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Harry Winks

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by elltrev, 27 Jul 2016.

  1. We are Tottenham

    We are Tottenham Steed Malbranque

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    We will win things if we fix that defence.
     
    FatBloke and metalgear like this.
  2. Jordinho

    Jordinho Bill Brown Staff Member

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    Plays a lot of safe/easy passes (which is not the same as backwards) to whoever is close to him, but what does he actually do that's useful for this team?
     
  3. Kandi1977

    Kandi1977 Luka Modric

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    I've asked that question myself, and I have tried to pay closer attention to him, and the answer is..... very little!
    Defensive solidity? No
    Positional awareness? No
    Tracking runs? No
    Creating chances? No
    Goal scoring threath? No
    Good tackling ability? No
    Ball winner? No
    Aerial ability? No
    Dribbling? No
    Technical ability? Yes
    Making easy 5 yard passes? Yes
    Passing backwards and sideways? Yes

    So what is he good for? My view is he's fine coming on 2 minutes from the end, when we're 5-0 up and the opposition has given up.
     
  4. Mikey10

    Mikey10 Roman Pavlyuchenko

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    He’s Tottenham through and through, though.
     
  5. JerusalemMan

    JerusalemMan Simon Davies

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    Winks could easily find himself replaced by Skipp next summer
     
  6. greatwhitenorf

    greatwhitenorf Clint Dempsey

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    Burn him. He's a witch.

    The cause of all our problems. Scatter his ashes at WHL and all our problems will be solved.
     
    Caitano likes this.
  7. AdamB

    AdamB Nayim

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    I dont think so. Sissoko will then be 32 and we'd have GLC, Winks, Skipp, Hojbjerg and Tubby as our CM options. Thats a decent group.

    As much as people berate Winks, you need people like him in a squad - home grown, loyal, doesnt complain etc. Just like how Emirates Marketing Project had Delph, Man U have Nicky Butt and Phil Neville - when they're in good patches of form they're very helpful, but otherwise they serve a purpose as squad players
     
    braineclipse likes this.
  8. Bishop

    Bishop Neil Ruddock

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    I agree with the principle but from that group that's only 3 quality CMs for 3 positions (Ndombele, GLC, Hojberg) with one promising player in Skipp. Arguably some of those players are also competing for the same position as well Ndombele/GLC and Hojberg/Skipp. Sissoko and Winks are indeed squad players but it seems one of them is likely to start and neither are of the required standard. To get to the position that It's and City were in at their strongest we need to bring in another starting quality CM especially of Ndubs and GLC will be sharing a starting berth.
     
    DaygoSpur likes this.
  9. JerusalemMan

    JerusalemMan Simon Davies

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    Replaced in the priority order then.
     
  10. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs George Hunt

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    We will Im sure
    And we also need to confirm the homegrown piece
    Jose won’t much around though and keep people for the sake of it
     
  11. parklane1

    parklane1 Gary Stevens

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    This.
     
  12. Spur of the moment

    Spur of the moment Pat van den Hauwe

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    Having watched my recording of the game again I was forced to the conclusion that I somewhat misjudged the much-maligned Harry Winks.

    Along with many posters on here I got thoroughly tinkled off with what appeared to be his infuriating, non-stop tendency to pass either backwards or sideways.

    But first I think we need to reappraise what initially appeared to be his suicidal back pass at the start of the second half. Because on rewatching It I came to realise that not only was his pass perfectly accurate at the moment it left his boot, but also - given he was surrounded by three close defenders - it was his only reasonable option in the circumstances.

    Unfortunately for him however, you can see that Sanchez momentarily misjudges the direction of the pass. Just as it's on his way to him he moves inexplicably to his right, thereby allowing it to run straight past him. Now in normal circumstances there's no way any competent defender would have allowed such a straightforward pass to run past him so easily, but Sanchez had wrong-footed himself.

    That in my book makes him the real culprit of the piece. To his great credit the Columbian then fully redeemed himself by performing a superbly-timed, even Ledley-esque, recovery tackle.

    Coming back to the perception of Winks's negative passing, I was surprised to discover that his distribution overall was actually far more positive than I'd at first thought. More surprisingly still, I noticed he'd also produced three high-quality, defence-splitting passes, including one real peach of a long-range ball five minutes before half time that fell right into the path of Gareth Bale.

