Daniel Levy - Chairman

[DubaiSpur]

For years i've been vocally anti levy, like a small minority.

Do we think this is now a majority? Surely now, people can finally see why he's not fit to run our club? sooner he's gone the better. Dont need to hear the "better the devil you know" lark. For me, he's a business man here to make money. And he's done that well. but the fans should demand better. hopefully now folks wake up to the fact he's not interested in on pitch success. it's a culture issue from the top.

It's not a majority, yet. But I think an ever-larger percentage of fans are starting to turn on ENIC - at least, the number of folks that outright defend them have dropped significantly, and now the main argument I see around here and elsewhere is something to the tune of 'be careful what you wish for'.

As the years roll on and the limitations and failings of their deadweight ownership model become ever clear, I'm optimistic that more and more fans will see the truth of the matter. Already most fans online have turned against ENIC - this place is a rare holdout (maybe the only one) where there's still a large pro-ENIC contingent. The trick is translating that to the matchday crowd, and given our away crowds have also frequently turned on Levy this season, it's a matter of getting the much larger home crowd to follow suit.

So, cautiously optimistic mate.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Levy is fair game for criticism.[...] But he undoubtedly wants on-field success for us. He just has different ideas to us on how to achieve it.

Suffice it to say, I disagree mate.

He's many things, but he's not stupid. He's been here 25 years and success remains as elusive as ever. We are, now, right where we were when he took over - a patchwork squad built on the cheap, prioritising young signings over readymade talent, hovering in lower mid-table with the occasional flirtation with relegation. In 25 years, we have barely progressed on the field.

I think it's fairer to say, he *wouldn't mind* success. It would be a nice bonus. But it is not his priority, and never will be. He doesn't *want* it. He just wants to keep ENIC's investment value constant, with as little personal investment as possible - and if he can keep paying himself the highest salary in the league to contribute basically nothing, that's great too.

Owners that *want* success don't behave like he does for 25 years.

 

[Bishop]

That's not a fact and it doesn't help your argument to keep saying it.

Levy is fair game for criticism. There are lots of sticks to beat him with as there are many sticks to defend him with. But he undoubtedly wants on-field success for us. He just has different ideas to us on how to achieve it. Given that he knows about running a club, given that he has ultimate responsibility for multi-million pound transactions, given that his personal wealth is tied up in the club, that's not surprising. Trying to characterise him so one-dimensionally isn't fair.

If he was interested he wouldn't have sacked Mourinho a week before a cup final. Jose was a terrible coach for us but there's no one with any sense in their brain that could think that Mason would be a better bet than the man who has repeatedly won cup finals whilst being the under dog.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Suffice it to say, I disagree mate.

He's many things, but he's not stupid. He's been here 25 years and success remains as elusive as ever. We are, now, right where we were when he took over - a patchwork squad built on the cheap, prioritising young signings over readymade talent, hovering in lower mid-table with the occasional flirtation with relegation. In 25 years, we have barely progressed on the field.

I think it's fairer to say, he *wouldn't mind* success. It would be a nice bonus. But it is not his priority, and never will be. He doesn't *want* it. He just wants to keep ENIC's investment value constant, with as little personal investment as possible - and if he can keep paying himself the highest salary in the league to contribute basically nothing, that's great too.

Owners that *want* success don't behave like he does for 25 years.

Thought you might which is fair enough. You do often raise good arguments and you’re consistent.

We aren’t where we were when ENIC bought us in my view. For almost 20 years, we were better than we’d been for the 15 years that went before it. That’s demonstrated by the league finishes. One bad season doesn’t reset all of that.

I do believe Levy is and has been too cautious financially at times both in terms of transfer spend and wages. But, to be fair, we’ve been the third (I think) highest spenders on transfers since the stadium opened. And @ricky2tricky4city did make a good point on Levy’s (in)ability to inject his own funds into the club…he simply doesn’t have what’s needed himself.

The reason I believe Levy wants on field success when you get past all of the above is fairly simple. And it may be open to derision. Does any other chairman attend as many games as him? He’s there week in and week out even when he’s getting abused. He was up in Tamworth last week freezing his nuts off. In the early rounds of a competition that’s worth next to nothing to us financially. Why would he do that if he only cared about the value of his investment? I go to a few games a season. I only do it because I love the club and desperately want to see the team be successful. It’s the same for Levy IMO.

 

[DeanoAustin]

If he was interested he wouldn't have sacked Mourinho a week before a cup final. Jose was a terrible coach for us but there's no one with any sense in their brain that could think that Mason would be a better bet than the man who has repeatedly won cup finals whilst being the under dog.

It was a really poor decision and he rightly gets pelters for it. I think it was absolute madness. But it doesn’t settle the argument definitively for me. There’s lots we don’t know about that and one incident, whatever the truth is, doesn’t absolutely prove anything IMO.

