Transfer Tittle-Tattle

[StephenH]

I’ve heard people say that CM has affected the defence this season but IMO the defence has just been massively guilty of individual errors constantly and the best CMs in the world can’t account for that.

I think the CM issues are an excuse forbid failing elsewhere IMO

The so called weakness in that area was good enough to deal with citys, Chelsea’s, United and pools this season, and Dortmund’s

But we are only forth behind Chelsea, City and Pool.
I suppose its where we all see us aiming for and ending up.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I’ve heard people say that CM has affected the defence this season but IMO the defence has just been massively guilty of individual errors constantly and the best CMs in the world can’t account for that.

I think the CM issues are an excuse forbid failing elsewhere IMO

The so called weakness in that area was good enough to deal with citys, Chelsea’s, United and pools this season, and Dortmund’s

Just because it has worked, doesnt mean it is working, if you see what I mean?

Our CM is massively compromised compared to years passed, and I do genuinely believe it has impacted the entire team.

While the team collectively has had its moments and brainfarts, I honestly think it stems from midfield.

The attack is not being supported and supplied anywhere near as effectively, meaning Alli and Eriksen are often MIA because theyve dropped so deep to see the ball.

The midfield isnt as solid as it was, meaning that platform we always enjoyed for recycling the ball back into attacking areas has all but disappeared. We used to leave 2 just in the other half sending the ball back in everytime the other side defended. We were able to exert big pressure and get all our bodies forward. Now we and up in a much more end-to-end situation.

This also has the flip side of the defence not being offered anything like as much protection as it was. Its exposed time and again and last ditch defending is far more prevailant than ever before.

Yes, I completely agree our defenders and FBs, our attackers havent been on particular form and of course thats not ALL down to the CM - but the CM is a massive part of it.

Put it this way, a completely limited player like Sissoko is regularly held up as MOTM and now Im seeing him offered as player of the season.

Our midfield has been that poor, people think Sissoko is an especially good player.

Now Im not looking to start that whole debate again, but when you have a player whose biggest asset is his stamina, and who is really just a workhorse, well that says everything you need to know about the core of the team and its issues IMO.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But we are only forth behind Chelsea, City and Pool.
I suppose its where we all see us aiming for and ending up.

We will end up third
We haven’t IMO lost key games because of losing midfield
We have lost those games because of shocking defensive errors like both gaols at Chelsea away, or the winner for pool away or the goal for the arse to take the lead at Wembley, or the way we didn’t clear our lines vs Southampton for that first goal
Even someone like Kante can’t cover for that level of errors

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Put it this way, a completely limited player like Sissoko is regularly held up as MOTD and now Im seeing him offered as player of the season.

Our midfield has been that poor, people think Sissoko is an especially good player.

Now Im not looking to start that whole debate again, but when you have a player whose biggest asset is his stamina, and who is really just a workhorse, well that says everything you need to know about the core of the team and its issues IMO.

That won Kante POTL didn’t it? Running a lot and making important challenges.

It’s funny as we have had so many injuries to that CM area

I’ve heard loads of people say players like Dier aren’t good enough but they played their in out best seasons (even the year people say we played Wanyama And Dembele he played the most games)... I agree I’d like to add to the CM area of Wanyama is not recoverable but of argue adding some pace on our right full back side and replacing Toby are bigger issues

Replacing Llorente too (the only obvious player existing who actually gets games) is a big task

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

That won Kante POTL didn’t it? Running a lot and making important challenges.

It’s funny as we have had so many injuries to that CM area

I’ve heard loads of people say players like Dier aren’t good enough but they played their in out best seasons (even the year people say we played Wanyama And Dembele he played the most games)... I agree I’d like to add to the CM area of Wanyama is not recoverable but of argue adding some pace on our right full back side and replacing Toby are bigger issues

Replacing Llorente too (the only obvious player existing who actually gets games) is a big task

Kante was part of a very well functioning midfield, he played a disciplined role and was outstanding within it. Easily the best DM in europe that year and provided the platform for his teams unlikely success.

He bears no comparison to Sissoko at all that I can see, aside from them having similar levels of stamina.

Im a big fan of Dier and I think we have missed him greatly this season. He is hugely underrated and his importance to the side underappreciated.

Replacing Toby is only an issue if Toby leaves, othewise buying a defender isnt even on the radar. Its not part of the conversation, as we dont (presently) NEED to replace him at all.

