on for useful minutes when his confidence can be maximised. Not drowning in low quality games against low quality opposition barely touching the ball and having the whole pressure of the team scoring on his shoulders.

 

[SpurMeUp]

If Scarlett had, had a performance of this level I would be quietly impressed and hopeful for more. Missing chances would indicate that he was getting into good positions, had timed his runs well etc.

You don't seem to be reading anything people are actually saying instead going off on your own tangent. We aren't writing him off, we are saying he isn't ready yet and a more appropriate level of player is needed for the role of backup striker.

Scarlett should be the 3rd option coming on for useful minutes when his confidence can be maximised. Not drowning in low quality games against low quality opposition barely touching the ball and having the whole pressure of the team scoring on his shoulders.

Somehow I doubt you would be cutting Scarlett any slack for missing chances like Kane just did. Itd be “Clearly not ready” “club left us short”etc etc The lad has played in sides that have no rhythm or consistency. Much more senior players looked similar or worse in the very same game. Yet you write off a guy making his debut games - primarily as a way to bemoan the club. Scarlett is 3rd choice behind Kane and Son so not sure of your logic. And we should be proud that we’re giving him chances to play. Play he has - on merit because of what he’s done in youth games and training.he’s not disgraced himself at all, just needs more games and …support.

 

[FolkestoneSpur]

3 years after I was first banging on about the fact that we should be in for him, Kalvin Phillips would still be a great option for our midfield two.

I intially read that as Kevin Phillips!!

 

[thfcsteff]

Somehow I doubt you would be cutting Scarlett any slack for missing chances like Kane just did. Itd be “Clearly not ready” “club left us short”etc etc The lad has played in sides that have no rhythm or consistency. Much more senior players looked similar or worse in the very same game. Yet you write off a guy making his debut games - primarily as a way to bemoan the club. Scarlett is 3rd choice behind Kane and Son so not sure of your logic. And we should be proud that we’re giving him chances to play. Play he has - on merit because of what he’s done in youth games and training.he’s not disgraced himself at all, just needs more games and …support.

He is only getting the chances because we are forced to. In fact, the youth striker who makes more sense right now in terms of development is Parrott, and if we are not going to buy in the window we'd do well to recall him and give Dan a loan spell where he can get games under his belt away from the glare and pressure of this club right now.

 

[SpurMeUp]

He is only getting the chances because we are forced to. In fact, the youth striker who makes more sense right now in terms of development is Parrott, and if we are not going to buy in the window we'd do well to recall him and give Dan a loan spell where he can get games under his belt away from the glare and pressure of this club right now.

I am not sure you've seen enough of Scarlett to know this? What else would you be basing this opinion on? What we know is that professionals who work with Scarlett within Spurs have been mighty impressed with him. Mourinho when moved on in another job said he'd be in the England team in a couple of years, an odd thing to say about a former player unless he really believes it. Nuno and his team of experienced coaches have seen what the lad is capable of and believe in him clearly. So why buy a Janssen type 3rd choice, when we could give minutes to Scarlett? That is what the club have done. It is the right thing to do, its just the anti-Levy fans who have not given the lad a fair crack because it suits their agenda to have something to moan about. When actually its an example of why Spurs is one of the very best clubs to be at as a youth player.

 

[Bishop]

Somehow I doubt you would be cutting Scarlett any slack for missing chances like Kane just did. Itd be “Clearly not ready” “club left us short”etc etc The lad has played in sides that have no rhythm or consistency. Much more senior players looked similar or worse in the very same game. Yet you write off a guy making his debut games - primarily as a way to bemoan the club. Scarlett is 3rd choice behind Kane and Son so not sure of your logic. And we should be proud that we’re giving him chances to play. Play he has - on merit because of what he’s done in youth games and training.he’s not disgraced himself at all, just needs more games and …support.

This is why I say you're off in your own fantasy world. I just told you my thoughts and how I would feel and you are telling me I would feel different. Who are you to tell me how i think and feel about things? [emoji1787]

Listen mate I was very positive about Vinnie a player who roughly played to the level you mentioned. I was positive of Janssen as well, I'm even positive about Scarlett but he's just clearly nowhere near ready.

