Nuno Espírito Santo - Sacked

[harr1984]

The DOF situation could be interesting if we repeat Saturday a few more times.

He is always going to try and save his job, he will be in Levy’s ear telling him it’s the manager and not his signings soon enough.

I don’t see it that way at all. It’s quite clear our buying model has gone back to ones for the future. Bryan Gil,Romero,Sarr,Royal etc These are guys in their early 20s not expected to hit the ground running. Our signings have barely played a handful of games between them to date…..

 

[MKSpur]

The DOF situation could be interesting if we repeat Saturday a few more times.

He is always going to try and save his job, he will be in Levy’s ear telling him it’s the manager and not his signings soon enough.

There are a few reasons to think of Saturday as being the exception rather than the rule regarding the things Nuno can control:
2 first team cbs missing
1 injured during the game
1 sent off, who has played more games at rb for us
Son l, Bergwijn and Lo Celso missing
RB making debut

it was only after Tanganga went that we went behind. I know we were devoid of any goal threat and pre match most of us couldn’t see the benefit of Winks and Dele playing where they were but the previous 3 games with slightly more of our better players available have been won in a reasonably controlled fashion, very early on in the managers tenure.
If we play like we did again Palace, when most of the players are available for 90 minutes then I agree the patience with Nuno will be thin, externally and internally. If we suffer due to Kane or Son not being available even with Gil playing then that could be argued as weakness of the squad make up rather than the coach imo.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don’t see it that way at all. It’s quite clear our buying model has gone back to ones for the future. Bryan Gil,Romero,Sarr,Royal etc These are guys in their early 20s not expected to hit the ground running. Our signings have barely played a handful of games between them to date…..

I think the cumulative time for our new signings in the league so far this season would be about 1 1/2 games in total. That’s only because Emerson played the whole of Saturday

 

[StephenH]

but everyone is forecasting we won’t have that win rate in a months time
The same people who thought we would beat cannon fodder palace and lose to city I’d hazard a guess
One thing we know in football is it’s unpredictable. Who would have thought that United would lose to the mighty young boys last night… even with Ronaldo there

That’s why I love and am frustrated by this game in the same breath.

 

[NorwegianSpursFan]

[yt]

 

[AdamB]

the idea of being bored to death by a 'nice bloke' doesn't appeal to me.

Agree with that. I was thinking yesterday about whether Nuno is suffering by following another defensive manager

When Mourinho was sacked, as well as being pleased that his vile personality was no longer associated with the club, I was relieved as I felt we might be able to return to playing some more attacking football again. Therefore to have a manager who says that the first aim for a match is not to concede for the first hour, is more of a continuation rather than change from the Jose time.

Perhaps we would all be more accepting had Nuno followed Poch?

 

[AdamB]

I’m trying hard not to be negative and rushing to judgment but boy it’s not easy

100% how I feel!

 

[Mr Gogolak]

but everyone is forecasting we won’t have that win rate in a months time
The same people who thought we would beat cannon fodder palace and lose to city I’d hazard a guess
One thing we know in football is it’s unpredictable. Who would have thought that United would lose to the mighty young boys last night… even with Ronaldo there

I'm one of these people! Quite frankly, unless our recent performances got us Champions League, which over the course of a season, I'd find absolutely staggering, it wouldn't take anything from the fact that I take no pleasure in watching our games. If people enjoy that kind of football or if they think 1-0 wins are the epitome of football - fair enough. To each his own. All I'm saying is a) despite the results, Ardiles' Spurs were more enjoyable and b) he still has plenty of time to turn things around.

I don't think venting your feelings on a supporters' message board or expressing their doubts on recent performances regardless of results should be considered as a lack of loyalty. I really wish him all the best... but I still couldn't wait for our last three games to end.

 

[AdamB]

I'm one of these people! Quite frankly, unless our recent performances got us Champions League, which over the course of a season, I'd find absolutely staggering, it wouldn't take anything from the fact that I take no pleasure in watching our games. If people enjoy that kind of football or if they think 1-0 wins are the epitome of football - fair enough. To each his own. All I'm saying is a) despite the results, Ardiles' Spurs were more enjoyable and b) he still has plenty of time to turn things around.

I don't think venting your feelings on a supporters' message board or expressing their doubts on recent performances regardless of results should be considered as a lack of loyalty. I really wish him all the best... but I still couldn't wait for our last three games to end.