    Lurking on the edge of the opposition box, the Welshman skillfully brought down Winks's 50-yarder but then immediately lost control under a challenge from the indomitable De Laet - just as he was about to shoot. Had Bale gone on to score from that pass I'm sure we'd now be singing Winksie's praises instead of cursing him to hell. Winks's two other quality long-range forward passes were straight to our in-form strikers on the edge of the box but neither Son nor Kane were able to take advantage.

    On the basis of these surprisingly positive contributions I decided to do an audit of his entire input over the whole 90 minutes, and here's what I found:

    Winks' contributions versus Antwerp:

    89 touches in total, of which -

    40 were forward passes (90% accuracy)
    13 were backward passes (91% accuracy)
    10 were sideways passes (400% accuracy)
    9 were tackles, 8 of which were won (88% success)
    8 were interceptions (400% success)
    5 were headers, 4 of which were won (80% success)
    3 were shots, 0 of which were on target (0% success)
    1 successful dribble (400% success) ​

    So whilst a fair percentage of his passes were indeed either sideways or backwards, his overall contribution was mostly positive. Good enough in an otherwise very forgettable contest to have earned him the award of Spurs MotM.
     
  13. 90291Spur

    90291Spur Steffen Iversen

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    Great analysis and way too fair and measured for a fan forum. Boo to that.

    We are an emotional bunch (except @scaramanga) and tend to let our emotions tint our Lillywhite Specs. Given how brutal Mou can be, I've no doubt Winks would be nowhere near the team if he didn't do things he liked.
     
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  14. parklane1

    parklane1 Gary Stevens

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    Good post and one i agree with totally, he gets a lot of unfair (IMO) stick from some on here but as they say its all a bout opinions. But Jose seems to rate him and those who want him to play fewer games for us will (IMO) be disapointed.
     
    Last edited: 30 Oct 2020
  15. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Frederic Kanoute

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    Some of us (well, ahem, me) were able to see that in real time. I was a bit puzzled at how much stick he got on here. I thought he was our best player in the first half.
     
  16. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs George Hunt

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    I didnt watch the game but knew form the comments he was being dug out as he is always the whipping boy
    I’ve shown it before on here and non-figuratively been told... “I watched the game myself and I know what I saw”
    The guys no messiah but he is no where near as bad as he is made out. It’s just an odd hatred IMO
     
    Gazza Dazzla likes this.
  17. Spur of the moment

    Spur of the moment Pat van den Hauwe

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    Like I say, hands up! I admit I've probably been guilty of underestimating his positives recently because of how he seems prone more than most to passing sideways and backwards. Maybe that is partly down to the exceptional high number of touches he gets in a game per se compared to othes around him but maybe also because he sees his role as a link man recycling possession and keeping the game flowing without necessarily dazzling every time he wins possession with a defence splitting forward pass a la Tanguy for example.
     
    Bedfordspurs likes this.
  18. Kandi1977

    Kandi1977 Luka Modric

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    He may pass forward more than it seems, but he just isn't progressive enough in my opinion. 2-3 good passes a game is really the bare minimum one can expect for a central midfielder. My main issue with him (or the team when he's in it), is that we rarely really look very solid and in control in midfield. You just know that someone will make a run that he doesn't pick up, and it happens non-figuratively every game he plays. Fortunately, we don't always get punished.
    Also, his seemingly lack of progression the last few years, is worrying. And he doesn't really have any stand out strengths. He's decent at a lot of things, but lacks that little bit of something extra. He's an OK squad player, but nothing more.
     
  19. Bishop

    Bishop Neil Ruddock

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    There is a confusion or a misunderstanding of the complaints. Yes many people say he only passes backwards (which is untrue) but the real complaint is that he typically only plays "safe." There are multiple opportunities per game when he could play an early forward pass and I believe he does have the technique to do so but instead he'll dither and play it backwards, sideways and sometimes forwards but the moment has already passed by that point.

    As a continuity player alongside a significantly more progressive passer such as GLC or Ndombele this trait isn't as frustrating but when he is paired with another momentum killer in Sissoko and he is the player expected to progress play hes seems mentally incapable of the task as was the case for much of last season.

    Against Antwerp GLC looked very off the boil bringing Winks more annoying traits to the forefront. The main issue was indeed GLC's lack of quality on the day but he obviously gets more allowance because of his slow return to fitness and fan favourite status. However I argue all day that Winks has become a largely negative passer since the return from his big injury there are times when playing that bit earlier is what is needed and whether those passes go eventually go forwards or not is not the complaint.
     
  20. Kandi1977

    Kandi1977 Luka Modric

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    Spot on!
     

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