Is football currently home

[Craig_J]

The three lions song is probably the greatest ever World Cup song but in all seriousness taking the message as literal would you say that football is currently at it's spiritual home in Brazil?

In Brazil they say that the English invented football but Brazil made it the beautiful game and I tend to agree. The way I see it it's like if two parents split up and the child is given to the parent that can give it the best care. In the case of football it would have to go to Brazil over England. England is backwards and sleazy still lauding over past glorys where as Brazil is prepared to go out there and make it happen now and today despite achieving far more than England.

England is lazy when it comes to producing it's own players. No one looks to step in because we fear becoming backwards and limiting our clubs in terms of competing with the rest of Europe. Brazil however has no fears as they are used to an 'English Premier League' which has almost anything but majority English players stealing what Brazil produces.

Even Germany is able to produce teams that can compete in Europe but also provide the entertaining football the fans want, the players the national teams want, the cheap prices the fans want... etc...

It seems to me that England is just a sperm donor to football that created it but not a real parent. And to be honest so long as English football is something that business people use to entertain their associates or simply a business in any shape or form we will sit here whilst football longs to be in it's spiritual home of Brazil where at least it is appreciated as something more than a money spinner.

 

[SpursLodge]

I think people tend to eulogise about Brazil when it comes to football and it gets right on my tits. Yes they play attacking football but they also cheat, Fred falling over for a pen against Croatia and they do stupid things too, Neymar Elbow on Modric, but people tend to forget that and bang on about how good they are going forward.

The fact is they were lucky against Croatia and got a 0-0 against Mexico, if that was us people would be having a go at the player that "dived" for the penalty and how we don't want to see that in our game and then we'd be saying how **** we are for not breaking down Mexico but because it's Brazil that doesn't happen.

English people at the moment think the world owes them a living for doing F all where as Brazilians know that if they do nothing they wont last long so it's not surprising they are a little more determined to make it as footballers as it's one of the best ways out of a sh1t life. The thing is, even with that and 3 times the population we have they are not exactly an amazing side when compared to us, or at least not on the evidence I've seen so far this world cup.

People tend to be down on England and I don't think a lot of it is fair. The grass isn't always greener.

Also, how is England backwards and Sleazy?

 

[clownfoot]

My first World Cup that I watched was 98 and Brazil were the forefront of everything. All the build up was about Ronaldo, he had his own boots for sale, there were famous adverts involving their squad. I got into all the older players and teams through that tournament, and realised how the sport developed with Brazil leading the way in terms of flair and entertainment. I suppose that is why I always associate Brazil with being the main footballing nation.

Football was England's gift to the world. Brazil is the world's gift to football.

 

[Neymar]

I think people tend to eulogise about Brazil when it comes to football and it gets right on my tits. Yes they play attacking football but they also cheat, Fred falling over for a pen against Croatia and they do stupid things too, Neymar Elbow on Modric, but people tend to forget that and bang on about how good they are going forward.

everyone cheats though. like the itv pundits have been saying, its a part of the game. fred falling over against croatia is a perfect example of how everyone cheats. had fred not collapsed, he wouldnt have won a pentaly for the slight tug that the croatian defender was giving him. last time i checked, defenders werent allowed to tug at attacker's shoulders. ie. the defender was also cheating.

everyone is a cheat in modern football. unless the rules are changed or actually enforced properly, this will continue. but its unfair to label only certain players or teams cheats, because everyone is at it.

back to the topic, i think both england and brazil can be rightly considered the home of football in their own ways.

 

[Craig_J]

I think people tend to eulogise about Brazil when it comes to football and it gets right on my tits. Yes they play attacking football but they also cheat, Fred falling over for a pen against Croatia and they do stupid things too, Neymar Elbow on Modric, but people tend to forget that and bang on about how good they are going forward.

The fact is they were lucky against Croatia and got a 0-0 against Mexico, if that was us people would be having a go at the player that "dived" for the penalty and how we don't want to see that in our game and then we'd be saying how **** we are for not breaking down Mexico but because it's Brazil that doesn't happen.

English people at the moment think the world owes them a living for doing F all where as Brazilians know that if they do nothing they wont last long so it's not surprising they are a little more determined to make it as footballers as it's one of the best ways out of a sh1t life. The thing is, even with that and 3 times the population we have they are not exactly an amazing side when compared to us, or at least not on the evidence I've seen so far this world cup.

People tend to be down on England and I don't think a lot of it is fair. The grass isn't always greener.

Also, how is England backwards and Sleazy?

