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Nuno Espírito Santo - Sacked

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by Denmark Spur, 30 Jun 2021.

  1. Mr Gogolak

    Mr Gogolak Gordon Durie

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    Could not agree more. However, I really hope, for everybody's sake, that the chairman and the players don't base their opinions on my comments. That would be a recipe for disaster! I don't even think my ramblings have any influence on the mood inside the stadium. I watch the games, come up with some ideas and I log in here to see what others have seen differently and exchange our points of view. It's as simple as that.

    I don't know what it's like in the UK but in France (fortunately, it's different in Croatia), it's becoming more and more difficult to debate. It started a few years before the Covid outbreak. You tend to have one set of largely approved opinions and if you disagree with that, you're either an idiot or a conspiracy theorist or worse. I'd give a few examples, but I'm afraid I'd look like an idiot or a conspiracy theorist!

    I think every opinion deserves to be heard (even the most outrageous ones) and challenged (even the most obvious ones).

    When I said in the summer that we were back to the 90s (Spurs-wise, that is), the idea was dismissed by some fellow fans. So what? Even if we're not and I got it wrong (which I hope), what does it matter? They won't like me? They'll think I'm an idiot? I'm not patronising when I say that I'm glad some people, like yourself, are willing to defend it. In other circumstances, I would too but I really find his brand of football extremely boring and I'm too old to waste two hours of my time for the fleeting pleasure of a hard-fought 1-0 victory with a couple of shots of target in 90 minutes.
     
  2. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Bert Bliss

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    I don’t think anyone will call it exciting football
     
  3. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Paul Robinson

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  4. afsoc4life

    afsoc4life Dean Austin

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    Managers aren't allowed to be furious with players? Managers aren't allowed to treat players like adults?

    That may explain some mentalities in the squad. That said it is a media article. I am very careful with them nowadays. They tend to let fly a number of articles.
     
  5. Surfless

    Surfless Jason Cundy

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    Our peers were and are the other 19 clubs in the Premier League. In the FA cup there's 91 other clubs. In Europe as many clubs as there are in the respective association members. That's our peer group, and by that measure across the three competitions we're regularly in - Domestic League, Domestic Cup and European tournament, we're in a high percentile. Put it this way if I was hiring for my work, and I was offered Tottenham or Crystal Palace from the Prem, I'd have Spurs - same as if I was offered Tottenham or Crawley town in the FA Cup or spurs over KV Mechelen in europe. The only other metric involved in measuring performance revolves around spending, and the likes of Leeds, Blackburn, have proved that is often temporary and fraught with danger if done badly.

    Regards managers and the desirability of our club, the overall picture has remained "sleeping giant" for a generation. We don't win something every season, we are there or thereabouts and we are coming off the back of a spell where we had a manager who made our team overachieve. There's nothing wrong with over achieving, its practically the only way to break the hold the rich clubs have on competitions now (think Wigan a few years ago in the cup), but when the leader of that over achievement left we reached for someone whose skill lay not in improving players but buying top ones and creating a team that way.

    The only real mistake I stick on with our chairman is the appointment of Mourinho, as he just wasn't the guy to take us up a level with our business philosophy. Sure it was a statement, but it was vital after Jose we didn't do that again. Hence, no to Conte. The only mitigation I can give to appointing Jose was that if covid hadn't happened Levy night have been looking to back the manager better than in the end he could, financially.

    We are in a hiatus at the moment while poch gets his PSG itch scratched. Once he's done that he will be back I suspect. Nuno/an other will be a stop gap til then. It's a risky strategy but how do you pass up a guy who is so skilled and loved the club so much?

    Personally I'd now go all out for Potter, just not sure if the board would go for it.
     
  6. afsoc4life

    afsoc4life Dean Austin

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    Case in point in first half - Hojberg's positional discipline and response in transition.
     
  7. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Paul Robinson

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    Jose was such a bad match for us, just as we were a bad match for him.
    He obviously thought he could rock up here, whip the players into a shape, win a trophy and move on to better things on the back of it, reflecting in the glory.
    The fact he could not see the mental fragility of that/this squad speaks volumes about him.

