OMT Spurs - Fulham

[Bedfordspurs]

Do Emirates Marketing Project have the best defence because:

a) They surrender possession, sit really deep, get absolutely everyone behind the ball and defend for their lives

or

b) They look to dominate possession, attack the opposition, keep them penned back and limit the time that the opposition have the ball in their defensive third?

Well did you see them play yesterday?
It was very much about defending as highlighted by pep afterwards
And yes they attack great but their defending has improved no end

 

[Finney Is Back]

I’m sure they said yesterday Fulham hadn’t scored a see one half goal in a long while too
That was always gonna happen once they said that

The commentators saying that doesn't actually make it any more likely to happen.... What does make it more likely to happen is their opponent conceding possession to them, sitting deep and inviting them to attack though.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Emirates Marketing Project had 65% possession in their game against Brighton....

Yep
I watched the game
The action zones shows you where the action was...

 

[Finney Is Back]

You're taking one game though.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine. West Ham. Crystal Palace. Wolves. Fulham.

Maybe West Ham was a freak result, but Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Palace, Wolves, Fulham, is a pattern. It's not an accident, it's the same story each time and sorry, that sits with Jose and no one else. He didn't learn after Saudi Sportswashing Machine. He didn't learn after Palace. Since then you'd have thought he would have made adjustments to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Instead, it happened against Wolves and now Fulham. THAT is on Jose. It's not one game.

I'd scrub Saudi Sportswashing Machine from that.... We carried on attacking in that game until about 5 minutes before the end.
Palace, Wolves and Fulham though are all remarkably similar second halves. So similar in fact that one might assume that the manager is instructing the team to play that way.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don’t trust Ndombele to do the defensive side of that role yet, I don’t think Jose does either.

Lo Celso would be a better option imo but I’m happiest with Sissoko there to be honest.

I actually not trust Ndombele to do it more than Lo Celso. Lo Celso seems to be wrong side far too often, he also concedes lots of free kicks with his tackling.

 

[Finney Is Back]

He must have kicked a few members cats .

Seriously though there are a few who have never liked Jose since the day he walked in the door and even though we are in a final, still in Europe and still fighting for a top four place they are filling their boots at every dropped point. But as they/we say Stop! Hammer time.

'Still in Europe'.... Bloodyhell mate - we can't be considering getting out of that tinkle weak group a significant achievement can we?

The League Cup final is a positive I agree.... Although it won't be if we don't win it. I think Jose has done an OK job so far overall, I am just really disappointed that he wants to sit on what we have when winning (and on top) against the lower lights in the league, I don't think we have to do that to win the games and indeed us doing that is probably exactly what is causing us not to win those games.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I'd scrub Saudi Sportswashing Machine from that.... We carried on attacking in that game until about 5 minutes before the end.
Palace, Wolves and Fulham though are all remarkably similar second halves. So similar in fact that one might assume that the manager is instructing the team to play that way.

The Saudi Sportswashing Machine game left me so frustrated because I hated the result, it felt like two points fudged away but I really couldn’t blame the manager and players because they dominated the game and looked much the better team for the entire game.

Had that happened last night, as annoyed as I’d have been with two points dropped, I’d be a lot less annoyed at Mourinho.

Sometimes, I think he’s almost over complicating the game to make it about how his tactics win points rather than the players. I don’t subscribe to the attack, attack, attack philosophy because defending is vital too. But I do think you have an obligation to be constructive when you have the ball and you should always be trying to get control of the ball. Yet Jose seems to want to have an alternative way of playing and winning that shows him as some sort of genius. At the moment, he’s looking a bit foolish.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The Saudi Sportswashing Machine game left me so frustrated because I hated the result, it felt like two points fudged away but I really couldn’t blame the manager and players because they dominated the game and looked much the better team for the entire game.

Had that happened last night, as annoyed as I’d have been with two points dropped, I’d be a lot less annoyed at Mourinho.

Sometimes, I think he’s almost over complicating the game to make it about how his tactics win points rather than the players. I don’t subscribe to the attack, attack, attack philosophy because defending is vital too. But I do think you have an obligation to be constructive when you have the ball and you should always be trying to get control of the ball. Yet Jose seems to want to have an alternative way of playing and winning that shows him as some sort of genius. At the moment, he’s looking a bit foolish.

I think players play in fear a lot

 

[Finney Is Back]

Watch it again. They had two players in the box. Dier starts in a good position because he's marking the space where a centre back should be particularly as his partner is covering right back. Reguilon has two players in the left back position (should a midfielder be helping out there?). At that stage Reguilon should be bawling Dier out of it to tell him to pick one up. Maybe he was. Dier looks over his shoulder so by now, he should realise the danger and adjust his position to pick up one of the two. He doesn't. I don't think it's fair to say he missed an easy header. The ball was just too high for where he was positioned so he's at fault for being in the wrong place. Reguilon, in my book, is potentially guilty of not getting Dier in position to mark one of the two players he had. Sanchez is the most guilty because how he can get turned like that still makes no sense to me.

