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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Raziel said:
You are counting CL matches, the actual performance in the league is 2 wins in last 16 matches.

The issue for Frank, and I totally agree with @thfcsteff he has not been helped by the club (for me January window was criminal negligence/incompetence), is it's too late for just visual improvements. IF we saw what we saw in the last few games in November, maybe that would be some cause for optimism, but he's 37 games in and we can't buy a fudging win in the league.

Can you imagine the stadium if we lose against Saudi Sportswashing Machine then are 2 or 3 nil down at half time to the Scum?
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The reason I'm only counting those games, is they are the only games that have shown any hope. Maybe, just maybe, he is turning the tide, and it wouldn't matter whether it's November or now.

In your scenario for the next two games, he probably goes and we find a caretaker. We have three games in March that are much more crucial.
 
Lemonade Money said:
The reason I'm only counting those games, is they are the only games that have shown any hope. Maybe, just maybe, he is turning the tide, and it wouldn't matter whether it's November or now.

In your scenario for the next two games, he probably goes and we find a caretaker. We have three games in March that are much more crucial.
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The issue is we are running out of games, I always felt he needed 4 points out of February (as hard as that is) to survive. IF we lose the next two, it's an unimaginable risk to give him March (Palace & Forest at home are must wins at this point).

A caretaker on the 23rd gets a week, and the possibility that new manager bounce gets us those points.
 
Raziel said:
You are counting CL matches, the actual performance in the league is 2 wins in last 16 matches.

The issue for Frank, and I totally agree with @thfcsteff he has not been helped by the club (for me January window was criminal negligence/incompetence), is it's too late for just visual improvements. IF we saw what we saw in the last few games in November, maybe that would be some cause for optimism, but he's 37 games in and we can't buy a fudging win in the league.

Can you imagine the stadium if we lose against Saudi Sportswashing Machine then are 2 or 3 nil down at half time to the Scum?
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I think alot of people were already saying, that seeing how we performed in the 4 x February games would ultimately determine what happens in summer as there were signs before February of better football, and much better performance's.

I think we should just continue to get behind the team TF for now, and see what they can do.
 
billyiddo said:
You're smart enough to know that league performance is a better indicator of quality so don't waste my time with these bad faith arguments.

@tommysvr here's another one
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And you’re smart enough to know that our league finish last season was at least somewhat explained by us massively prioritising th e Europa League (and rightly so)

If you think that bottom quarter of the league is Spurs’ rightful position then what was the point in paying big money to sack the last manager and bring this one in? Also if bottom quarter of the league is our rightful position then surely we were silly to sack a manager that massively out performed that with a 5th place finish in his first season?

The only people wasting anyone’s time are the Tottenham hierarchy in keeping this awful manager in a job.
 
Finney Is Back said:
And you’re smart enough to know that our league finish last season was at least somewhat explained by us massively prioritising th e Europa League (and rightly so)

The only people wasting anyone’s time are the Tottenham hierarchy in keeping this awful manager in a job.
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I only buy that argument to a point. To be manager of Spurs, you have to manage ALL competitions, not just the one you happen to be doing better in. It’s one of the things that really irked me about Ange. He essentially wrote off the league campaign and said we would have finished higher if not for the Europa league. I think that line of cavalier thinking (and results) were what cost him his job in the end. I was still furious with our league finish despite being over the moon at winning the EL. Now it’s starting to look like the team aren’t actually that good. We have nearly 2 seasons worth of league campaigns as evidence. You can’t prioritise one competition to the point that you finish 17th in the league.
 
Finney Is Back said:
And you’re smart enough to know that our league finish last season was at least somewhat explained by us massively prioritising th e Europa League (and rightly so)

If you think that bottom quarter of the league is Spurs’ rightful position then what was the point in paying big money to sack the last manager and bring this one in? Also if bottom quarter of the league is our rightful position then surely we were silly to sack a manager that massively out performed that with a 5th place finish in his first season?

The only people wasting anyone’s time are the Tottenham hierarchy in keeping this awful manager in a job.
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I don't think nor am I saying it's pur rightful position - only that it is what Frank walked in to - he didn't walk in to a top 6 team, he walked in to a team that was tracking at a very low level, I thought it would be an easier job to turn around that extended level of poor performance than it has proven to be so far.
 
billyiddo said:
Does any of that change the point that he came in to a job where the team was playing well? No.