    I'd love poch back, but i can't see it working. The expectations would be enormous, and nothing is going to fix this situation quickly.
    Even though we appear to be recruiting just exactly the rigbt type of player for him i just can't see him being given the time unless it all falls into place immediately. And this is spurs, so that's not going to happen.
     
  8. Mr Gogolak

    Mr Gogolak Gordon Durie

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    I know I'm in the minority, but I'll never understand the obsession with Pochettino. It's like saying there's only one man in the world who can manage this club. Despite the abject football on display, I'm glad we went for Santo rather than signing him back because, at least, we're moving forward. All good things have to come to an end. I've thought long and hard about what makes it such an unappealing proposition for me and I think it goes way beyond football. It feels childish to me: one more ice cream, one more cartoon, one more season with my favourite manager...

    To each, his own but I think what irks me with the calls for Pochettino to come back is that, somehow, I see it as being unable to accept your own mortality (big words, here!). Time passes. Things change. You can't live with your parents forever and, sometimes, your partner leaves for someone else. You move on, you learn, you adapt. Having him back would be the opposite of that. But, again, I realise my reluctance probably says a lot more about me than it does about Pochettino's ability as a manager!
     
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  9. Mcfee

    Mcfee Hossam Ghaly

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    Currently Poch is unavailable and keeping the club in a holding pattern until he becomes available would be a disastrous position to put ourselves in. Why would the likes of Potter or anyone else touch us in that case.
     
  10. AdamB

    AdamB Gary Stevens

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    I really dont think this argument stacks up. If you look back on page 71 I posted our CL final squad and how many of those are still around.

    Unless we've been signing players with the 'wrong personality' then this just doesnt stack up
     
  11. DeanoAustin

    DeanoAustin Paul Stalteri

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    Managers are allowed to be furious with players. That happens in football and it happens in real life. But I think sometimes fans think that "what players really need is to be told a few home truths" all the time.

    Players are human too. If some fella comes in and is nothing but harsh with them, they aren't gonna like it. I wouldn't in my job. I can take criticism for mistakes but I won't take it non stop and I would struggle under a manager who kept an unhealthy distance.

    You need more as a manager than to be hard. Fergie had it. Players often speak about how he'd take an interest in their lives and knew their kids names and stuff. Fergie was unbelievable for that apparently. I know a bloke who met him twice, years apart, and Fergie knew his name second time. Cloughie was a very good man manager. Listen to Roy Keane talk about how Clough handled his homesickness. Mourinho was unbelievable at bigging people up as well as kicking them when he felt it was required.

    Being a manager is more than just being tactically astute and being able to "tell it as it is". A manager needs to build relationships as soft as that sounds.

    All the noises so far indicate that Nuno can only do 1 of the 3 if even that.
     
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  12. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Paul Robinson

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    I honestly don't think Fergie was a great football manager, but he was a fantastic man manager.
    He knew how and when to treat players to mr nice guy and mr angry.
    He was also excellent at knowing when to treat them as individuals and and as a group.
    But he was very lucky to have the full support of the utd board, not many managers get to fall out with the likes of Beckham, keane, stam etc and not feel the heat.
    It does help when you're winning of course.
     
    monkeybarry likes this.
  13. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Paul Walsh

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    I think we're stuck with Nuno until the end of the season (unless we're bottom 5 or 6 come the start of January).....

    We saw back in the summer that we couldn't attract a top level coach and that was even when the coach knew they would have the summer to work with the squad and the carrot of some spending on the squad dangled in front of them. I think Levy knows that he cannot really appoint another Mason type and/or have another protracted manager search.

    I think we now need to hope that Nuno stumbles on to some tactics that work to a reasonable level that lets us grind out a few results.
     
    relic58 likes this.
  14. monkeybarry

    monkeybarry Steffen Iversen

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    There is definitely something that has been consistent from the end of Poch, throughout Mourinho and now with Nuno - there are certainly some common denominators.
    Personalities and attitudes change over time, so I don't think the direct comparison to CL final squad works. Although it may hold up with some players knowing that is their career highlight, so could be a reason for the lack of effort.

