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Jason Roberts claim

Andy Cole may have rapped, but Diamond Light's didn't stop Hoddle getting the England job. You may be onto something...

I think in the future, with the help of people like Jason Roberts raising the issue, more black players will come through to become top level managers.
 
I agree with most of Neywar's post, apart from the use of John Terry as the opposite example to Rio: i think his behaviour is straight from the gutter in anyone's eyes and I don't see how any chairman could look at it as managerial material. A better example would have perhaps been Frank Lampard who is from a footballing family, is articulate enough to be media friendly/savvy ( likely due to his public school background) and probably able to talk the lingo that would chime more readily at this stage with boards and chairmen.

I also agree that the likes of Jason Roberts raising the issue may more likely lead to black players coming through towards management roles. I believe time may change the demographic naturally. In addition, I actually think because RSol is such a cnut he may be one of the first of the 'next generation' of black managers in years to come...!

I am still intrugued to find out from Roy1983 why the sight of Garth Crooks (a former Yid who is often biased towards THFC might I add) and Mark Bright ("fellow busy body") "fustrates him".
Any chance you could delve into your soul a little deeper Roy and tell us??
 
yeah , am not fooled by this

Racism in football exists...but have to agree with the OP in that people like money more than their dislike prejudices for skin colour in a lot of situations....if they are THAT good then they would get a job

the problem is getting a chance in the first place in order to show you are THAT good
 
http://www.theguardian.com/football...ylor-hidden-racism-black-managers-rooney-rule

Gordon Taylor has accused football sides of “a hidden racism which holds clubs back” when it comes to appointing black managers and called for the introduction of the “Rooney Rule” in use in American football to ensure that black candidates have an adequate representation on interview shortlists for coaching positions.

The chief executive of the Professional Footballers’ Association told the BBC that the appointment of black players as coaches “should be based on merit” and he said that they had “merit as players and merit as coaches”.

He added: “I can give you a list of black players who’ve become coaches, who’ve got their A licence, who’ve got their B licence, who’ve gone all the way up the ranks, they’ve got the pro-licence and aren’t getting opportunities. So I know for a fact they’ve got that merit but there is a hidden racism that seems to hold clubs back.”

Taylor praised Huddersfield for appointing Chris Powell after he was sacked by Charlton in March though he is now only one of two black managers employed by the 92 clubs in English football along with Keith Curle at Carlisle.

“Can we not have a recruitment process that is open and transparent and contains black, asian, minority or ethnic people who are qualified? said Taylor.

“They have the Rooney Rule in gridiron because they similarly had a high number of black players but no black coaches. The rule was introduced to say look, at least make sure you’ve interviewed some of these players who want to stay in the game and then they found, not unsurprisingly, that they had some real quality players who became top-class black coaches. But in this country that’s not happened and we are merely asking for a recruitment process that is open and transparent and does exactly that.”

Taylor follows the former Blackburn manager Paul Ince in calling for the introduction of the Rooney Rule. Ince said of the current system: “I don’t think it’s always been about the best candidate.

“It’s hard to say that the people are racist and won’t give you a job because you’re black, but it does make you wonder why there aren’t so many black managers and coaches.”

The man who gave his name to the rule said that British club owners should recognise that their options would be significantly widened by the addition of black candidates to their shortlists.

Dan Rooney, the owner of Pittsburgh Steelers who helped put forward the NFL regulation in 2002, told the BBC: “I would tell British clubs that if they would look at this openly they will find this is a positive thing.

“The plus side of this is you’re increasing your list of people to look at and it would really work. I couldn’t recommend it enough for the teams in Britain.

“It may take a little bit of work. But it would be a plus to the teams, to the league itself. When you think about it they have nothing to lose.”

The Premier League said: “The situation that brought about the introduction of the ‘Rooney Rule’ in the NFL is markedly different to football. But our ultimate goal is the same.

“What we want to achieve, by working with the FA, Football League, managers and coaches, is more and better coaches coming through the English system who can progress to the highest levels of the game on merit and regardless of race, ethnicity, gender or background.”
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I was wondering if someone knows more about the Rooney rule could clear something up. If the Rooney Rule was in place in 2008 when Spurs had sacked Juande Ramos and already had Redknapp lined up as his replacement, would they then be obliged to interview a black manager even though they had their man in line?