I don't think anyone would or even is disputing that managerial changes can have a positive effect - but to keep harping on about this one particular change as though it's an indicator of what would happen here despite the differing situations is just not worth making. Why not Ange or Dyche at Forest, oh yeah that doesn't suit the point
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I could be wrong but I think that Forest have picked up considerably more points than we have since Dyche took over there.
 
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tommysvr said:
You're taking the literal position we finished in and nothing more though. No further context to why we've struggled over the last 2 seasons.
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I totally agree with you on this. Frank took over a 17th placed finishing team that finished 13 points above 18th, suffered an unprecedented injury crisis and still managed to win a European trophy by beating teams that have taken points off of eg Emirates Marketing Project this season. The idea that we were in any way actually the 17th best team to take over for him, I just think is total nonsense.

That said, I find myself being fascinated and quite impressed by the club’s ability to seemingly make a big bet and be willing to stick it through. I am slightly worried about relegation, but in the same way I think it is ridiculous to denigrate Ange’s coaching without applying the context, I think it’s fair to give the same context to Frank. And I hate when a club just goes by ‘results aren’t good enough’ and I like that our club are seemingly holding firm on a plan with an eye on a long term goal.

If the idea was that Ange did a good job all things considered, but that the game was changing, we needed someone willing to be flexible to be effective in this new direct football we were going to see, AND we wanted a manager that had proven longevity in a club previously because we see committing to something long term as a strategic advantage for us, then actually I love what we’re doing. And as long as we don’t get relegated I’m really interested to see where it goes.

Frank has been getting terrible results. But I’m willing to look upon this season as a complete transition to a whole new way of playing football. That would explain the bad start with less injuries, and now I have some sympathy for the amount of injuries he has. And I think next season will be better. We just cannot get relegated.
 
Mikey10 said:
Doing that consistently probably is tbf.

I know we’re not supposed to bring up the quality of the teams in the EL last year on here, and that we’re (according to some) denigrating the club’s achievement if we do, but it is a fact that it was poor, with - for the first time - no CL teams dropping down. The final was played between two teams who finished right on the edge of relegation from the PL.

It was a great night; we were all delighted that we broke our trophy drought; and it was something else to see Sonny lift a cup before he left. But the fact that we were favourites to win the competition before it kicked off told its own story.
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We were favourites before it started because we qualified by finishing 5th in the PL.
 
billyiddo said:
The reason this discussion kicked off is because I tried to add some context to the 'worst top 6 manager' table that Raz posted - highlighting that Frank didn't take over a top 6 team.

Pointing out that simple fact seems to have rattled some cages.
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Ignore the ‘top 6 club’ thing. Instead concentrate on the fact that Frank is the 3rd worst manager we’ve had since the inception of the premier league if using a metric of points per game (a reasonable metric I’d say)
 
Finney Is Back said:
Ignore the ‘top 6 club’ thing. Instead concentrate on the fact that Frank is the 3rd worst manager we’ve had since the inception of the premier league if using a metric of points per game (a reasonable metric I’d say)
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How many of those other managers took over from the worst league performance in our history? None

Frank will rightly get sacked if he can't improve on last seasons level by a decent degree - no arguments there.
 
Lemonade Money said:
I would consider only the last five matches have seen performances with hope of Frank turning things around, and football that's not awful. The results from those are W2 D2 L1. Let's see if that continues before losing our brick. And we've always got 'Arry in reserve.
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1 point out of 9 in the PL, despite playing 2 out of the bottom 3!

If that continues we’re down and looking at administration.
 
Lemonade Money said:
The reason I'm only counting those games, is they are the only games that have shown any hope. Maybe, just maybe, he is turning the tide, and it wouldn't matter whether it's November or now.

In your scenario for the next two games, he probably goes and we find a caretaker. We have three games in March that are much more crucial.
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One of those games was against a team already out and with nothing to play for. The other game we played against 10 men for about 70 minutes of the game.

Fact they are the only games that have shown any hope is really worrying.
 
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