    I was watching a programme last night and G.Neville was talking about Ferguson and Ferguson not accepting that the opposition was "bigger or stronger or more skillful - find a way to win the game". And that's it, find "a way" - that's what divides players from winners. Are you here to play the game? Or win the game?
    I can't think of many players in our team that fit the latter and plenty that seem to have just "turned up for a bit of a kick about"
     
    afsoc4life likes this.
  15. yiddo37

    yiddo37 Sebastien Bassong

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    [QUOTE="glasgowspur, post: 1506422, member: 6666"I honestly don't think Fergie was a great football manager, but he was a fantastic man manager.
    He knew how and when to treat players to mr nice guy and mr angry.
    He was also excellent at knowing when to treat them as individuals and and as a group.
    But he was very lucky to have the full support of the utd board, not many managers get to fall out with the likes of Beckham, keane, stam etc and not feel the heat.
    It does help when you're winning of course.[/QUOTE]
    Agree with the other stuff but can't agree with the bolded bit, he was one of the best if not the best manager in my lifetime.
    Did a good job at St Mirren, made Aberdeen excellent and beat some great sides including Real Madrid to win the Cup Winners Cup and then after a sticky start to his Man Utd. career took them to title after title amongst cup glories. Gutted we didn't get him we he left Aberdeen, would he had survived at Spurs we'll never know.
     
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  16. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Paul Walsh

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    Interesting that you judge our peers to be all of those 19 other PL clubs. I bet if you asked fans of Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project or Arsenal who their peers were the percentage who would list the other 19 PL clubs would be a number approaching zero.

    There is a story from Matt Law that says Potter let it be known that he wasn't interested in the Spurs job in the Summer. Something about him not being prepared to risk his growing reputation by working at Spurs. Of course could just be made up rubbish, or not. Only Potter himself and Daniel Levy really know the answer to that question. The Spurs job is a very, very difficult one though as the expectations from the owners seem to sit quite a long way above the resources provided.
     
    Last edited: 29 Sep 2021
  17. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Paul Walsh

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    Why would Pochettino come back anyway? He overachieved for four, consistent years without being properly backed and then got sacked at the first downturn. It is clear that Tottenham needs him far more than he needs Tottenham now.
     
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  18. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Paul Robinson

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    Agree with the other stuff but can't agree with the bolded bit, he was one of the best if not the best manager in my lifetime.
    Did a good job at St Mirren, made Aberdeen excellent and beat some great sides including Real Madrid to win the Cup Winners Cup and then after a sticky start to his Man Utd. career took them to title after title amongst cup glories. Gutted we didn't get him we he left Aberdeen, would he had survived at Spurs we'll never know.[/QUOTE]


    Don’t get me wrong, not saying he wasn't a very good football manager, just not one of the greats.
    I don't remember him at st mirren but i did get to see his Aberdeen teams and they were similar to what his utd team turned into, hungry, quick and aggressive (in a good way sense) with a good blend of steel and style.
    But for me he wasn't an innovative, new style manager who changed the game.
     
  19. harr1984

    harr1984 Jimmy Neighbour

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    Exactly, and Nuno has had to experiment as he didnt have his top players all pre season. We are only six games into the season, this has effectively been his pre season with his first team and even then its been fudged with internationals and injuries.

    I had to double check the table and we are just 4points off top 4 having got Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project and Arse away out of the way already. Sure the football has to improve, but the way some wet the bed on here you'd think the club was about to cease existence. Every team bar maybe Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea are going to have these kind of dips - more than once aswell, as the quality of the PL is at a very high level, even the mid to lower end teams have some really good players. It's our turn right now, just as it was Arsenal's a couple of weeks ago and everyone knew then that they would pick up just as we will.....
     
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  20. Baleforce

    Baleforce Micky Hazard

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    Don’t get me wrong, not saying he wasn't a very good football manager, just not one of the greats.
    I don't remember him at st mirren but i did get to see his Aberdeen teams and they were similar to what his utd team turned into, hungry, quick and aggressive (in a good way sense) with a good blend of steel and style.
    But for me he wasn't an innovative, new style manager who changed the game.[/QUOTE]

    I reckon he was, he built 3 great teams at United, that won in different ways.
     

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