Tottenham isn't a creche it's a professional football team trying to win games, the way to do that is to have appropriate players available. I'm a big supporter of Skipp and Tangana who I believe should be starting games (Tang at CB) because they've earned the right and proven their quality. Scarlett is not that. I'm astounded you think he's playing well when hes barely touched a ball and has had negative goal threat. Or how you can think that is good for his development? Do you think he enjoys these matches where he basically 0 touches of the ball? Where he's never even had a shot off target because he can get nowhere near the ball? You think he comes off the pitch happy with the performances he's been putting in? [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

 

[Finney Is Back]

Somehow I doubt you would be cutting Scarlett any slack for missing chances like Kane just did. Itd be “Clearly not ready” “club left us short”etc etc The lad has played in sides that have no rhythm or consistency. Much more senior players looked similar or worse in the very same game. Yet you write off a guy making his debut games - primarily as a way to bemoan the club. Scarlett is 3rd choice behind Kane and Son so not sure of your logic. And we should be proud that we’re giving him chances to play. Play he has - on merit because of what he’s done in youth games and training.he’s not disgraced himself at all, just needs more games and …support.

Until now we have no idea whether or not anyone would cut him slack for missing chances because he isn't getting goal scoring chances as he isn't yet good enough to play at this level. A young player getting (and missing) goalscoring chances is an indication that a player is close to being ready and just needs to hone his finishing technique against superior keepers at mens level. I can remember when Lampard first came through at West Ham, a few of my friends who supported West Ham saying he was only playing because of his Dad and uncle and was rubbish as he kept on missing chances. I said he was a brilliant young player who would become absolute top class as very few teenagers can get themselves into a position to miss multiple chances in a game.

You keep on ignoring my point that @parklane1, who does the very opposite of bemoaning the club AND has been involved in youth coaching for many years also states that it is evident that Scarlett is not ready but you also choose to ignore this. You are right that Dane needs more games, just wrong at the level he needs them at. His development would be perfectly served at under 23 level right (and even that level would still be stretching him).

 

[Finney Is Back]

I am not sure you've seen enough of Scarlett to know this? What else would you be basing this opinion on? What we know is that professionals who work with Scarlett within Spurs have been mighty impressed with him. Mourinho when moved on in another job said he'd be in the England team in a couple of years, an odd thing to say about a former player unless he really believes it. Nuno and his team of experienced coaches have seen what the lad is capable of and believe in him clearly. So why buy a Janssen type 3rd choice, when we could give minutes to Scarlett? That is what the club have done. It is the right thing to do, its just the anti-Levy fans who have not given the lad a fair crack because it suits their agenda to have something to moan about. When actually its an example of why Spurs is one of the very best clubs to be at as a youth player.

In that case I'm not sure that you have seen enough of Scarlett to be able to hold your view either?

Those of us on here who don't think he should be playing first team football are also impressed with him. He is a good 17 year old prospect. He is not Wayne Rooney however.

Why do you keep on banging on that our alternative for Harry Kane has to be a Janssen type? Why can't it be a Danny Ings type for example? Or a Patson Dakka type? Or an Edouard type? I'm always wary when a person needs to pick somebody who failed as their yardstick.

As I keep on saying (and you keep on choosing to ignore) it is not just the anti-Levy fans who are saying this. @parklane1 has said the same thing and from what I have been able to tell on here he is an optimistic fan who seems to be very pro Levy.

I know you take every criticism of anything that Spurs do as a personal attack on Daniel Levy that you feel you have to step in on his behalf to defend, but that really isn't the case here. I don't hold Daniel Levy responsible for us having no adequate competition/cover for Kane. We have a Director of Football in place and he should've been able to secure somebody at least half reasonable on a loan deal.

 

[SpurMeUp]

In that case I'm not sure that you have seen enough of Scarlett to be able to hold your view either?

Those of us on here who don't think he should be playing first team football are also impressed with him. He is a good 17 year old prospect. He is not Wayne Rooney however.

