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OMT *** Spurs vs Bin Dippers ***

i did admire the commitment and determination to get tight with spurs players in crucial parts of the game. kot only did were they more combative in 1 on 1 situations, even if they were losing the battle they going to ground around the feet of our players to nullify any advantage we'd won. one of these unfortunately led to Kane's ankle injury. This is the "professional foul" adapted for the modern game.20210131_195615.jpeg20210131_195456.jpeg20210131_195200.jpeg

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metalgear said:
i did admire the commitment and determination to get tight with spurs players in crucial parts of the game. kot only did were they more combative in 1 on 1 situations, even if they were losing the battle they going to ground around the feet of our players to nullify any advantage we'd won. one of these unfortunately led to Kane's ankle injury. This is the "professional foul" adapted for the modern game.View attachment 10821View attachment 10822View attachment 10823

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Kane gets slagged off everywhere (the guardian minute by minute for the Manure Goon game said he’d invented it) for making a back for opponents like he did against Brighton at home, yet every game he (and other forwards) have to cope with many more challenges that can and do lead to injury.
 
Just watched that first goal back again. My thoughts on it. The goal is caused by people not knowing what they should be doing.

Firstly, Kane can't press Henderson which leaves that donkey with time and space to do what he likes. Aurier clearly says to Rodon to pick up Mane and Rodon doesn't do it. Firstly, Serge shouldn't hand him off because the man wide on the left that Serge is going to take is no threat, Bergwijn can cover him and the ball is never going in the direction that Serge is covering. Rodon should do better to pick up Mane's run. He got the shout. For me, I don't blame Dier, he plays that ball and he massively risks an own goal. Hugo can see in front of him, he can use his hands and the ball is close. He should take it. Davies as well is at fault for not stepping up.

So you have Serge making a bad decision, Rodon not taking Mane, Hugo and Dier getting mixed up and Davies playing them onside. It all points to me to a defensive unit that doesn't know what they are doing in an unfamiliar system that's never been played before with those players. There's one man that should take most responsibility for that and he wasn't any of the ones on the pitch.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Just watched that first goal back again. My thoughts on it. The goal is caused by people not knowing what they should be doing.

Firstly, Kane can't press Henderson which leaves that donkey with time and space to do what he likes. Aurier clearly says to Rodon to pick up Mane and Rodon doesn't do it. Firstly, Serge shouldn't hand him off because the man wide on the left that Serge is going to take is no threat, Bergwijn can cover him and the ball is never going in the direction that Serge is covering. Rodon should do better to pick up Mane's run. He got the shout. For me, I don't blame Dier, he plays that ball and he massively risks an own goal. Hugo can see in front of him, he can use his hands and the ball is close. He should take it. Davies as well is at fault for not stepping up.

So you have Serge making a bad decision, Rodon not taking Mane, Hugo and Dier getting mixed up and Davies playing them onside. It all points to me to a defensive unit that doesn't know what they are doing in an unfamiliar system that's never been played before with those players. There's one man that should take most responsibility for that and he wasn't any of the ones on the pitch.
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why can’t Kane press Henderson?
 
Baleforce said:
right, fair enough, should have been taken off then imo
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In hindsight he should because that was the first problem leading to that goal. In Jose's defence on that one, I'm sure he's just hoping to get Harry to half time and see if we can patch him up for the second half. And despite some of the ludicrous claims on here questioning Kane's commitment to us, he just wants to play if he can. I can understand how it came about that he was still on the pitch but it proved costly.
 
DeanoAustin said:
In hindsight he should because that was the first problem leading to that goal. In Jose's defence on that one, I'm sure he's just hoping to get Harry to half time and see if we can patch him up for the second half. And despite some of the ludicrous claims on here questioning Kane's commitment to us, he just wants to play if he can. I can understand how it came about that he was still on the pitch but it proved costly.
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that's the kind of mistake Jose didn't used to make, we've spursified him

remember that game under Jol where we were pasting his Chelsea side, he made all 3 changes after about 25 mins and turned it around
 
Baleforce said:
that's the kind of mistake Jose didn't used to make, we've spursified him

remember that game under Jol where we were pasting his Chelsea side, he made all 3 changes after about 25 mins and turned it around
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I think that's my biggest disappointment with him. He seems completely unable to change a game at the moment and it's something he used to do regularly. He has good players on the bench and yet he never seems to use them in a way that swings a game in our favour. And that hints at a bigger problem for me...

My belief is that with Klopp, Poch and Pep - they have a style that they take into a game. They know how they are going to play. With us, I get the sense that Jose wants to adapt his team to disrupt the opposition's style. Which means we have no identity of our own - we're just anti-opposition. Jose's ego is so big, IMO, he thinks that he can out think any other manager and his adapted tactics for each game will win the game. His players are just pawns in that game. But he's increasingly showing that he can't change a game and his plans to disrupt the opposition are doing no such thing. They are just resulting in us being pinned back, without the ball and without any real idea how to win.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I think that's my biggest disappointment with him. He seems completely unable to change a game at the moment and it's something he used to do regularly. He has good players on the bench and yet he never seems to use them in a way that swings a game in our favour. And that hints at a bigger problem for me...

My belief is that with Klopp, Poch and Pep - they have a style that they take into a game. They know how they are going to play. With us, I get the sense that Jose wants to adapt his team to disrupt the opposition's style. Which means we have no identity of our own - we're just anti-opposition. Jose's ego is so big, IMO, he thinks that he can out think any other manager and his adapted tactics for each game will win the game. His players are just pawns in that game. But he's increasingly showing that he can't change a game and his plans to disrupt the opposition are doing no such thing. They are just resulting in us being pinned back, without the ball and without any real idea how to win.
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I thought the least we would get would be an eradication of basic errors and a reduction in performance variance.