We can improve on our fullbacks, but we can also argue that if our midfield worked better (as it should) they would not be as exposed and would perform much better as it is. As it was in seasons prior.

And as Ive spent all day discussing, I dont believe replacing Llorente is even necessary. In fact I think its pointless, unless you replace him with an AM.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I’ve heard people say that CM has affected the defence this season but IMO the defence has just been massively guilty of individual errors constantly and the best CMs in the world can’t account for that.

I think the CM issues are an excuse forbid failing elsewhere IMO

The so called weakness in that area was good enough to deal with citys, Chelsea’s, United and pools this season, and Dortmund’s

Defending is always about odds though. If you win say 8/10 50:50s you are an exceptional defender. If you have to deal with one situation a match, you have weeks of clean sheets. If you have to deal with 20 situations a match, you get beat 4-0 no matter how well you play. Dominating midfield makes a defenders life a piece of tinkle

 

[StephenH]

We will end up third
We haven’t IMO lost key games because of losing midfield
We have lost those games because of shocking defensive errors like both gaols at Chelsea away, or the winner for pool away or the goal for the arse to take the lead at Wembley, or the way we didn’t clear our lines vs Southampton for that first goal
Even someone like Kante can’t cover for that level of errors

To quantify what leads to a goal is difficult. I though have been alarmed at the lack of midfield depth in the squad.
We are struggling again this season due to key injuries for lack of critical cover in the squad.
You say we will finish 3rd I as always admire your optimism.
Sissoko athleticism has been nothing short of season saving (with top 4 being our par target) and without him, I think we could kiss any aspirations to a top four finish goodbye. We need a fit Wanyama, Dier, Winks and Sissoko plus quality cover for next season minimum or we will be struggling again. Let’s us make no mistake we are struggling, working our collective nuts off yes, but struggling none the less.

We are fighting a big battle to keep key players also.

 

[braineclipse]

Kante was part of a very well functioning midfield, he played a disciplined role and was outstanding within it. Easily the best DM in europe that year and provided the platform for his teams unlikely success.

He bears no comparison to Sissoko at all that I can see, aside from them having similar levels of stamina.

Im a big fan of Dier and I think we have missed him greatly this season. He is hugely underrated and his importance to the side underappreciated.

Replacing Toby is only an issue if Toby leaves, othewise buying a defender isnt even on the radar. Its not part of the conversation, as we dont (presently) NEED to replace him at all.

We can improve on our fullbacks, but we can also argue that if our midfield worked better (as it should) they would not be as exposed and would perform much better as it is. As it was in seasons prior.

And as Ive spent all day discussing, I dont believe replacing Llorente is even necessary. In fact I think its pointless, unless you replace him with an AM.

We've come up against the two best teams in the league, two of the very best in Europe, in recent weeks. Deserving a draw against Liverpool and deserving at least a draw against City, actually getting the win. Losing the Liverpool game to a late goalkeeping error whilst squandering our own chances.

I struggle to see how we've managed those performances, particularly defensively, if Sissoko bears no comparison to Kante other than stamina.

Palace is a good counter attacking team that we pretty much strangled for 90 minutes. Sissoko played a big part in that, it was down to more than stamina.

Dier will have to up his game to deserve a starting role over Sissoko right now based on form this season imo. In that most defensive midfield role.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

To quantify what lead to a goal is difficult. I though have been alarmed at the lack of midfield depth in the squad.
We are struggling again this season due to key injuries for lack of critical cover in the squad.
You say we will finish 3rd I as always admire your optimism.
Sissoko athleticism has been nothing short of season saving (with top 4 being our par target) and without him I think we could kiss any aspirations to a top four finish goodbye. We need a fit Wanyama, Dier, Winks and Sissoko plus quality cover for next season minimum or we will be struggling again. Let’s us make no mistake we are struggling, working our collective nuts off yes, but struggling non the less.

We are fighting a big battle to keep key players also.

We won’t have a WC to deal with and that will be huge
It will also have a massive intact on the transfer market too

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Defending is always about odds though. If you win say 8/10 50:50s you are an exceptional defender. If you have to deal with one situation a match, you have weeks of clean sheets. If you have to deal with 20 situations a match, you get beat 4-0 no matter how well you play. Dominating midfield makes a defenders life a piece of tinkle

Yeah it does but it doesn’t stop basic errors

The one shot I quoted above were basic errors that are fundamental to why we have conceded
City have a great defence on paper as they keep the ball so well. We have similar ish possession stats but concede from basic errors more. The greater midfielders in the world cannot account for errors from our defence that are unenforced

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

We've come up against the two best teams in the league, two of the very best in Europe, in recent weeks. Deserving a draw against Liverpool and deserving at least a draw against City, actually getting the win. Losing the Liverpool game to a late goalkeeping error whilst squandering our own chances.