Why do you keep on banging on that our alternative for Harry Kane has to be a Janssen type? Why can't it be a Danny Ings type for example? Or a Patson Dakka type? Or an Edouard type? I'm always wary when a person needs to pick somebody who failed as their yardstick.

As I keep on say (and you keep on choosing to ignore) it is not just the anti-Levy fans who are saying this. @statlover1 has said the same thing and from what I have been able to tell on here he is an optmistic fan who seems to be very pro Levy).

I know you take every criticism of anything that Spurs do as a personal attack on Daniel Levy that you feel you have to step in on his behalf to defend, but that really isn't the case here. I don't hold Daniel Levy responsible for us having no adequate competition/cover for Kane. We have a Director of Football in place and he should've been able to secure somebody at least half reasonable on a loan deal.

Re. my views on Scarlett they are based upon what I've seen in pre-season (as well as the euro games where we looked disjointed but he was ok), but also trusting the club and people like Mourinho who have seen him perform far more than us. As Scarlett has done nothing wrong, I am not passing judgment that he "isn't good enough" as you are.

Re. why not an Ings etc I would suggest these players are on hefty wages. 150k a week maybe? Idk. I am sure that if there were high quality forwards available without spending a lot of money, we'd be all over it. If we are spending significant sums it impacts on other transfer business. And you can see why recruiting for the first team is a priority right?

Re. @parklane1 I have a soft spot for him, but it doesn't change the reality as outlined, that promising players need competitive games. It is why Snacho went to Germany and why we're an attractive club for youth players. Something to celbrate rather than moan about.

Re. the club, there are a host of experienced coaches, the DoF as you outline, others like Mourinho going public on Scarlett, I guess you have no regard for their decisions and faith in the kid?

 

[SpurMeUp]

This is why I say you're off in your own fantasy world. I just told you my thoughts and how I would feel and you are telling me I would feel different. Who are you to tell me how i think and feel about things? [emoji1787]

Listen mate I was very positive about Vinnie a player who roughly played to the level you mentioned. I was positive of Janssen as well, I'm even positive about Scarlett but he's just clearly nowhere near ready.

Tottenham isn't a creche it's a professional football team trying to win games, the way to do that is to have appropriate players available. I'm a big supporter of Skipp and Tangana who I believe should be starting games (Tang at CB) because they've earned the right and proven their quality. Scarlett is not that. I'm astounded you think he's playing well when hes barely touched a ball and has had negative goal threat. Or how you can think that is good for his development? Do you think he enjoys these matches where he basically 0 touches of the ball? Where he's never even had a shot off target because he can get nowhere near the ball? You think he comes off the pitch happy with the performances he's been putting in? [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

So you back two failures in Vini and Janssen but find it hard to suspend your judgment for a promising 17 year old who hardly had a chance to show what he can do. Each to their own.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Until now we have no idea whether or not anyone would cut him slack for missing chances because he isn't getting goal scoring chances as he isn't yet good enough to play at this level. A young player getting (and missing) goalscoring chances is an indication that a player is close to being ready and just needs to hone his finishing technique against superior keepers at mens level. I can remember when Lampard first came through at West Ham, a few of my friends who supported West Ham saying he was only playing because of his Dad and uncle and rubbish as he kept on missing chances. I said he is a brilliant player who will become absolute top class as very few teenagers can get themselves into a position to miss multiple chances in a game.

You keep on ignoring my point that @statlover1, who does the very opposite of bemoaning the club AND has been involved in youth coaching for many years also states that it is evident that Scarlett is not ready but you also choose to ignore this. You are right that Dane needs more games, just wrong at the level he needs them at. His development would be perfectly served at under 23 level right (and even that level would still be stretching him).

we kinda do have an idea as to who would cut Scarlett some slack as there are those who are not now. Simple really.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Same old story with Scarlett, performs well at age level football and there is a massive over reaction to his ability with many who have never seen him play calling for him to play in first team. He looks a great prospect and his development needs to be managed carefully, throwing in him in a team which has not yet settled and to replace the best goal scorer in the league is ridiculous. Give him time.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I intially read that as Kevin Phillips!!