Actually you're right, there were two Fulham players in the box. Winks is covering the near post in case Lookman plays a short pass to their number 33 and he can also cut out a low cross across the goal (decent positioning from Winks) Regulion is in a good position picking up his player at the back post. Dier is the odd man out in that he isn't picking up his player who ends up scoring. As the cross comes in it still looks as though Dier will easily clear it or at worst their goalscorer will have to win a challenge against Dier in the air to score a goal, but Dier takes these two tiny little steps back and then jumps under the ball.

I really do think that if the roles had been reversed and Dier had got beaten by Lookman (who I thought looked really good - I know Bedford has bigged him up since his even his Charlton days?) and Sanchez had missed that header then people on here would've mainly been blaming Sanchez. I honestly just don't see any half decent centre back missing that header.

 

[braineclipse]

Actually you're right, there were two Fulham players in the box. Winks is covering the near post in case Lookman plays a short pass to their number 33 and he can also cut out a low cross across the goal (decent positioning from Winks) Regulion is in a good position picking up his player at the back post. Dier is the odd man out in that he isn't picking up his player who ends up scoring. As the cross comes in it still looks as though Dier will easily clear it or at worst their goalscorer will have to win a challenge against Dier in the air to score a goal, but Dier takes these two tiny little steps back and then jumps under the ball.

I really do think that if the roles had been reversed and Dier had got beaten by Lookman (who I thought looked really good - I know Bedford has bigged him up since his even his Charlton days?) and Sanchez had missed that header then people on here would've mainly been blaming Sanchez. I honestly just don't see any half decent centre back missing that header.

Dier could have done better. But it's a difficult one for centre backs, quality cross, not a lot of defenders in the box and attackers coming in getting a run up and getting to attack the ball.

The point where we have one centre back out almost by the corner flag and a cross coming in we're already in loads of trouble. Yes you want your remaining centre back to get you out of that trouble, but I'm not going to be very critical if they don't.

Posted this in the Sissoko thread too, but shouldn't Sissoko be doing more to help out Aurier and Sanches down that side?

Getting turned by Lookman will happen. At that stage of the game, 1-0 up, I personally want a centre back in that position to get real close to Lookman. Don't let him turn, give away a free kick and take the yellow if necessary. The centre back will know that we're in trouble if he allows a cross, would rather face a set piece that will be slightly better than a corner and where we can get organised. Can't really call it as a clear mistake though.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Actually you're right, there were two Fulham players in the box. Winks is covering the near post in case Lookman plays a short pass to their number 33 and he can also cut out a low cross across the goal (decent positioning from Winks) Regulion is in a good position picking up his player at the back post. Dier is the odd man out in that he isn't picking up his player who ends up scoring. As the cross comes in it still looks as though Dier will easily clear it or at worst their goalscorer will have to win a challenge against Dier in the air to score a goal, but Dier takes these two tiny little steps back and then jumps under the ball.

I really do think that if the roles had been reversed and Dier had got beaten by Lookman (who I thought looked really good - I know Bedford has bigged him up since his even his Charlton days?) and Sanchez had missed that header then people on here would've mainly been blaming Sanchez. I honestly just don't see any half decent centre back missing that header.

I really don't think there is anything wrong with Dier's original position. He's covering the centre of our goal which I'd expect him to do especially if Sanchez has been dragged wide. If he moves to the left back spot, there's a massive space there. I'd question why we don't have a midfielder helping Reguilon out. However, once Dier spots the danger, and he did look over his shoulder, his positioning should be better and he should be more alert to the danger. You could also make an argument that Reguilon should be more aggressive in the header. He can see everything going on. Dier's now clearly out of position and will struggle to meet the cross. For me Reguilon should probably go with the scorer when he sees the flight of the ball and knows Dier is in trouble. But he's caught between the two players at the back post and doesn't really mark either.

So Dier is responsible, Sanchez is definitely responsible, Reguilon less so. But there's an issue with our shape starting off that had two Fulham players in our left back area and only Reguilon covering them and that necessitated Sanchez being pulled out of position to cover the right back area of the pitch.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The Lamela play, but that was the after the equaliser, there were also a couple of breaks where we played a bad ball.

I agree we shouldn't be putting ourselves in that position. We need to stop conceding equalisers.

A novel way of doing that might be to continue trying to score another goal so that a goal conceded is a consolation instead of an equaliser....

 

[Finney Is Back]

View attachment 10611
Yep
I watched the game
The action zones shows you where the action was...