I struggle to see how we've managed those performances, particularly defensively, if Sissoko bears no comparison to Kante other than stamina.

Palace is a good counter attacking team that we pretty much strangled for 90 minutes. Sissoko played a big part in that, it was down to more than stamina.

Dier will have to up his game to deserve a starting role over Sissoko right now based on form this season imo. In that most defensive midfield role.

Liverpools position in the league defies logic. They are a charge and hoof side and their midfield is nothing to write home about. They are a very physical team, something that suits us given our lack of quality/coherence.

Emirates Marketing Project did similar, foregoing their usual game and adopting a more physical and defensive approach. All commentary since the game states this played into our hands.

Im not sure your examples say what you think they say.

We have cobbled together something that works, it is (sort of) effective, but it is far from optimal. As ever, very few things in football are absolute and binary. You can play poorly and win, well and lose.

Sissoko doesnt play the same game as Kante. Which immediately makes the whole comparison obsolete anyway. And as I already stated, I dont want to drag that whole Sissoko debate up again. The point was simple, even his greatest apologists recognise he is fundamentally a limited footballer, and yet this same player is being hailed - that is how poor our midfield has been.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Yeah it does but it doesn’t stop basic errors

The one shot I quoted above were basic errors that are fundamental to why we have conceded
City have a great defence on paper as they keep the ball so well. We have similar ish possession stats but concede from basic errors more. The greater midfielders in the world cannot account for errors from our defence that are unenforced

Our defence, like the rest of the team, has suffered persistent injuries and been subject to constant change.

This will have an impact in a big way without it being directly because we need better players.

Add to which our midfield has constantly and consistently exposed them and the problem is just excacerbated.

 

[StephenH]

Liverpools position in the league defies logic.

Sorted out their defence/goalkeeper with judicious use of their chequebook. Largely they bypass midfield - front three 56 (75) goals

 

[SpurSF]

Sorted out their defence/goalkeeper with judicious use of their chequebook. Largely they bypass midfield - front three 56 (75) goals

They dropped 55 mil on Keita and 50 mil on Fabinho when they already had Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner, and Oxlade on the books. Pretty clear that CM was a massive focus for Liverpool.

 

[StephenH]

They dropped 55 mil on Keita and 50 mil on Fabinho when they already had Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner, and Oxlade on the books. Pretty clear that CM was a massive focus for Liverpool.

Shame they don't use it

 

[SpurSF]

Shame they don't use it

Haha, maybe they're not the most creative CM in the world, but it is a key reason why their defense has been the best in the Prem. Plus, having that control of the midfield allows Robertson and TAA bomb forward every 10 seconds. Their CM is absolutely crucial to what they do.

 

[Benny_Lad]

They are the same age (well there's a few months between them), so it's not necessarily about potential.

It just seems Grealish gets all the speculation because he is football's Danny Cipriani (tabloid front page fodder and a Joey Essex haircut), whereas McGinn is more talented and more effective, but has just quietly emerged from a more modest background

I didn't mention age, and potential isn't all about age. Potential might mean someone has a higher level of untapped ability that can be unlocked under the right surroundings.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They dropped 55 mil on Keita and 50 mil on Fabinho when they already had Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner, and Oxlade on the books. Pretty clear that CM was a massive focus for Liverpool.

Yep although I’d argue that haven’t added players that are that good

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Haha, maybe they're not the most creative CM in the world, but it is a key reason why their defense has been the best in the Prem. Plus, having that control of the midfield allows Robertson and TAA bomb forward every 10 seconds. Their CM is absolutely crucial to what they do.

Their shockingly bad creativity wise and they play 3 across the middle so their naturally more defensive

It’s is crucial that they bypass their midfield at every opportunity in attack and see them as the first line of their defence when needed though

 

[StephenH]

Haha, maybe they're not the most creative CM in the world, but it is a key reason why their defense has been the best in the Prem. Plus, having that control of the midfield allows Robertson and TAA bomb forward every 10 seconds. Their CM is absolutely crucial to what they do.

Thier midfield is largely an extra line of defensive interference thus diminishing pressure on their defence.
It’s why we have been more porous defensively this season.