Another player we missed out on back in the day.....

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re. my views on Scarlett they are based upon what I've seen in pre-season (as well as the euro games where we looked disjointed but he was ok), but also trusting the club and people like Mourinho who have seen him perform far more than us. As Scarlett has done nothing wrong, I am not passing judgment that he "isn't good enough" as you are.

Re. why not an Ings etc I would suggest these players are on hefty wages. 150k a week maybe? Idk. I am sure that if there were high quality forwards available without spending a lot of money, we'd be all over it. If we are spending significant sums it impacts on other transfer business. And you can see why recruiting for the first team is a priority right?

Re. @statlover1 I have a soft spot for him, but it doesn't change the reality as outlined, that promising players need competitive games. It is why Snacho went to Germany and why we're an attractive club for youth players. Something to celbrate rather than moan about.

Re. the club, there are a host of experienced coaches, the DoF as you outline, others like Mourinho going public on Scarlett, I guess you have no regard for their decisions and faith in the kid?

Pre-season games are played at a lower level of intensity than under 23 football. The younger players often look the best players because the pros are playing at 25%

In the Euro games he has looked poor, perhaps even very poor... pretty much completely anonymous.

Yes, that's right. Good players get paid high wages. If you don't pay high wages then you won't have a squad of good players. THFC have one of the lowest, if not the lowest wage to turnover rate in the country. We have the room on the wage bill to have good players and not have to rely on 17 year olds who aren't ready to give our first choice player a rest.

The fact that Nuno played Kane in a second rate competition earlier this week tells me quite a lot about Scarlett (i.e. that he also doesn't think he is ready). Him swapping out Scarlett for Kane in the home game against Mura when it got a bit squeaky bum time when they came back to 2-1 also shows this. Scarlett is playing because we need to give Kane some games off and have nobody else (unless we also want to overplay Son). As soon as we actually need to win a game he won't be anywhere near the team.

 

[Finney Is Back]

we kinda do have an idea as to who would cut Scarlett some slack as there are those who are not now. Simple really.

"cutting Scarlett any slack for missing chances like Kane just did." Was the sentence.... Don't try to rewrite it.

If Scarlett was missing chances I would be happy.... He would be showing he was good enough to be getting a chance for the first team.

Scarlett isn't getting 'cut any slack' from a few on here because he is playing first team football for Spurs and not having any positive impact. Even despite clearly being out of his depth, Scarlett is not getting pelters from the fans at all, I've been at the games and the fans want him to succeed. The fact he is 17 and not ready but having to play due to a lack of options is not his fault. I think all of the fans understand that perfectly.

 

[thfcsteff]

I am not sure you've seen enough of Scarlett to know this? What else would you be basing this opinion on? What we know is that professionals who work with Scarlett within Spurs have been mighty impressed with him. Mourinho when moved on in another job said he'd be in the England team in a couple of years, an odd thing to say about a former player unless he really believes it. Nuno and his team of experienced coaches have seen what the lad is capable of and believe in him clearly. So why buy a Janssen type 3rd choice, when we could give minutes to Scarlett? That is what the club have done. It is the right thing to do, its just the anti-Levy fans who have not given the lad a fair crack because it suits their agenda to have something to moan about. When actually its an example of why Spurs is one of the very best clubs to be at as a youth player.

The environment a great talent plays in as a youth is vital.
We nearly fudged it with Parrott TBH.
Right now it is a tough ask for any young player coming in and being asked to do a job.

At 17, Kane was leaden and did not look sharp. Loans built him.

Rooney is one of the only teenagers I ever witnessed roar through at 17 (I saw his full debut) and he was a physical freak/anomalie. I also think had he tried to do that in this social media-public critic-centric environment, he might well have not made it.

IF we really believe in Scarlett, we need to protect and develop him. IMO. And again, I would be looking for a short term experienced striker. Everyone laughed at Llorente and questioned his worth, but he was the consistent factor in our CL Final run.