Agree. I actually wish I could turn-off from Spurs for a few months and come back in the new year (or fast forward til then), by which time Nuno will have had time with the squad and developed a more attacking style to compliment the solidity which he's brought...or he hasn't and the way of playing is what we should expect going forward and Levy will have to think about the implications of that in terms of Spurs as a brand.

He's a good guy and someone you would like to succeed but the City, Wolves and Palace games were a tough watch (I didnt see the Watford game) and sitting through a few more months of those type of games isn't exciting

 

[braineclipse]

but everyone is forecasting we won’t have that win rate in a months time
The same people who thought we would beat cannon fodder palace and lose to city I’d hazard a guess
One thing we know in football is it’s unpredictable. Who would have thought that United would lose to the mighty young boys last night… even with Ronaldo there

I'm forecasting that if we don't improve our xG numbers our results will definitely suffer.

Expecting our win rate to be lower than 75% seems only rational regardless of what Nuno does, so yeah, that will drop. By how much is the question. That will depend on performances ultimately.

I don't really do results predictions on individual games, because that's essentially impossible. Expected the City game to be though, but it came at a good time and we'd have a chance. Expected the Palace game to be difficult, but expected more from us going forward than we delivered in the first hour.

If we keep mostly creating chances on the break, if we keep being unable to break teams down and pay through real pressure we'll struggle.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm one of these people! Quite frankly, unless our recent performances got us Champions League, which over the course of a season, I'd find absolutely staggering, it wouldn't take anything from the fact that I take no pleasure in watching our games. If people enjoy that kind of football or if they think 1-0 wins are the epitome of football - fair enough. To each his own. All I'm saying is a) despite the results, Ardiles' Spurs were more enjoyable and b) he still has plenty of time to turn things around.

I don't think venting your feelings on a supporters' message board or expressing their doubts on recent performances regardless of results should be considered as a lack of loyalty. I really wish him all the best... but I still couldn't wait for our last three games to end.

I don’t think anyone is questioning loyalty
Everyone’s nature is different and how we see things too
I don’t know anyone who’s what to see turgid football
But I do think fans accept winning football
The balance has to be struck though and it takes time

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm forecasting that if we don't improve our xG numbers our results will definitely suffer.

Expecting our win rate to be lower than 75% seems only rational regardless of what Nuno does, so yeah, that will drop. By how much is the question. That will depend on performances ultimately.

I don't really do results predictions on individual games, because that's essentially impossible. Expected the City game to be though, but it came at a good time and we'd have a chance. Expected the Palace game to be difficult, but expected more from us going forward than we delivered in the first hour.

If we keep mostly creating chances on the break, if we keep being unable to break teams down and pay through real pressure we'll struggle.

I cannot see is getting near to 75%
That would be top 2/3 in the league
But if we can keep over 50% we will be doing well and better than a Pochs first season
That in itself would be a big achievement

 

[Finney Is Back]

I watched the game
I’m sure you did
Wolves barely had a shot of note. Their xG is pumped up by the volume of shots
Hugo literally made one decent save
Their keeper made quite a few
Same as Watford. Not sure how their xG is so high
The Watford keeper made more saves than any had at that point of the season
They were comfortable wins IMO
If xG meant anything we would have lost to city multiple times instead of them never scoring vs us

I did indeed. Wolves not finishing well does equate to the game being comfortable. Chances in that game were pretty even as the XG shows.
Watford game we created little... They created a bit less than the little we created.
XG is by no means perfect - and of course doesn't account for the ability of the players taking the shots (or the person trying to save them) but does tend to give a good indication of the quality of chances in a game. In the PL we are 5th bottom for XG and 6th bottom for XGA at present. If that continues then the statistical likelihood is that we won't be anywhere near the top of the table.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Agree. I actually wish I could turn-off from Spurs for a few months and come back in the new year (or fast forward til then), by which time Nuno will have had time with the squad and developed a more attacking style to compliment the solidity which he's brought...or he hasn't and the way of playing is what we should expect going forward and Levy will have to think about the implications of that in terms of Spurs as a brand.

He's a good guy and someone you would like to succeed but the City, Wolves and Palace games were a tough watch (I didnt see the Watford game) and sitting through a few more months of those type of games isn't exciting

Watford was a weird game
Some of our fans thought we didn’t deserve to win which to me was very odd having seen the game after

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I did indeed. Wolves not finishing well does equate to the game being comfortable. Chances in that game were pretty even as the XG shows.
Watford game we created little... They created a bit less than the little we created.
XG is by no means perfect - and of course doesn't account for the ability of the players taking the shots (or the person trying to save them) but does tend to give a good indication of the quality of chances in a game. In the PL we are 5th bottom for XG and 6th bottom for XGA at present. If that continues then the statistical likelihood is that we won't be anywhere near the top of the table.