 

[Bishop]

It was a really poor decision and he rightly gets pelters for it. I think it was absolute madness. But it doesn’t settle the argument definitively for me. There’s lots we don’t know about that and one incident, whatever the truth is, doesn’t absolutely prove anything IMO.

Sure and I respect your view but for me it was just the latest in a catalogue of evidence to both his ill-suitment to the job and the order of his priorities. It's super clear to me that ultimately success on the pitch is not of paramount importance for Levy. He has shown me that multiple times.

 

[DubaiSpur]

We aren’t where we were when ENIC bought us in my view. For almost 20 years, we were better than we’d been for the 15 years that went before it. That’s demonstrated by the league finishes. One bad season doesn’t reset all of that.

It isn't just one bad season in isolation mate. Look at the pattern since Poch was sacked - it's been one season in and around the top six, one season out of it in mid-table. 6th in 19-20, 7th in 20-21, 4th in 21-22, 8th in 22-23, 5th in 23-24, and now looking on course for roughly 14th-15th in 24-25.

Slowly but surely, we're losing even the one thing he could point to as progress - consistency in finishing in the top six. It's why I say we're back (or going back) to where we were when he got here.

I do believe Levy is and has been too cautious financially at times both in terms of transfer spend and wages. But, to be fair, we’ve been the third (I think) highest spenders on transfers since the stadium opened. And @ricky2tricky4city did make a good point on Levy’s (in)ability to inject his own funds into the club…he simply doesn’t have what’s needed himself.

We're the third highest spenders in terms of fees. We are bottom of the table in terms of wages to revenue - by a huge margin. 20th in the league for percentage of revenue spent on wages.

This has been his MO for 25 years, it's not new. Several years in the 2000s saw us spend big on fees but absolutely scrimp on wages, ending up with unproven talent or young talent instead of readymade players. This then took its attendant toll on league performances. This practice has continued into today, without change.

The reason I believe Levy wants on field success when you get past all of the above is fairly simple. And it may be open to derision. Does any other chairman attend as many games as him? He’s there week in and week out even when he’s getting abused.

I don't think it's a reason for derision at all - it's a fair point. But I'd counter by saying this - what else does he have to do in his life?

Levy was an absolute nonentity before Spurs. The club is his entire life. Before Spurs, he was best known for running his cheapo Mr. Byrite discount clothing store, which suits his personality to a tee.

He pays himself to go to games, sit above the plebs and take it all in. Plus, with him hanging around like a stench for 25 years, he's now the longest-serving chairman in the league, which brings him a certain status in the world of football that he hasn't got anywhere else.

So, my counterpoint would be - going to games makes him feel important and involved. But by itself, it doesn't indicate any particular desire for success to me - if that were the case, he'd change his behaviour after 25 years of failing to achieve it.

 

[DeanoAustin]

It isn't just one bad season in isolation mate. Look at the pattern since Poch was sacked - it's been one season in and around the top six, one season out of it in mid-table. 6th in 19-20, 7th in 20-21, 4th in 21-22, 8th in 22-23, 5th in 23-24, and now looking on course for roughly 14th-15th in 24-25.

Slowly but surely, we're losing even the one thing he could point to as progress - consistency in finishing in the top six. It's why I say we're back (or going back) to where we were when he got here.



We're the third highest spenders in terms of fees. We are bottom of the table in terms of wages to revenue - by a huge margin. 20th in the league for percentage of revenue spent on wages.

This has been his MO for 25 years, it's not new. Several years in the 2000s saw us spend big on fees but absolutely scrimp on wages, ending up with unproven talent or young talent instead of readymade players. This then took its attendant toll on league performances. This practice has continued into today, without change.



I don't think it's a reason for derision at all - it's a fair point. But I'd counter by saying this - what else does he have to do in his life?

Levy was an absolute nonentity before Spurs. The club is his entire life. Before Spurs, he was best known for running his cheapo Mr. Byrite discount clothing store, which suits his personality to a tee.

He pays himself to go to games, sit above the plebs and take it all in. Plus, with him hanging around like a stench for 25 years, he's now the longest-serving chairman in the league, which brings him a certain status in the world of football that he hasn't got anywhere else.

So, my counterpoint would be - going to games makes him feel important and involved. But by itself, it doesn't indicate any particular desire for success to me - if that were the case, he'd change his behaviour after 25 years of failing to achieve it.

Fair enough mate. Some good points in there and I’ve always agreed on the wages one. However, unlike you and many others, I do believe he wants on field success but has his own ideas on how to achieve it.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I know how strongly you feel on this one.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Fair enough mate. Some good points in there and I’ve always agreed on the wages one. However, unlike you and many others, I do believe he wants on field success but has his own ideas on how to achieve it.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I know how strongly you feel on this one.

Fair enough mate, and likewise, think you make some good points.

 

[Baleforce]

Essentially Levy gets a never ending pocket of time to operate in with some of our fanbase.

Not never ending, but he took over a wreck, and dragged it back to the top of the game.