I think the rule itself can only be beneficial but wondered what the intricacies of the rules are
 
How does it work in practice? Do you have invoke it yourself or do you just put 'black manager' on your CV? Does Ryan Giggs count as a black manager?
 
clownfoot said:
I think the rule itself can only be beneficial but wondered what the intricacies of the rules are
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i disagree. if this rule comes in, there will be candidates who would otherwise have got jobs that now won't. because the selection process will not be based purely on suitability/ability.
 
it shouldn't affect who actually gets the job

personally i think its a waste of time, if the premise is "chairman of club x is racist" and he/she is made to interview a minority candidate they are not gonna have a road to damascus moment are they, "my GHod, i've never heard zonal marking explained that way before, i renounce my societally ingrained racism!"
 
galeforce said:
it shouldn't affect who actually gets the job

personally i think its a waste of time, if the premise is "chairman of club x is racist" and he/she is made to interview a minority candidate they are not gonna have a road to damascus moment are they, "my GHod, i've never heard zonal marking explained that way before, i renounce my societally ingrained racism!"
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of course it affects who gets the job. interviewing candidates takes time and money. if 10% of the applicants must be black, and the club can only afford to interview 10 applicants, then 9 will be non-black, and one will be black. if the club has received 100 cvs, and the top 10 cv's are by non-black candidates, then the 10th best cv will be ditched for the best black candidates cv. that 10th non-black candidate might just have been the one to impress at the interview, and eventually get the job.

but ultitmately, i wholeheartedly agree with your 2nd point. and at the end of the day, racism in this manner only hurts the owner if he is racist. only he suffers from having a smaller pool of candidates to choose from.
 
I'd be amazed if any club interviewed more than a handful of candidates, i'd expect the average to be 2/3, and it doesn't cost anything to interview someone. Clubs are still gonna interview everyone they are interested in, they'll just add one more if none of their choices tick the diversity box.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem, i'm saying this isn't a solution. People will point at NFL coaches (Dungy/Tomlin) who've had success, but they were damn good NFL coaches, they didn't get into a room because they were black, they got into the room because of their body of work.
 
I think time will take care of it. There used to be a few black players in the league, this then became a few per squad. Now it's fairly common for a given starting XI to be evenly split between black, white and mixed race players. As these players retire, the pool of black ex-pros grows ever larger and from this group, there will be those who go into coaching and management.

What I want to know is, why are there so many Scottish managers?
 
Rorschach said:
Er...what??
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Giggs is mixed-race; apparently his paternal grandfather is from Sierra Leone and he is said to have faced racism as a child.
I'm sure I remember reading back in the day that he and Paul Ince used to joke with each other as to who was the best looking black player at Man U at the time (or something like that).

Anyway, he just shows how much of perfection racism can often be when based on skin colour. I have known people who had mixed parents who were actually blond-haired and blue-eyed...
 
Ross Barkley is another player who is mixed-race and might not be obviously so to many....his dad is Nigerian.

Amanda Mealing, Actress from Holby City, has a father that is half-Sierra Leonian, though she looks like what would be referred to as a 'typical English Rose'..

Perhaps Chiwetel Ejiofor (a guy I went to school with btw:cool:) is right when he says that the concept of "Race" is an invention...:-k
 
i think another reason why we see less black managers proportionately, is because of how their playing styles are perceived.

ie. A lot of black players are pacey players (proportionately). And often pace is a big part of their game. Often for these types of players, there is a perception that they lack other skillsets such as "tactical nouse", which are thought to be paramount in a football managers role.

if we go through england players and compare white players to their black counterparts, i hope it illustrates my point:

terry/rio jagielka/lescott baines/cole - comparing these defenders, im sure most people would feel that the white players are tactically superior, whilst the black players are the better athletes.

at rb, all of johnson, walker, richards are perceived as tactically incept

almost all of our cm's are white. i think this suggests that there are perhaps massive problems with how black players are perceived at grass roots level. on the wings, guys like milner and lallana are probably thought to be tactically ahead of guys like townsend, walcott, lennon, young etc.

This is perhaps a problem of how pacey players are perceived. Rather than black vs white players/managers. As pacey white players are also not as readily considered for management roles as far as i can see. Owen, Rommedahl, Gonkjaer, Canniggia etc.