That’s what he did at Porto/Chelsea/Inter
 
Baleforce said:
I thought the least we would get would be an eradication of basic errors and a reduction in performance variance.

That’s what he did at Porto/Chelsea/Inter
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I assume Mou Mou tells the players to be super serious, no mistakes, ultimate concentration, death stare... and top players can do that but our lot shrivel and worry about it and end up shrinking back and making basic errors due to fear
 
DeanoAustin said:
I think that's my biggest disappointment with him. He seems completely unable to change a game at the moment and it's something he used to do regularly. He has good players on the bench and yet he never seems to use them in a way that swings a game in our favour. And that hints at a bigger problem for me...

My belief is that with Klopp, Poch and Pep - they have a style that they take into a game. They know how they are going to play. With us, I get the sense that Jose wants to adapt his team to disrupt the opposition's style. Which means we have no identity of our own - we're just anti-opposition. Jose's ego is so big, IMO, he thinks that he can out think any other manager and his adapted tactics for each game will win the game. His players are just pawns in that game. But he's increasingly showing that he can't change a game and his plans to disrupt the opposition are doing no such thing. They are just resulting in us being pinned back, without the ball and without any real idea how to win.
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Don’t forget Poch was dug out a lot for not making in game changes and subs
And that was throughout his time here
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Don’t forget Poch was dug out a lot for not making in game changes and subs
And that was throughout his time here
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True but there are some differences. Personally, I always thought Poch was unfairly criticised around subs. He had a philosophy on it which is well known at this stage. You can disagree with his approach but there was a logic to it. Also, subs are not the only way you can change a game. And Poch, at times, made changes that swung games in our favour without it involving a sub. I'd point to the game up at Anfield a few years ago where we were 1 down at half time and drew 2-2 after a missed pen. We absolutely battered them second half like I've rarely seen Liverpool battered at Anfield under Klopp.

Mourinho is also known for making subs to swing a game and being ruthless. It doesn't matter who you are or what stage of the game it is, Jose hauls you off if he feels it'll change the game. He's not really done that so far here. Dier's withdrawal against Olympiakos and maybe the subs against West Brom this season were the only game changers I can think of. At other times when the game needed changing, he either did nothing or made changes that had no effect on the game.

That's been hugely disappointing for me.
 
billyiddo said:
What does that have to do with the turnover/rebuild of the squad post-CL final mate?
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I think it shows that we have a lot of those players left but most of those left are way past their peak, the evolving of the squad has been very poor. Never sure if Poch didn't want the signings available, didn't have money or couldn't get what he wanted but we tend to sign players in streaks and get lots in a short space of time or prolong things out. The season we got no one set us back for sure - you always need to evolve and now we've gone on a streak and got lots of players in who aren't working well together but we also have a load of people clogging up the squad that are well passed it like Lamela, Rose etc.
 
Bullet said:
I assume Mou Mou tells the players to be super serious, no mistakes, ultimate concentration, death stare... and top players can do that but our lot shrivel and worry about it and end up shrinking back and making basic errors due to fear
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Then Mou is not doing his job. It's his job to improve the players he has.
 
Steve Perryman talked about this first goal in this game on his podcast. Said that the penalty area is the responsibility of the keeper. He either shouts at at defender to 'clear' or calls 'keeper'. If he does the former, it's Dier's fault. If he does the latter, it's his fault. If he doesn't call, it's his fault. He didn't go in to the errors that lead to the ball being crossed like that.
 
90291Spur said:
Steve Perryman talked about this first goal in this game on his podcast. Said that the pelanty area is the responsibility of the keeper. He either shouts at at defender to 'clear' or calls 'keeper'. If he does the former, it's Dier's fault. If he does the latter, it's his fault. If he doesn't call, it's his fault. He didn't go in to the errors that lead to the ball being crossed like that.
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Yep
And I honestly never hear Hugo all game and he is the captain
Yet you hear Joe Hart constantly
 
DeanoAustin said:
True but there are some differences. Personally, I always thought Poch was unfairly criticised around subs. He had a philosophy on it which is well known at this stage. You can disagree with his approach but there was a logic to it. Also, subs are not the only way you can change a game. And Poch, at times, made changes that swung games in our favour without it involving a sub. I'd point to the game up at Anfield a few years ago where we were 1 down at half time and drew 2-2 after a missed pen. We absolutely battered them second half like I've rarely seen Liverpool battered at Anfield under Klopp.

Mourinho is also known for making subs to swing a game and being ruthless. It doesn't matter who you are or what stage of the game it is, Jose hauls you off if he feels it'll change the game. He's not really done that so far here. Dier's withdrawal against Olympiakos and maybe the subs against West Brom this season were the only game changers I can think of. At other times when the game needed changing, he either did nothing or made changes that had no effect on the game.

That's been hugely disappointing for me.
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Re subs, Poch has many great facets that make him a brilliant manager but subs aren’t one of them IMO. He said he doesn’t want to hurt players feelings, sorry but that’s something he needs to get over. More importantly, don’t view subs as a bad thing. They’re a useful tool which every manager needs to utilise. As much as we were great to watch under him, there were times when he needed to change things and either couldn’t see it or didn’t do anything until 70 mins.
 
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