Sorry but how did the Watford keeper make the most saves of any keeper in the league at that point equate to us not creating much? I mean he made more saves than any keeper has had tools in the division which means we had more chances on goal leading to a shot that was saved

Wolves xG was skewed by traores chance and huge number of shots form distance increasing their XG. Hugo barely got dirty. It wasn’t finishing well is was poor chance creation.

I mean stats are stats. The key stat is before place we won 100% of our games. We concede 0 goals. They are actual numbers at that point

palace obviously flipped that massively and has also skewed our numbers if we go down the xG road…

 

[Finney Is Back]

[yt]

This is exactly how I have seen us this season. This guy makes some good points about the way that we play. I think our success (or not) this season will depend on how long we can keep the game nil nil. It's not going to be pretty but might end up being reasonably effective.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Sorry but how did the Watford keeper make the most saves of any keeper in the league at that point equate to us not creating much? I mean he made more saves than any keeper has had tools in the division which means we had more chances on goal leading to a shot that was saved

Wolves xG was skewed by traores chance and huge number of shots form distance increasing their XG. Hugo barely got dirty. It wasn’t finishing well is was poor chance creation.

I mean stats are stats. The key stat is before place we won 100% of our games. We concede 0 goals. They are actual numbers at that point

palace obviously flipped that massively and has also skewed our numbers if we go down the xG road…

The thing is mate that you often argue the very opposite of this.... In games when we face a lot of shots you claim that we had control because they weren't high percentage chances. You can't have it both ways. If you're claiming that we were comfortable in beating Watford because we had 15 shots then you have to also concede that we were lucky to beat Wolves who had a massive 25 shots against us.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The thing is mate that you often argue the very opposite of this.... In games when we face a lot of shots you claim that we had control because they weren't high percentage chances. You can't have it both ways. If you're claiming that we were comfortable in beating Watford because we had 15 shots then you have to also concede that we were lucky to beat Wolves who had a massive 25 shots against us.

No I’m saying we were comfortable because we scored and worked the keeper. He had to work hard to keep them in the game. he made the most saves of any keeper. So we cejatky did something right
I’ve seen us play games where we shoot on sight but barely hit the target. That’s speculative football.

I’ve looked at the xgs for Wolves and Watford
Traore had 4 shots in total cs us yet how xG was 0.7 including his one on one with Hugo
That was Wolves doing the speculative shooting thing that you mention above. We had control exactly as the TIFO video you posted.

to me defensive control is when you keep the opposition at arms length so they spank shots in sight hopeful way. That’s exactly what happens vs Wolves

Vs Watford we executed our shots poorly from close range.. that’s on us, not their defensive control

Against palace we had that control until the red, we offered nothing the other end. It was grim

 

[AdamB]

I think our success (or not) this season will depend on how long we can keep the game nil nil. It's not going to be pretty but might end up being reasonably effective.

...and if that is the way we continue this season, then Nuno does need to get results. People will give him at least half the season if progress is made, and more likely the full season, but the following quote will be ringing in people's ears if the football isnt better come say Feb/Mar time

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

 

[Finney Is Back]

No I’m saying we were comfortable because we scored and worked the keeper. He had to work hard to keep them in the game. he made the most saves of any keeper. So we cejatky did something right
I’ve seen us play games where we shoot on sight but barely hit the target. That’s speculative football.

I’ve looked at the xgs for Wolves and Watford
Traore had 4 shots in total cs us yet how xG was 0.7 including his one on one with Hugo
That was Wolves doing the speculative shooting thing that you mention above. We had control exactly as the TIFO video you posted.

to me defensive control is when you keep the opposition at arms length so they spank shots in sight hopeful way. That’s exactly what happens vs Wolves

Vs Watford we executed our shots poorly from close range.. that’s on us, not their defensive control

Against palace we had that control until the red, we offered nothing the other end. It was grim

We had 8 shots from inside the box against Watford (Watford had 5 against us).
Wolves had 13 shots from inside the box against us (we had 6 against them).
If you decide that we had a comfortable victory against Watford (we didn't). Then you can only conclude that we were lucky against Wolves (we were)