I mean in terms of football although sleazy wasn't the best word, lazy might be more appropriate. We haven't developed our game much at all over the last few years and the young talent in this nation isn't getting the help it needs to thrive. That's why we've become reliant on foreign managers to bring in new ideas to change the way our clubs play and foreign players who are able to play that way.

 

[clownfoot]

I mean in terms of football although sleazy wasn't the best word, lazy might be more appropriate. We haven't developed our game much at all over the last few years and the young talent in this nation isn't getting the help it needs to thrive. That's why we've become reliant on foreign managers to bring in new ideas to change the way our clubs play and foreign players who are able to play that way.

English football has been lagging, at least in terms of technique and tactics, since Hungary beat them 6-3 in 1953

 

[Neymar]

english football plays under different rules all the way from grass roots level. its no surprise that they don't play so well when they play under different rules at international level.

 

[milo]

English football has been lagging, at least in terms of technique and tactics, since Hungary beat them 6-3 in 1953

There is a school of thought that winning the World Cup in 66 was the worst thing that happened to England. It embedded a way of playing into our football culture that we have still not entirely shaked off, whereas Germany looked at how they played and became very progressive and open to new ideas.

I don't like the modern Brazil. They are dull to watch and too reliant on one or two excellent players. If you put them in a different shirt, people would not get half as excited.

 

[johnola]

I love five a side much more than the full game. Where did that start?

 

[johnola]

english football plays under different rules all the way from grass roots level. its no surprise that they don't play so well when they play under different rules at international level.

Eh?

 

[jts1882]

Chapman and Arsenal introduced or popularised the first centre back in the late 1920s.

Brazil introduced the second centre-back in the 50s. Some extremely talented players have disguised the pragmatic and organised approach Brazil have taken. The current team, like that of 1994, is hardly the soul of football.

 

[Neymar]

Eh?

english (british) football lets players get away with more fouls and physical challenges than anywhere else in the world. it is quite unique in this sense. therefore players who succeed in english football are generally those who can cope with a more phyiscal game. at international competitions, these same players are just left wondering how their opposition thinks diving is "a part of the game".

the best two english midfielders of the past decade are lampard and gerrard. for spain it is xavi and iniesta. for me, this is simply the result of one country encouraging a more physical game, and the other encouraging a more technical game. the rest of the world generally err towards playing more "technically", and therefore its understandable that the likes of gerrard and lampard will struggle, when the refererring favors technical players.

 

[milo]

english (british) football lets players get away with more fouls and physical challenges than anywhere else in the world. it is quite unique in this sense. therefore players who succeed in english football are generally those who can cope with a more phyiscal game. at international competitions, these same players are just left wondering how their opposition thinks diving is "a part of the game".

the best two english midfielders of the past decade are lampard and gerrard. for spain it is xavi and iniesta. for me, this is simply the result of one country encouraging a more physical game, and the other encouraging a more technical game. the rest of the world generally err towards playing more "technically", and therefore its understandable that the likes of gerrard and lampard will struggle, when the refererring favors technical players.

I don't agree that there is a British v the rest of the world split. Most northern and eastern European sides have had a physical element to their game. Argentina and Uruguay have never been afraid of mixing it either.

I do think that you are right to draw comparisons with Spain though but the key difference for me here is how they approach youth development.

 

[Danners9]

This Brazilian style is a myth, apart from a handful of great players the teams since 1982 have been quite average. Sure they've won things, largely due to the brilliance of Romario, Rivaldo, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho, but as a collective unit the teams have become more functional than exciting.

They are more 'European' in style than the embodiment of everything the marketing of Brazil wants us to think. Not a surprise since there was a wave of player exports to Europe after just a few good games and the coaches are now used to the European style.

Brazil should be playing like Chile last night if they want to live up to the stereotype, but they don't do that very often. It's the difference between carrying on that street/beach football individualism into the structured and restricted team environment where winning has become more important than entertaining - of course they could aim for both, as they used to.

 

[milo]

This Brazilian style is a myth, apart from a handful of great players the teams since 1982 have been quite average. Sure they've won things, largely due to the brilliance of Romario, Rivaldo, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho, but as a collective unit the teams have become more functional than exciting.

They are more 'European' in style than the embodiment of everything the marketing of Brazil wants us to think. Not a surprise since there was a wave of player exports to Europe after just a few good games and the coaches are now used to the European style.

Brazil should be playing like Chile last night if they want to live up to the stereotype, but they don't do that very often. It's the difference between carrying on that street/beach football individualism into the structured and restricted team environment where winning has become more important than entertaining - of course they could aim for both, as they used to.

I agree