Progress isn’t linear.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Emery and Arteta both play an attacking brand of football and look to be in the front foot. It might not be like for like, but it’s a similar philosophy. Totally different to us who go from one style to another.

Arsenal IMO don’t play attacking football
They don’t even have a striker on their squad

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Essentially Levy gets a never ending pocket of time to operate in with some of our fanbase.

I don’t think that is true at all
I think for most fans there is the recognition that he isn’t going anywhere so discussing it and arguing is pointless. I may be wrong
I also believe main fans, the majority would have no issue with new owners and would welcome them.
There will be extremes on both sides of course
The fans will never get an owner out do a club of our scale and value
They can’t even do it at reading and Sheffield

 

[parklane1]

That's not a fact and it doesn't help your argument to keep saying it.

Levy is fair game for criticism. There are lots of sticks to beat him with as there are many sticks to defend him with. But he undoubtedly wants on-field success for us. He just has different ideas to us on how to achieve it. Given that he knows about running a club, given that he has ultimate responsibility for multi-million pound transactions, given that his personal wealth is tied up in the club, that's not surprising. Trying to characterise him so one-dimensionally isn't fair.

They do say that Haters have to Hate.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Not never ending, but he took over a wreck, and dragged it back to the top of the game.

Progress isn’t linear.

It’s been going backwards for the best part of 5-6 years now. And top of the game is actually the top, not 2nd and 3rd.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Arsenal IMO don’t play attacking football
They don’t even have a striker on their squad

They dominate possession and look to play on the front foot, they’re not a defensive side or a counter attacking side. The lack of a striker thing is just weird, it’s such a glaring weakness, I think he’s just deluded that he thinks he can win the league with Jesus and Havertz.

 

[Baleforce]

It’s been going backwards for the best part of 5-6 years now. And top of the game is actually the top, not 2nd and 3rd.

Dropped back slightly under Jose (from Poch’s high, but was still much better than his last 18 months), picked up again under Conte, now dropped back again.

Being in the CL is the top of the game, the PL is just a filter for that.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don’t think that is true at all
I think for most fans there is the recognition that he isn’t going anywhere so discussing it and arguing is pointless. I may be wrong
I also believe main fans, the majority would have no issue with new owners and would welcome them.
There will be extremes on both sides of course
The fans will never get an owner out do a club of our scale and value
They can’t even do it at reading and Sheffield

Things won’t change if do nothing I agree, that’s why fans need to make their voices heard, or vote with their feet. I find it really odd how people deride the protesters. Almost like they should have endless patience and never question anything.

 

[Baleforce]

Things won’t change if do nothing I agree, that’s why fans need to make their voices heard, or vote with their feet. I find it really odd how people deride the protesters. Almost like they should have endless patience and never question anything.

But those voices will never be heard.

Spurs will change hands when someone offers billions.

You want change, have a word with your bank manager.

We deride the protesters because they don’t have a message, there is no coherent ask, it’s not a thought through manifesto, they are only bringing questions.

 

[Muttley]

But those voices will never be heard.

Spurs will change hands when someone offers billions.

You want change, have a word with your bank manager.

We deride the protesters because they don’t have a message, there is no coherent ask, it’s not a thought through manifesto, they are only bringing questions.

Leadership is about constant learning, but there comes a point where you plateau based on your natural abilities. Then you have to bring people in that can go further than you in a specific area. It doesn't mean you're not still the leader. As a leader, that becomes your superpower, knowing how to build the right team around you, and to empower them.

I often chuckle when I read "Levy this" or "Levy that" when it comes to football. Levy has some amazing capabilities in business, but has always lacked football DNA. So has John Henry, Sheikh Mansaur and so did Abramovich. Todd Boehly is learning the hard way, and has already retreated and self adjusted. Eventually all of these great leaders realise that there is always someone smarter than them on a specific field of expertise that they want to be successful at. So they hire them, and empower them.

I cringe when I hear Levy is "hiring" or "firing" a manager. I cringe when I read Levy is "negotiating" on a player. I cringed when I saw Levy on the Amazon doc having football conversations. I have mates that run Step 5 football clubs who know more.

There is nothing wrong with ENIC if our CEO just played his natural position in the company and hired the right specialists in the field he chose to invest in. Eventually, Levy will realise this, but it is taking him a very long time. You have to question whether it will become a permanent gap in his make up.

I sometimes think being a Spurs fan is the hardest part for Levy.

 

[Jurgen the German]

But those voices will never be heard.

Spurs will change hands when someone offers billions.

You want change, have a word with your bank manager.

We deride the protesters because they don’t have a message, there is no coherent ask, it’s not a thought through manifesto, they are only bringing questions.

They want new owners. The tone on here is that people shouldn’t protest and they’re crazy for being unhappy with the owners we have. The starting point is always to get rid of the manager or owner, then you get the person you want to replace them. Or you could do it like West Ham and flirt with your next manager in public whilst asking the current lame duck coach to take training.