In my opinion, the tactical aspect of management is totally over emphasised (i don't feel its a skill that can be used to differentiate the abilities of managers). Also, im a strong believer that guys like Johnson and Walker are actually tactically very adept. The reason that they are often caught out is because of the way they play. And they position themselves differently because they are so fast. But thats another debate.
 
Managers that haven't played at a high level themselves are often overlooked as well. We need a rule for them too.
 
Neymar said:
i think another reason why we see less black managers proportionately, is because of how their playing styles are perceived.

ie. A lot of black players are pacey players (proportionately). And often pace is a big part of their game. Often for these types of players, there is a perception that they lack other skillsets such as "tactical nouse", which are thought to be paramount in a football managers role.

if we go through england players and compare white players to their black counterparts, i hope it illustrates my point:

terry/rio jagielka/lescott baines/cole - comparing these defenders, im sure most people would feel that the white players are tactically superior, whilst the black players are the better athletes.

at rb, all of johnson, walker, richards are perceived as tactically incept

almost all of our cm's are white. i think this suggests that there are perhaps massive problems with how black players are perceived at grass roots level. on the wings, guys like milner and lallana are probably thought to be tactically ahead of guys like townsend, walcott, lennon, young etc.

This is perhaps a problem of how pacey players are perceived. Rather than black vs white players/managers. As pacey white players are also not as readily considered for management roles as far as i can see. Owen, Rommedahl, Gonkjaer, Canniggia etc.

In my opinion, the tactical aspect of management is totally over emphasised (i don't feel its a skill that can be used to differentiate the abilities of managers). Also, im a strong believer that guys like Johnson and Walker are actually tactically very adept. The reason that they are often caught out is because of the way they play. And they position themselves differently because they are so fast. But thats another debate.
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I think you might be tying yourself up in your own prejudgements now;

Are you SERIOUSLY saying that Terry would be considered the more tactical one in his partnership with Rio?? Terry, the archetypal throw-body-in-the-way-where-it-hurts bulldog vs Rio who read the game so well that allied with his pace hardly had to make a sliding tackle in his prime??

Are you then going to tell me that Ledley King was the less tactically adept one in his partnership with Michael Dawson as well??
Cole less tactically capable than Baines who got taken apart by Italy (which was NOT due to his pace)?? LOL LOL

Raheem Sterling is considered one of the brightest and most skilful prospects in Europe right now. I don't think anyone sees him as 'tactically limited' (even if some may think he is overrated).

Milner and Lallana are just seen as better players than Walcottt et al in cm positions; I'm almost certain that they are not seen as 'tactically superior' by most. LOL

Steven Gerard and Wayne Rooney have had many critics who say that they have a lot of skill and 'heart' but have often lacked tactical nous, tearing around the pitch doing their thing (thinking that they can o things all by themselves) but leaving their teams exposed. In recent times Stevie Me has improved a bit in this regard (possibly simply because he recognises he hasn't got the legs to anymore). This was one of Rafa Benitez' biggest conundrus when managing Liverpool: how to work out a system that meant Stevie Me's tactical indiscipline/lack of nous didn't leave his team exposed, hence he often played him behind Torres or nearer the wing.

I think it is YOU that think's the these white players have more 'tactical nous' as a general rule, WALOB
 
Neymar's posts on this thread are on another level, I'm not even tempted to pick them apart...Just wow...

I agree with Mourinho on this one, if you're the best, you'll get the opportunity, and we'll see more and more successful black managers in the future as time goes on.

In the same way with Barack Obama, it'll be great when a black manager wins the premier league because for some reason it takes these milestones to be broken for race not to be considered. I have no idea how the Rooney Rule will help us get to this stage though, positive or negative, discrimination is discrimination and I really do wonder how Ince would feel sat in an interview for the Chelsea job because they had to tick the token quota but knew he wouldn't have a ****ing chance of getting the job.

There's already a lot wrong with football, but having a minimum quota of interviews for candidates with a specific colour of skin or ethic background is just utterly ****ing ludicrous as an idea for moving forwards and isn't going to solve anything.
 
Seriously **** off - English clubs' managerial hiring processes are "unfair, exclusive and discriminatory", according to anti-racism charity Kick It Out.
 
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