Mainly in the middle third with >50% more in Brighton's third than Emirates Marketing Project's?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Dier could have done better. But it's a difficult one for centre backs, quality cross, not a lot of defenders in the box and attackers coming in getting a run up and getting to attack the ball.

The point where we have one centre back out almost by the corner flag and a cross coming in we're already in loads of trouble. Yes you want your remaining centre back to get you out of that trouble, but I'm not going to be very critical if they don't.

Posted this in the Sissoko thread too, but shouldn't Sissoko be doing more to help out Aurier and Sanches down that side?

Getting turned by Lookman will happen. At that stage of the game, 1-0 up, I personally want a centre back in that position to get real close to Lookman. Don't let him turn, give away a free kick and take the yellow if necessary. The centre back will know that we're in trouble if he allows a cross, would rather face a set piece that will be slightly better than a corner and where we can get organised. Can't really call it as a clear mistake though.

Not 'could'.... 'should'. It made no difference whether their player had a run up to attack the ball in the end as Dier didn't even manage a challenge on him..

Re: Sissoko. I think those two players are Aurier's and Sanchez's (Or was 33 Fulham's left back?..... If so then yes, Sissoko should've been picking up the number 33, which would've allowed Aurier to go with Lookman instead of Sanchez. Once Aurier comes out to the 33 though then it is Sanchez's job to get tigher to Lookman.

 

[braineclipse]

Not 'could'.... 'should'. It made no difference whether their player had a run up to attack the ball in the end as Dier didn't even manage a challenge on him..

Re: Sissoko. I think those two players are Aurier's and Sanchez's (Or was 33 Fulham's left back?..... If so then yes, Sissoko should've been picking up the number 33, which would've allowed Aurier to go with Lookman instead of Sanchez. Once Aurier comes out to the 33 though then it is Sanchez's job to get tigher to Lookman.

But why didn't he manage to challenge him? Yes, as a centre back you can position yourself more as a man marker on that player, but with space to attack a quality cross would be dangerous regardless.

My point is that it all happens very quickly, space, limited time, movement. I would expect Dier to win that quite often, but I think most centre backs will lose that once in a while. That's where crossing is truly dangerous, with space and movement, when defenses aren't settled and organised. Because it's a lot harder for defenders.

Edit: On Sissoko, yes it's their number 33. Regardless of that though, we're in a situation where our centre back is getting dragged wide almost to the corner flag and our full back is tracking the runner inside. I'd expect a midfielder, particularly one whose strengths are supposed to be defensive, to... well, run back and defend instead of just standing around.

 

[parklane1]

Mate, he played three defensive midfielders at home. Against Fulham. In 18th.

The guy is a coward of massive proportions, who, worst of all, never seems to learn a damn thing - this is the fifth time this season his cowardice in the second half has cost us, and this time, it was emphasized by him sitting on his arse watching us sit back and struggle for 25 minutes until we conceded, and then throwing on Lamela and Vinicius in a panic at being exposed by f*cking Scott Parker.

Some have never liked Mourinho. But some can see that he is learning absolutely nothing from his many failures this season, with a squad Poch would have killed to have.

Using the word COWARD in your posts about Jose is way over the top, i usually enjoy reading your posts mate i really do, However much like your rants in the past about Levy you have let yourself down by showing the same fixation with Jose. Poor form mate.

 

[parklane1]

'Still in Europe'.... Bloodyhell mate - we can't be considering getting out of that tinkle weak group a significant achievement can we?

The League Cup final is a positive I agree.... Although it won't be if we don't win it. I think Jose has done an OK job so far overall, I am just really disappointed that he wants to sit on what we have when winning (and on top) against the lower lights in the league, I don't think we have to do that to win the games and indeed us doing that is probably exactly what is causing us not to win those games.

Still being in Europe is better then being out of it though, the truth is we are still in with a shout of three trophys and a place in the top four. We are not good enough to win the title ( despite what some of the more hopeful suggest/think). And again i will say IF Son had put those two good chances away last night a lot of the hyperbole posts would not have been posted. Not saying you are one of them who are over reacting.

 

[Pirate55]

I think players play in fear a lot

Agreed. And can you blame them after Mouinho laid into Dele for conceding possession which led ( some considerable time later) to us conceding a goal.

 

[Baleforce]

fear is good, fear is the path to the dark side, it leads to anger, which leads to hatred of the opposition which leads to their suffering

 

[seaside spur]

How on earth does Dier seem to get away with completely missing his header in the box in so many people's thoughts on where the blame lies for their equaliser last night? Fulham non-figuratively only had one player in the box, standing right in the centre and yet still completely free. After choosing not to be close to the opponent, Dier then still managed to miss a completely free header. I don't think any half reasonable centre back would've missed that header. I think even half of us on this forum wouldn't have missed it.

I don't disagree. A catalogue of errors happened for us to concede that goal. It's costing us.